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 Cypher-xv wrote:
When I was 8yrs old I loved RT. As I got older and learned what rt really was, I unlike some moved on.

I really despise this argument. Robotech is fantastic taken on it's own. Yes, it shares the first act with Macross, but using Southern Cross and MOSPEADA and the novels/comics for Sentinels it branches off and tells it's own unique story, and it is a damn good story. Loving Robotech has never kept me from loving Macross, Macross Plus and II and Frontier and many of the other things, but they are very different stories and I fail to see how you can't like both for what they are. It's much like the anime fans that refuse to watch anything english dubbed no matter how good they did the VA, just because it's "not pure".

Harmony Gold can go *bleep* themselves, but the novels and comics and toys were freaking fantastic.

 Kalamadea wrote:

 Cypher-xv wrote:
When I was 8yrs old I loved RT. As I got older and learned what rt really was, I unlike some moved on.

I really despise this argument. Robotech is fantastic taken on it's own. Yes, it shares the first act with Macross, but using Southern Cross and MOSPEADA and the novels/comics for Sentinels it branches off and tells it's own unique story, and it is a damn good story. Loving Robotech has never kept me from loving Macross, Macross Plus and II and Frontier and many of the other things, but they are very different stories and I fail to see how you can't like both for what they are. It's much like the anime fans that refuse to watch anything english dubbed no matter how good they did the VA, just because it's "not pure".

Harmony Gold can go *bleep* themselves, but the novels and comics and toys were freaking fantastic.

There's nothing wrong with liking RT. I don't mind watching new material for it. It's just for me and me only it's becoming Saturday morning cartoonish. SC didn't make me feel anything for the characters. If anything it felt contrived and desperate. When Cartoon Network wanted to produce their own anime series they didn't try to make it here, it would have fallen to the same mistakes that plague rt. Instead with their idea of what they wanted, CN went to an anime studio to help CN produce an original anime series. That way it won't fall prey to american cliché style storytelling. If HG wants to continue with rt, then get rid of the yune's and go half an half with an established anime studio. Heck Warner bros now does the same thing with their dc line up. Same with marvel with the iron man anime movie, which was great. Even starship troopers took the anime route recently. The point is non of it was made by Americans. It was done by the folks who invented the genre, not arrogant Americans (HG) who are fanboys that think they know what there doing. Tommy couldn't cut it with the anime studios so he settled for being king of the nerds to a dwindling few.

Perhaps it's been a while since I read up on the differences, but what makes Robotech so much more "saturday morning cartoonish" than the base material?

I mean, we're talking about a show that kills off (non-graphically) a main character in the first few episodes, and caps off with murdering almost the entire bridge crew. Roy Fokker's death hit me even as a kid.

It may not have been hardcore, but I can't imagine it getting away with nearly as much in the current media landscape.

It also makes it sound like Macross is super hardcore or something. Does Rick tear out the heart of his enemies with his teeth before getting naked with Lisa and then running on stage in his boxers to knock out a rocking guitar solo? :-P

Not directed at you in particular, Cypher, just something that's been rattling around in my head since the KS comments took a turn for the 'omg Macross is a kajillion times better than Robotech' recently.

I was referencing the shadow chronicles. HG didn't up their game. That cool anime style storytelling wasn't there for me. RT was epic and I agree with you that it wasn't Saturday morning cartoonish. SC didn't seem to get that. It's more like tommy made his rushed story to show in one pilot episode everything he likes about RT. He's not a creative guy.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
New stompy robot show.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=htgcz87-Wqk

The thing that irks me about the Macross vs Robotech in fighting over which is better is that when it comes to the Macross arc it's almost entirely pointless. For the majority of the original Robotech series HG didn't do squat in terms of rewriting, they did translation but they didn't add any new footage or new story elements to the series as all of that was from the original Japanese studio.

The only area where HG/Robotech had impact is how they wove the second and third series into one storyline. Even when it comes to the later series the only real contributions that HG has is re-naming characters to create a story tie-in and slipping in some edits for flashback scenes in attempt to create a continuity bridge between the series. It's not like they rewrote and reanimated every episode, they just made use of existing material and changed a few words, all of the animation work and major plot points are still directly lifted from the original Japanese material.

