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2014/08/28 18:50:00
Subject: Robotech Kickstarter Funded at $1.44 Million!
I wonder if that is Kevin's way of sticking up for Carmen. The models really did not look good and it needed explaining one way or another. I really don't think Kevin is the terrible human being he is often made out to be, especially ITT. He strikes me as socially awkward, which is unsurprising for a professional RPG designer especially from his era. His word choice, like his larger PR judgment, does not evidence a sophisticated understanding/anticipation of other people's feelings but it also does not at least IMO evidence malice.
I thought it was supposed to fall on PB since I don't know it's kinda their job. While it does seem Gary couldn't catch a break, why would Kevin leave it to a fan friend? It's his company with six other guys he can't do it himself? Befor GC it's all he talked about, how busy he was with preparing for it yet he could organize his own games to be played? Come on now.
2014/08/28 19:21:00
Subject: Robotech Kickstarter Funded at $1.44 Million!
Personally, I have never founded and run a small RPG publisher for any amount of time much less 33 years. I can't speak about what goes into it or how it should be done. Speaking only as a customer, I was not impressed by PB's presentation at GenCon but OTOH it was about the same as any other RPG publisher there excluding Paizo (WotC did not have a booth in the dealer hall). So I am thinking of Chaosium, Green Ronin, etc. What really left PB in the dust, along with all the non-Paizo RPG publishers, were the war gaming company booths -- and not just companies like PP. To use a very relevant comparison, Soda Pop's booth looked great and seemed to be constantly busy with demos and shoppers and onlookers.
PB is really from another era and unquestionably stuck there. Imagine if your grandpa used KS to fund some project on the advice of someone your age. How do you think that would go, especially after the younger person bailed? Grandpa would default to what he's been stubbornly doing for the last 33 years.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/28 19:23:05
One main difference is that many of these awesome wargaming booths who generated huge buzz for their games (Sodapop/NinjaD, Dark Age/CMON, Dropzone, Spartan, etc) is that they all know what they're doing, and have adapted with the times.
They're all companies with experience from other major companies (for example, there's a bit of ex-privateer talent at Soda/ND, and at Cmon), while Spartan's been learning for the last number of years and recently expanded. Dropzone's guy is ex-spartan, and hit a real niche.
It's very different from grognard RPG days. Those days are dead, and it's that kind of mentality that's killing PB and companies like DP9 with their abysmal Heavy gear showing and decisions.
The way of the future is to be more like popular media. Design decisions and PR decisions modelled after for example, video game companies, making full use of both groundswell at cons and the internet are the path to success, as is the rigorous design of your physical product and a scientific approach to rules design.
That's why Fantasy Flight is a giant that hits home runs with every release, and why GW does not. Just look at the huge success Infinity has been steadily having to see that it's no accident.
2014/08/28 19:45:53
Subject: Robotech Kickstarter Funded at $1.44 Million!
Sorry grandpa = PB, not just Kevin. But that's where the hermit kingdom analogy comes in. I have a hard time believing a little company like PB is not an echo chamber (especially given what they have published over the years) and I think it's also clear most of those echoes are of Kevin's voice.
No, they have not adapted to the times -- they are the product of THIS era. Give it three or four decades. Also FFG has its share of misses but they do not linger on them (and dont' have to) like other companies.
I agree with the rest of your post, Killionaire. You cannot sell games like it's 1981. Just look at ADB, if you've even heard of it.
AND HAPPY 200th PAGE EVERYBODY!
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/08/28 19:58:00
Indeed. It has been a bit of a wild ride regarding general thread emotion (if you can call it that). The first hundred or so pages are mostly filled with elation and cautious optimism but the next hundred seem to mirror the 5 stages of grief more culminating with the acceptance during the gencon unboxing. The inflection point for me personally was the Max and Miriya debacle prior to Gencon 2013 where I realized that palladium can indeed screw this up and kick the golden goose. Eh, in the end, I'll EVENTUALLY likely sometime in 2015 have all my robotech models for the first time ever.
2014/08/28 21:21:23
Subject: Robotech Kickstarter Funded at $1.44 Million!
chaos0xomega wrote: To be fair, while Kevin and NMI sound like gak bags, I didnt get the impression that Gary was on top of things communication wise either. Reading all that, it seems like there were a lot of points in that clusterfeth that would/could/should have been avoided through some proper prior planning, which as I understand it falls on Gary as he was the one hired to coordinate everything.
