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I would be interested in buying RRT stuff from disillusioned backers willing to sell for a price commensurate with what they think of the quality. That is, those who think it's crap please let me know how cheap you are willing to sell.

Did you guys get an email about your backerkit status changing or are you logging in and checking it manually? I didn't get any messages from them about a change.

I did not get an email.


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But when I logged in, I saw "Your order is ready to ship!"

 Manchu wrote:
I would be interested in buying RRT stuff from disillusioned backers willing to sell for a price commensurate with what they think of the quality. That is, those who think it's crap please let me know how cheap you are willing to sell.

I may think the new Space Wolf Santa Logan on his Murderfangwolf bathtub sleigh looks like crap but if I got one for free I certainly wouldn't resell the model for chump change just because I personally hate it. Just because a seller doesn't like something at all doesn't mean there isn't someone else out there who does. I suspect the PT Barnum quote would be the best motto for those disillusioned backers looking to sell to use. In the end, the market will determine the final price, not the level of disillusionment.


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 Manchu wrote:
I did not get an email.


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But when I logged in, I saw "Your order is ready to ship!"

Ah, thanks. I'd have to remember my backerkit password and find the old email from them to access the site to check mine but it may not be worth it. It sounds like a global change maybe from them finally importing all the shipping info now that they are starting to work on implementing their shipping system at the last second despite being 9-10 months late.

 warboss wrote:
Just because a seller doesn't like something at all doesn't mean there isn't someone else out there who does.

Naturally. But I am not interested in rescuing a disillusioned backer's investment. I just want cheaper prices, starting at more than 25% below MSRP (as offered by online retailers). All other things being equal, folks who really hate the models might be more likely to sell in that price range than those who don't.

 warboss wrote:
It sounds like a global change

Yeah, I don't think it's anything to get excited about.

 warboss wrote:
Ah, thanks. I'd have to remember my backerkit password and find the old email from them to access the site to check mine but it may not be worth it. It sounds like a global change maybe from them finally importing all the shipping info now that they are starting to work on implementing their shipping system at the last second despite being 9-10 months late.

Yes, this is the problem when you use Microsoft Project and list a timeline item as a "dependency" than a parallel operation: not getting the flag to get shipping equipment ready until product is ready to ship!
Easy explination
(Only if Palladium uses ANY type of scheduling software without breaking into a rash or just writing it down on a calendar...)
(Kevin is staying awake at nights thinking how to get this first wave out to stores without the backers knowing...)
(The two fan volunteers have unsuccessfully figured out how to knock small sprue pieces out while packing, due to all the flow joins, this is slowing things down)

 Manchu wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Just because a seller doesn't like something at all doesn't mean there isn't someone else out there who does.

Naturally. But I am not interested in rescuing a disillusioned backer's investment. I just want cheaper prices, starting at more than 25% below MSRP (as offered by online retailers). All other things being equal, folks who really hate the models might be more likely to sell in that price range than those who don't.

Not sure I understand there. There's a big difference between "rescuing a disillusioned backer's investment" and 25% below MSRP. If backers are wanting full profit, pre release, IMO that's insane. I sold a pledge last week for cost (well, a little below, once paypal took it's percentage). If I could provide the relevant safeguards, I'd sell my other one too for a similar price, but it being linked to my own account (which has 8 still unfulfilled projects) makes it harder to divest (the other one was a disposable account). But I'd be happy to sell it at cost, now, if I could.

Morgan Vening wrote:
There's a big difference between "rescuing a disillusioned backer's investment" and 25% below MSRP.

Er, of course there is? I certainly didn't mean to equate them. In fact, my post specifically contrasts them -- I am not interested in the former because I can already do better than the latter. Now that said, buying out a BattleCry may still put me over 25% below MSRP. But the relevant concern for me is how far below market (25% off MSRP) I can get. I don't care whether a backer who wants to sell makes his pledge back.

 Manchu wrote:

Morgan Vening wrote:
There's a big difference between "rescuing a disillusioned backer's investment" and 25% below MSRP.

Er, of course there is? I certainly didn't mean to equate them. In fact, my post specifically contrasts them -- I am not interested in the former because I can already do better than the latter. Now that said, buying out a BattleCry may still put me over 25% below MSRP. But the relevant concern for me is how far below market (25% off MSRP) I can get. I don't care whether a backer who wants to sell makes his pledge back.