It's like a cook that makes a pizza with a slew of toppings, a second cook along takes it from him adds a pinch of salt, changes the name on the menu and now suddenly it's a completely separate pizza? wtf.



Also when it came down to it I could have cared less for the story, sure there were some great moments like Roy kicking it, but OMG did it suck when it was one of the romance episodes with little or no fighting. The worst was if the school bus ran late and you missed the fight scene because it was at the start of the show. It would be like missing the first half of gi joe where cobra was always winning before the last commercial break, if you missed the pay dirt fight scenes the rest didn't even matter. I watched it because it was a show about badass robots tearing stuff up, feth the romance triangle and singing.

The romance triangle and singing are pretty much the hallmarks of any Macross show. Along with aerial combat

Actually I prefer macross with all the romance and singing. I never got into gundam. I love the mecha models. It's just the shows never really appealed to me. The one I did like wasn't even in space. It was more like NAM with robots. Sorry I don't remember what it's called.

Paulson
Will you be making resin bits for the vf? I'm hoping you could help us mecha guys out to try to salvage this situation.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
Actually I prefer macross with all the romance and singing. I never got into gundam. I love the mecha models. It's just the shows never really appealed to me. The one I did like wasn't even in space. It was more like NAM with robots. Sorry I don't remember what it's called.

Paulson
Will you be making resin bits for the vf? I'm hoping you could help us mecha guys out to try to salvage this situation.

I never cared for the RT/Macross series, but I always liked the mecha and vehicles. That was why I loved the idea of this game, but not the execution.

My favorite mecha anime series is Zoids, the one with the tournaments and the Liger Zero as the main mech. The only Gundam series I liked was G Gundam.

 Cypher-xv wrote:

Paulson
Will you be making resin bits for the vf? I'm hoping you could help us mecha guys out to try to salvage this situation.

Nope. I don't want PB to see a dime of my money ever and I wouldn't touch the game with a 10ft pole.


If anything I'd play with a set of house rules and Nichimo kits or Gashphon models as it'll cost the same and I wouldn't need to support PB.

Visceral_Mass wrote:

That was why I loved the idea of this game, but not the execution.

You pretty much summed up the entire 30 year history of Palladium.

New post from Kevin on PB's forums..

Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Wave One is coming together fast now. I don’t think people realize how many components and moving parts there are to make Robotech® RPG Tactics™. Even the manufacturing broke and the factories keep telling us how much there is to be addressed. So many things to be printed, trimmed, molded, pressed, gathered, collated, packaged and boxed for shipping. There are something like four different factories (including the printer) involved in the manufacturing (rule book, cards, dice, the game pieces, instruction sheets, packaging, etc.) and tons of details and logistics to deal with, especially for the manufacturers in China. Yeow! Things change every day and bounce from good news to bad news, to good again. We feel like a yo-yo some days. But man oh man, are we excited to finally have Wave One material getting finished. Super-excited.

China even sent us a short video showing some of the manufacturing process. That’s not as exciting as it may sound, but it was certainly fun for us to see. I'll have more to talk about on this front later in the Weekly Update. Will be posting more Murmurs on a regular basis.

just think a video that he could have posted somewhere to delight and entertain his backers...

Oh! Here's the set up for the next big person/entity to point fingers at to blame.

Kevin isn't interested in entertaining or delighting those whose nonrefundable money he has. He long ago past the "believeability" point of no return when he was telling us that everything was great... until ND told him it all went to hell in a completely preventable and forseable manner (seriously, I look up what image file types I can upload and use in various programs and they never bothered asking what type to use for manufacturing??).... Everything was great and the valkyrie sprues were in the mail according to Wayne... until they found out weeks later they weren't. Everything on the minis was first "watering" then "almost perfect" until we got to see the Intro to STL Design 101 Freshman class project they planned to make.

As I stated earlier, it is best to read anything by Palladium in a voice that is 50% circus barker (Step right up! Step right up! To see the most stupendiferous miniatures the wargaming world has ever seeeen...) and 50% Dr. Farnsworth (Good news everybody! We've decided to sell minis at gencon in response to fan friend feedback before we ship any backers outside of our yesman circle anything!).