He wasn't hired. He's a volunteer -_-
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
2014/08/29 02:28:32
Subject: Robotech Kickstarter Funded at $1.44 Million!
So you would say the folks selling those miniatures are experts in miniature quality?
I would say they are not new to selling miniatures and not inexperienced at that. After all, doing it for about 25 years is almost as long as GW. Do you disagree?
After MYTH? Unfortunately, yes. As I understand it, MCG had experience in making metal miniatures, but their inexperience with plastic miniature projects led to the current delay.
Metal miniatures are made domestically, while plastic ones are made overseas. Overseas, you have issues that are not local: foreign language and culture, shipping, customs, etc.
Sining wrote: There's nothing wrong with saying a paintjob is horrible if it is although I'll agree it's really PBs responsibility to make sure there are fairly decently painted minis on their demo tables.
Absolutely. In the end, PB selected these people to represent PB, so their actions reflect on PB. It's PB's responsibility to properly plan a project so that they have the right people to paint the demo figures -- and they chose the wrong people. A professional painting service would presumably have better results, and PB should have managed to project so that would happen. If this was the only problem PB had, we'd probably forgive them, but it's symptomatic of a poorly run project.
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Swabby wrote: Plastic minis could be made domestically as well.
You've got to be kidding me.
The cost of plastic manufacturing of miniatures domestically is *much* more expensive than overseas. Backers won't go for it. I'd *really* like to see the numbers of how much domestic plastics cost.
Better yet, *You* tell these miniatures companies to make plastic domestically and show *them* the numbers. Then we'd get our miniatures faster!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/29 06:07:52
We have no idea how much backers would be willing to pay for RRT metal minis though considering there are no RRT metal minis. It might well have been that RRT would still have been funded with metal minis instead of plastic ones, especially considering how fanatical Robotech lovers seem to be. Same for PB people
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
2014/08/29 06:15:03
Subject: Robotech Kickstarter Funded at $1.44 Million!
Cypher-xv wrote: I thought it was supposed to fall on PB since I don't know it's kinda their job. While it does seem Gary couldn't catch a break, why would Kevin leave it to a fan friend? It's his company with six other guys he can't do it himself? Befor GC it's all he talked about, how busy he was with preparing for it yet he could organize his own games to be played? Come on now.
Well, this *is* the same KS who left his accounting to a "friend" who embezzled whatever amount of collectibles from KS (y'know, because Star Wars toys are company property) over four years or whatever.
As for grandpa Grenadier, Ral Partha, and RAFM are the old school miniature companies I remember from 20+ years back. First two are gone, and RAFM, unfortunately, isn't doing so well. Two or so of their KS weren't funded, and their succeeding ones were Cthulhu-based (something like that). Grandpa Chaosium's KS projects haven't gone well, although I assume they were on the ambitious side (seemed like a lot of stuff made by other parties). Sooner or later, Panda manufacturing is going to make *all* our stuff.
I think the closest we're going to see of a domestically produced project for a miniatures game of a large scale would be GameZone's HeroQuest, domestically produced resin.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/29 06:19:25
Swabby wrote: Plastic minis could be made domestically as well.
This. The fact that they haven't is by choice.
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Manchu wrote: The comments at the end of the vid are a bit disheartening but the model still turned out looking great.
Agreed. Hopefully the plastic production ones turn out similar. I am quite fond of the Queadluun-Rau.
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Sining wrote: We have no idea how much backers would be willing to pay for RRT metal minis though considering there are no RRT metal minis. It might well have been that RRT would still have been funded with metal minis instead of plastic ones, especially considering how fanatical Robotech lovers seem to be. Same for PB people
Or resin ones.
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Manchu wrote: The Max and Miriya I bought at GenCon were metal.
Unfortunately, I can't buy them from over here. And they didn't offer them on the KS either.
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ced1106 wrote: I think the closest we're going to see of a domestically produced project for a miniatures game of a large scale would be GameZone's HeroQuest, domestically produced resin.
Or All Quiet on the Martian Front, as Manchu said. Or KS made with Renedra Or Reaper Bones,
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2014/08/29 06:37:43
2014/08/29 06:53:16
Subject: Robotech Kickstarter Funded at $1.44 Million!
ced1106 wrote: I think the closest we're going to see of a domestically produced project for a miniatures game of a large scale would be GameZone's HeroQuest
Again, the All Quiet on the Martian Front miniatures are plastic and are manufactured in the US.