Heh. Whereas for me, getting back my pledge amount is all I care about. I'm not interested in the speculative nature of the aftermarket. Don't care that some other Kickstarters had people paying 200-500%+ over the initial pledge. Just want back what I spent.

 Manchu wrote:

Morgan Vening wrote:
There's a big difference between "rescuing a disillusioned backer's investment" and 25% below MSRP.

Er, of course there is? I certainly didn't mean to equate them. In fact, my post specifically contrasts them -- I am not interested in the former because I can already do better than the latter. Now that said, buying out a BattleCry may still put me over 25% below MSRP. But the relevant concern for me is how far below market (25% off MSRP) I can get. I don't care whether a backer who wants to sell makes his pledge back.

I agree. I am certainly anticipating the buyer's market that will exist very shortly, especially considering the echo chambers of disappointment that have caused observers to also wish to dump their pledge before receiving/playing with product.

Ages ago, I ran a bunch of numbers, comparing the updated MSRPs to the KS prices and the listed prices that a few retailers were selling wave one pre-orders for.

All told, it looks like Battle Cry boxes were sold at around 1/4 to 1/5 retail price, with some variance present in that some items (Rick, Roy, Miriya, etc) will not be available at retail.

So, depending on the supply and the demand, there is a lot of wiggle room for people to go with. Obviously, a backer who absolutely wants out entirely could sell their entire pledge at cost (give or take a little) and walk away. Selling piecemeal becomes a bit trickier.

Miniature Market seems to be selling pre-orders on the items for around 25-40% off MSRP, but the backers got such an amazing deal I could sell at 50% off MSRP and still come out ahead while undercutting the competition.

So then we're back to supply and demand. If the demand is huge, maybe I won't need to slash my prices. If the supply is immense, I might have to trim a bit just to keep competitive, etc, etc, etc.

Other factors will come into play like some shops offering free shipping on orders of a certain size, whereas I doubt many random netizens will be doing the same (though it wouldn't surprise me either). It might become a struggle to keep prices low while accounting for shipping on boxes that, while not heavy, will probably be a pretty good size once you get a couple of expansions in them, which might keep some of the markets reasonably local, or at least in country. Shipping to the US, for example, seems to get worse every year.

 judgedoug wrote:
I am certainly anticipating the buyer's market that will exist very shortly, especially considering the echo chambers of disappointment

Should be a fun ride for those of us who are still on board. Only danger is, folks who have swung so far to despair through delays may snap back to rabid enthusiasm once product makes it to their hands.

 Manchu wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
I am certainly anticipating the buyer's market that will exist very shortly, especially considering the echo chambers of disappointment

Should be a fun ride for those of us who are still on board. Only danger is, folks who have swung so far to despair through delays may snap back to rabid enthusiasm once product makes it to their hands.

The biggest problem is if the buyer's market is too much in that favour, it can potentially have an impact on the strength/viability of the game as a whole. Normally, I'd just write that off as hyperbole, but as it stands, PB don't have the strongest of relationships with retailers/distributors. If those people are undercut significantly (because supply is outstripping demand), desire to devote shelf space is gonna slacken off, and without at least some impetus from the retail community, support for the game outside isolated groups (much like their RPG's apparently), is going to flounder. While I doubt the impact will be immediate enough, or strong enough, to affect Wave 2 (though it's not an impossibility, IMO), it may pull the plug on future generations, or alternate universes (I know several people want to see Rifts).

 Manchu wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
I am certainly anticipating the buyer's market that will exist very shortly, especially considering the echo chambers of disappointment

Should be a fun ride for those of us who are still on board. Only danger is, folks who have swung so far to despair through delays may snap back to rabid enthusiasm once product makes it to their hands.

Where is the danger in that?!?

The only thing I want out of this now is some more unseen - especially Marauders.

I originally wanted to see the game. I don't any more.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
I am certainly anticipating the buyer's market that will exist very shortly, especially considering the echo chambers of disappointment

Should be a fun ride for those of us who are still on board. Only danger is, folks who have swung so far to despair through delays may snap back to rabid enthusiasm once product makes it to their hands.

Where is the danger in that?!?

The danger for those of us who wish to capitalize upon the backers who have spent the last year calling the miniatures and game absolute gak. We can't get a pledge for pennies on the dollar from the masses of disappointed backers dumping their pledges as fast as they arrive if they decide that they in fact have done an about-face and discretely decide that the rules and minis are actually pretty good.