Fruit, don't take the above as directed towards you as it isn't as I do appreciate you posting it. I just don't believe anything palladium says without verifiable proof.. like.. you know.. them posting the video that makes them so happy. With the way this kickstarter has gone, the FANS will probably be the first to notice miscasts and short shots in the sprues on the video. Until then, I'm going to file this one under "BS until proven otherwise" alongside the minis construction video that we were supposed to get.

I don't think they'll post this video.

Why? Seeing toddlers chained to injection molding machines at gunpoint might upset some backers.

Don't be ridiculous; child labor is in places like Burma and Bangladesh. The video from China would show murderers, religious groups, and democracy activists that form prison populations.

Hey, at least they're finally setting reasonable deadlines.

From last week's PB Update.

Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Box Set
Retail Release Date: In stores September, 2014.

Not a single box has been announced as complete yet (last week's KS Update still had three sprues yet to begin), packing time, shipping time (including potential west coast port issues), GenCon (and it's aftermath), and shipping out to all 5000+ backers, all to happen well within the 12 weeks between now and September 31st. Because the statement has ALWAYS been backers get theirs before it goes retail. Not "will have it shipped" before. The GenCon issue is legally (if not morally) a grey area, but this is something different.

Anyway, glad they're no longer just pulling dates out of their proverbial, anymore.

I hope RTA doesn't get funded. Now there appealing to their flock in Latin America. The rt fanbase needs to realize they love macross and start enjoying the superior animation and storytelling.

The latin american flock that they screwed over by shutting down the spanish fan live action project? I hope they don't fall for it.

@Morgan: There is no legal grey area. They apply for a retailer license in Indiana to set up a booth at gencon. Selling there *IS* retail. Whether or not this ends up being yet another broken promise though is another story. I have zero faith in them not flipping the bird to backers and breaking their promise *IF* they can. With how late they're running for their 6th delivery date, even air freighting over boxes might not be done in time. I actually hope they have nothing to sell there besides max and miriya. I'd be fine with them handing out a single battlepod or veritech to demo participants though as well as taking preorders but selling full kits while the backers don't get squat likely for 1-3 months post gencon? No... not fine with that.

Max, Miriya and whatever else they run with.

Going with Pewter, maybe some resin? Who know what they'll pull out in 'omg limited quantities!' to drive the ebay resellers and LE seekers into a frenzy.

Last year they did Max and an FPA; two of the biggest things requested during the campaign that they were strangely silent about. It was basically doing their market research for them, figuring out where people in the throes of lust to give them big piles of money really wanted to be touched.

And as obnoxious as this kinda gak often is, it was kind of a 'slap in the face' to the backers to run with it for Gencon.

So if they really wanted to be donkey caves about this? This year would be a MAC II or a Super VT. If they try for one RDF, one Zentraedi figure again, not quite sure there's something that really got the people in a frenzy like the FPA did last year, but one of those plus... I guess an Officer's pod to draw in some of the Battletech crowd? They'd sell out every day, no questions asked.

Just sayin'; I'd be surprised if they didn't expand that collection of Convention exclusives this year.

 warboss wrote:
@Morgan: There is no legal grey area. They apply for a retailer license in Indiana to set up a booth at gencon. Selling there *IS* retail. Whether or not this ends up being yet another broken promise though is another story. I have zero faith in them not flipping the bird to backers and breaking their promise *IF* they can. With how late they're running for their 6th delivery date, even air freighting over boxes might not be done in time. I actually hope they have nothing to sell there besides max and miriya. I'd be fine with them handing out a single battlepod or veritech to demo participants though as well as taking preorders but selling full kits while the backers don't get squat likely for 1-3 months post gencon? No... not fine with that.