Albertorius wrote: Hopefully the plastic production ones turn out similar.
I hope they turn out better. The Painting Clinic guy said it took him three days to get the mini ready for painting because the resin casting was so bad. He recommended not buying Max and Miriya in resin and just waiting for the plastic models.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/29 06:56:10
Manchu wrote: I hope they turn out better. The Painting Clinic guy said it took him three days to get the mini ready for painting because the resin casting was so bad. He recommended not buying Max and Miriya in resin and just waiting for the plastic models.
...oh. Wow. Well, then I do hope it too >_>
I thought they were metal, though?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/29 09:03:27
2014/08/29 12:42:00
Subject: Robotech Kickstarter Funded at $1.44 Million!
The day has finally arrived: We have begun shipping Robotech® RPG Tactics™ to backers!
The first few lucky backers may have already received their automated emails with tracking numbers. The rest will receive theirs when they ship out. This will be a lengthy process, however. We can only ship what we have, so inevitably shipments will be stretched out over the following weeks as more and more product arrives from China. But rest assured, the process has begun and Wave One rewards will begin arriving on backers’ doorsteps next week.
We got confirmation this morning that Container #2 was packed and had been trucked to the port in China today. Container #3 is scheduled to complete at the end of next week. With those two containers in our warehouse in a few weeks, we’ll have every Wave One item in quantity, and shipping will speed up considerably.
Meanwhile...
Here’s Matthew Clements, one of our writers, standing with most of the copies of the main box game we got in the first container. (We got a bunch of expansion packs, too.)
And here’s a sight we hope not to see with any more containers in the future.
Besides all that, we have been working away on Wave Two, among other things. Jeff and I had a long talk with Ninja Kai yesterday, finishing our review of the Wave Two spec sheet. We’ll continue going over the renders and engineering issues soon, but not for the next few days. That’s because first, the Ninja Division folks are at PAX starting today, but then next week, Ninja John and I will be flying to China. We’ll be visiting factories to see the manufacturing process, as well as meeting with the engineering team to go over renders of the parts and sprue layouts.
Because I’ll be in China next week, there won’t be a new Update until the week after. However, Jeff will still be in the office, answering emails and shipping out Wave One with the rest of the guys. Until then, I hope those of you in the USA have a great Labor Day holiday weekend. I intend to spend mine sleeping as much as possible until my flight on Monday morning, and hopefully getting a head start adjusting to a 12 hour time difference.
so from the sounds of it very protracted shipping container 2 is 3-4 weeks at least away counting waiting for a ship, ship travel, customs, road travel to palladium and container 3 at least a 5-6 weeks away, and I bet they alctually need stuff in container 3 for most peoples orders. But on the other hand they do have stuff in the warehouse which is something some people never really believed would happen
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/29 12:47:33
2014/08/29 12:46:13
Subject: Robotech Kickstarter Funded at $1.44 Million!
Max has always been metal. The first round of Miriya models was in resin, the later ones they made were in metal.
I may have that backwards, but I'm pretty sure it's right, as I recall some concern over a metal mini that size. In that you could probably bludgeon someone to death with it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/29 12:46:50
2014/08/29 12:56:00
Subject: Re:Robotech Kickstarter Funded at $1.44 Million!
People in the KS comments are trying to estimate the quantity they are shipping by counting boxes per pallet and pallets shown. Even the most generous math doesn't add up much more than a thousand boxes so I'm hoping they have more than they showed in just that photo.
Regardless, am I wrong to think that saying "two containers in our warehouse in a few weeks" is really optimistic? Just because your container is loaded onto a ship doesnt mean it's leaving any time soon. Those beasts don't move until they are fully loaded, then add a couple weeks for transit and a week or so for customs, and you're already at a 'few weeks' before they even ship to you from the port. Maybe i'm being too pessimistic and they have given us a reasonable date for once?
On the bright side that youtube video of the models has me actually feeling decent about what we're getting. Just about every time they post a photo of a painted mini, I get worried, and whenever I see raw pics of the models on sprue or recently assembled, i get happy again. The part count is ridiculous, yes, but at least they actually look like they have potential.
Grenadier, Ral Partha, and RAFM are the old school miniature companies I remember from 20+ years back. First two are gone, and RAFM, unfortunately, isn't doing so well. Two or so of their 
Or Reaper Bones,