Figured I'd share here too. Something I did for fun.


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I'm working on some Malcontents too

Senburu (Female only club that made the stingers)
Iron Ravens(Africa)
Steel Wind
Shroud(Southlands, North)
Crimson Ghosts(Mexico + Central America)
Burrowers (Paranka) (Southlands, Argentina)
Khyron's Fist (Southlands)
Quandolma(Africa)
Lyktauro(India)
Claimers(Australia/New Zealand, Female Only)
Seylos (Factory Satellite)
New Unity (Steel Wind Remnants)

Where do these bizarre zentraedi words come from? The novels?

 judgedoug wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
I am certainly anticipating the buyer's market that will exist very shortly, especially considering the echo chambers of disappointment

Should be a fun ride for those of us who are still on board. Only danger is, folks who have swung so far to despair through delays may snap back to rabid enthusiasm once product makes it to their hands.

Where is the danger in that?!?

The danger for those of us who wish to capitalize upon the backers who have spent the last year calling the miniatures and game absolute gak. We can't get a pledge for pennies on the dollar from the masses of disappointed backers dumping their pledges as fast as they arrive if they decide that they in fact have done an about-face and discretely decide that the rules and minis are actually pretty good.

That's what I figured, but...isn't that an overly cynical approach to take here?

Would the game and community as a whole be better served by more happy customers, no matter how they arrived there?

Well, Doug and I (and other backers still excited about the product) can't make people happy about the product. But we do stand to benefit from them being unhappy.

Sure, it would be nice if everyone who backed the KS was cheery about the product but you've read through some of this thread, right? Talk about overly cynical ...

I wouldn't exactly call the rules as written good. They would be IF they tightened them up a bit and lost some of the wierd RPG baggage.

 Manchu wrote:
Where do these bizarre zentraedi words come from? The novels?

All the Malcontent Groups?

Those are from the Malcontent Uprising Novel
http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Zentraedi-Rebellion-Robotech-Lost-Generation-19-1994-by-McKinn-0345387740-/351149297682?pt=US_Fiction_Books&hash=item51c2211012


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 Manchu wrote:
Well, Doug and I (and other backers still excited about the product) can't make people happy about the product. But we do stand to benefit from them being unhappy.

Sure, it would be nice if everyone who backed the KS was cheery about the product but you've read through some of this thread, right? Talk about overly cynical ...

Totally agree

Mike is all the malcontent info coming from that single source?

If I remember correctly yes it is. I think it was all from the bands mentioned in that book.

Botoru was Khyron's and Quadrono was Miriya's, not sure about Marino.


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 Manchu wrote:
Well, Doug and I (and other backers still excited about the product) can't make people happy about the product. But we do stand to benefit from them being unhappy.

Sure, it would be nice if everyone who backed the KS was cheery about the product but you've read through some of this thread, right? Talk about overly cynical ...

Honestly I was not excited for this project until very recently when the finished sprues were shown, I read the reaction of people playing at Gencon, and the pdf of the rulebook showed up. Now I'm quite looking forward to getting my pledge and trying out the rules and perhaps purchasing models from those who are still unhappy.

Marino I made up for a 3rd option for Zentraedi.

I also plan on thinking up 1-2 more for the UEDF.

I thought you were referring specifically to these.
Senburu (Female only club that made the stingers)
Iron Ravens(Africa)
Steel Wind
Shroud(Southlands, North)
Crimson Ghosts(Mexico + Central America)
Burrowers (Paranka) (Southlands, Argentina)
Khyron's Fist (Southlands)
Quandolma(Africa)
Lyktauro(India)
Claimers(Australia/New Zealand, Female Only)
Seylos (Factory Satellite)
New Unity (Steel Wind Remnants)

I need to reread that novel. Does it go into much detail about the factions at all?

Not much, mostly mentioned them as a whole and only once or twice. It focused on 2 or 3 factions working with Senburu and the need to shut down the faction making the stingers as they started sharing them with other groups.

 Manchu wrote:
Where do these bizarre zentraedi words come from? The novels?

The Quadronos are Millia's old unit, and you'll sometimes see her name rendered 'Millia Quadrono'. iirc, it was a unit composed exclusively of Queadlunn-Rau armor units.

I don't think that information is mentioned within the series, which means that it likely came from Macross source materials.

Thanks for the answers! My question was more basic, as in where do any of the Zentraedi words (aside from proper names) come from? I have not read the novels although I do own them.