The "grey area" isn't one I'm a believer of. I personally think it's wrong. I'm just conveying the debate the PB Stockholmers were running with. That there's a difference between selling retail, and having it sold by retailers. The argument ostensibly is, PB are the creators, and therefore aren't retailers. Yes, it's bureaucratic legalese wankery, but that's what they're claiming. And given how the legal system works, and the current consumer safeguards are on Kickstarter (ie, apparently zero, zilch, zip, nada, nothing), I don't like being categorical about "legal". I thought corporate personhood was a ridiculous concept. And it's the law of the land.

Forar slapped the idea down by pointing out that means they can sell through their webstore, and fulfill that, before shipping to backers. It's IMO, a stupid argument, but I don't think even those people could see it being "In stores September 2014" before all KS participants got theirs, would be able to defend it (though lawyers still might).

You mention 1-3 months later to backers, which I think is probably accurate. But they've now made a commitment to 6 weeks after GC to retail. It's got clusterfethery written all over it.

I'm also not convinced they'll have product at GenCon, but I consider it a definite possibility. If they're intending to sell it full price to the general public (rather than have it just to fulfill backers who want to pick it up), shipping airfreight isn't an impossibility. By ship is IMO out of the question. Be interesting if they do, to see how significant the backlash is.

So I placed these on the FB page and was asked to share here.

So Battlepods are pretty much as expected too. They have a few options for stances and variety but not many. The top turrets are all interchangeable which means you can buy an Arty Pod pack and use extra missile parts to make more Arty Pods at a slightly cheaper price.
I think we have not see a painted or prepped Light Arty Pod mini yet.

Glaug, this is pretty much as expected and promised except the seams on the legs that have hopefully been tightened up even more but the painted ND pics and fig were as expected. The details on the legs and thighs are awesome. The bad thing is that the torso comes in two halves but does not look like it will be a problem for even newer modelers to tighten up but if it is not fixed a wash could bring that line out and make it show up when the mini is painted.

Defender, so this is kinda of a question mark. The angle of the pic, although I think they meant it to look cool, makes it hard to see what and if there are details on the arms. The leg details are pretty good. I think that the definition or separation between on the lower part of the "ammo" bins and the torso is much better defined in the KS pic than on the actual model but again this could just be a function of the angle of the pic and the lighting. When painted this could look much better with a wash. The seam right down the center of the torso and the legs will hopefully be adjusted a bit. I never liked the flat panel look on the central section so it might be a spot to put some interesting detail on to hide the seam and also give the model some pep. I never liked the way that center section drops down. I would have much preferred a look more like that of the Battletech Vulture. Here is an example.
http://image.playwares.com/bbs/data/mutiupload/image/ebe9abb3352b52efe1464b36f5bdbcfb.jpg

Here is the #1 controvesial pick of the day. Now that I look closer, it's actually not that bad. Could be just me though.

Let's start with the lesser evil as it were, the Phalanx/Longbow
First off it there is some really great detail on this mini. This was never one of my favorites and with the mechanics and the way Blast missiles work in game it can be devastating but requires a bit of luck to use properly. Now the first thing I noticed are th...e missiles, they KS shows well defined missiles while they are not as clear or well defined in the mini. I guess some careful paint and wash might fix that. The leg seams are still there but look much tighter than what we saw around Spartangate with the big gaps. Obviously Wayne is not a minis gamers because the ones he assembled were horribly done. The blast doors on the mini had those ridges defined along the edges but it might be the picture but they are not clear on the actual mini pic. Also the cockpit actually looks MORE defined in the mini than the KS pics. The last thing I noticed was the central torso has four bolt or connection markers like the entire front is a solid plate that is bolted on. Those bolt might be on the mini but they are hard to see. A well painted mini would clear much of the questionable details as a good wash and dry brush would bring a lot of that out. ( I was told later that those bolts are indeed on the mini and will come out in a wash by a fellow backer)The special missile packs and command adds look ok. As always extreme care will have to be taken cutting these off the sprue. Obviously these were not removed with that care.

Now the Spartan. The center torso has a seam. The pieces are tight but the top will require a bit of sanding unless the final mini was changed a bit. The closed door missiles shoulder pads also have a seam that may require help. The legs actually look good to me. The rear part shows a bad seam but that might be shown as a part of the design by a clever painter. Otherwise a wash could make it glow in the dark. The back and arms have a massive amount of detail, I would have gladly lost a bit of that for more detailed missile and better missile covers though. The missiles are nubs, to be fair the KS pic showed them as such but with a bit more detail or a bit more raised than we see here. Also the missile doors are one piece but are just flat. I wonder if they would have been better as designed originally with two pieces and more detail...

Pics on the painted Spartan from ND
https://www.facebook.com/NinjaDivision/photos_stream
I do see that the painted Spartan does not have a seams on the center torso so either something was done there or the torso was changed. I'd have to look back to be sure.


Veritech Battloid
The KS pic does not show the stripe detail on the chest that the mini does as well as the details on the shoulder lights. The Feet fins are less defined in the KS pic but the arms have seams and so do the legs and the feet look different. The feet also look torn off the sprue. Careful cutting will be a must. More th...an acceptable if the seams are fixed up some with the molds.

Guardian Mode
The wings look like they have more detail than the KS pic BUT the globs on the end that are the landing lights looks funny to me. The back/top thrusters look well defined and as a separate piece in the KS but is a block on the actual mini. If the seams are fixed on the arms and legs, a slight let down but again acceptable.

Fighter mode
The wings on the actual model look like they have more detail than what was shown in the KS pics. The rear fins and wings are a bit thicker, to some that is bad and unacceptable to others not so much. Not a fan of the landing light bulges myself.

Flight stands
As promised, why are people so upset? Maybe they did not see the pics that from the start show the stands were and are the same plastic as the mini. Sometimes we don't look at the details and make assumptions. Either way they are as we were promised.

Poseability (no idea if that is spelled right)
We have multiple arms but limited leg stances. Wings cannot sweep but honestly we were never shown wings that could from what I remember. They always looked solid and in the open position. I for one was not looking to pose each unit in a unique way but others want to so this is a mixed bag.

Dem Spartan seams on the arms and legs... wow. *WOW*

The arms are not that bad, the legs are. I think the seams are in a space that can at least be painted to look they they are part of the actual mini with all those ridges on the legs. Of course that means it will not look exactly like the Robotech one it you have a leg fetish. I really hope that is tweaked a bit but I think we are stuck with it as is.

Mike, did you see the minis in person? Or is the above going off of the update pics that were posted?

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/10507077_287373261443237_6754320702023835511_o.jpg

Really? Pic right/mini left arm is a horrible seam on the inside of the arm.

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/10507077_287373264776570_3818240291392998841_o.jpg

Left arm has a noticeable seam.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/10507077_287373274776569_4120867110643839563_o.jpg

Shows the seams on the torso pretty well - the paint they have on the missile bays and the red center is masking the seams there, but you can see the seams running into those areas.

@Morgan: Yeah, I posted 1-3 months mainly because we have no idea how palladium will handle the shipping from their location once they get the stuff. IIRC the EU stuff is supposed to be shipped from china to a middle man there but I'm not sure of the rest of the world. I'm also unsure of what extra staffing beyond just 1-2 ND guys and a couple of volunteers that are only going to stick around for a few days at most that Palladium will bring in. With Palladium and how this KS was run post-fundraising, common sense is out the window and anything is possible unfortunately.

The above is all off the update pics and from the KS.

Rigeld, the inside of the arm seam is there but on a mini that size I don't think it's a major problem as it is not highly visible when the mini is on the table. The Leg ones are much more visible and those are ones that I don't like. The top seam from the torso you will notice you see on the "head" if you zoom in but not on the center torso piece. If I have to zoom in that much to see it then I personally don't think it will be a major issue. Again the leg seams will be the most visible and noticeable on the table unless someone picks up you mini and holds it at eye level a foot from his face most of the other details will not come out. Although the side torsos also have seams. I think the torsos and feet are the greatest worries on this mini.

I do see them on the center torso piece. Immediately above the red part. I'm surprised you can't, and I don't have to zoom in to see them.

I didn't see the center torso one until you pointed it out. Still, if the Spartan is my only worry I can get live with it. Doesn't mean I'd be a happy camper, but I'm paying $2 each, I don't care what the retail on these will be.