Robotech Kickstarter Funded at $1.44 Million!

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**warboss**

Manchu wrote:
Take this time to get all your other hobby projects finished. (LOL)

What do you think we've been doing since the earliest delivery date last October?

**Cruentus**

OK, here is the photo montage I took of the tomahawk. It took me about 40 minutes to assemble this, keeping in mind its the first time assembling this model. Now, I am a scale modeler and have been assembling plastic models for a long time. That being said, it doesn't look onerous.

Couple of things:
I used testor's liquid glue with brush applicator.
I did not wash the parts prior to assembly.
I had no joy with super glue.

Pros:
Little to no mold lines
Parts match up and go together fairly well
It'll pass the "2 foot test" when painted, I'm sure

Cons:
Small model pieces
Lots of half-pieces that probably could have been single bitz (legs, shoulder racks, etc.)
Gaps, many in hard to reach places (ie in recessed areas)
Have to make sure to scrape/shave before gluing
Legs and arms have little to no customizability (ie legs only attach to feet one way)
Hip joints are going to be a weak spot
Would require a bit of work to remove/fill gaps during assembly

Let me know if there are any more questions.

**Asterios**

Cruentus wrote:
OK, here is the photo montage I took of the tomahawk. It took me about 40 minutes to assemble this, keeping in mind its the first time assembling this model. Now, I am a scale modeler and have been assembling plastic models for a long time. That being said, it doesn't look onerous.

Couple of things:
I used testor's liquid glue with brush applicator.
I did not wash the parts prior to assembly.
I had no joy with super glue.

Pros:
Little to no mold lines
Parts match up and go together fairly well
It'll pass the "2 foot test" when painted, I'm sure

Cons:
Small model pieces
Lots of half-pieces that probably could have been single bitz (legs, shoulder racks, etc.)
Gaps, many in hard to reach places (ie in recessed areas)
Have to make sure to scrape/shave before gluing
Legs and arms have little to no customizability (ie legs only attach to feet one way)
Hip joints are going to be a weak spot
Would require a bit of work to remove/fill gaps during assembly

Let me know if there are any more questions.

why do you have the legs on backwards ?

Also you know this model is made of ABS plastic, which does not react well to plastic glue over time right? so being a scale modeler i'm sure you used an ABS glue right?

**Cruentus**

Asterios wrote:
why do you have the legs on backwards ?

Also you know this model is made of ABS plastic, which does not react well to plastic glue over time right? so being a scale modeler i'm sure you used an ABS glue right?

I'll double check the legs. I don't think I had them on backward according to the build instructions. If I do, that might explain some things

I"ll also blame it on trying to build it quickly over my lunch break, yeah, that's it

Nope, didn't use ABS glue. Never used ABS for any of my scale models either, and haven't noticed any problems. Hmm.

**Asterios**

Cruentus wrote:
Asterios wrote:
why do you have the legs on backwards ?

Also you know this model is made of ABS plastic, which does not react well to plastic glue over time right? so being a scale modeler i'm sure you used an ABS glue right?

I'll double check the legs. I don't think I had them on backward according to the build instructions. If I do, that might explain some things I"ll also blame it on trying to build it quickly over my lunch break, yeah, that's it

Nope, didn't use ABS glue. Never used ABS for any of my scale models either, and haven't noticed any problems. Hmm.

Well most scale models are not made of ABS, check out LEGO and plastic glue reactions to it, since LEGO is made of ABS plastic.

**Cruentus**

Yup, the legs were backward. I switched them around, they look much better, thanks for that.

I'll have to find some ABS glue, any suggestions? I don't want to have these buggers falling apart on me.

**Asterios**

Cruentus wrote:
Yup, the legs were backward. I switched them around, they look much better, thanks for that.

I'll have to find some ABS glue, any suggestions? I don't want to have these buggers falling apart on me.

several companies make an ABS glue for ABS models, check your local modeling or craft store Tamiya is a good brand, also a product called Plastruct (never used it before), there is also stuff called MEK but it is very strong(smell). some say Testor's can be used on ABS but I've found that not to always be true, with the model getting pitted and falling apart after time.

Also was wondering if the legs were on backwards so he could see where he was

**wormwoode**

My guess regarding the legs being backwards:

Probably because having a 6mm scale mini comprised of 20 pieces makes it harder to keep the finished model in mind during assembly, as you're a bit busy trying to figure out things like "exactly which half of which forearm is this 2mm bit of brown plastic supposed to be, anyway?".

Just a guess.

Also: I've been making, converting, and painting minis for a long time, and I never really know exactly which glue I'm gonna use for sure until the plastic is in my hands. Hoped these would handle testors, for simplicity sake, but I'll have to try a few different things on some bits of sprue before commiting to real assembly.

**warboss**

Cruentus, can you post a pic of the fixed model? I don't doubt the folks who found the mistake but I'm not keen enough to see it so far and would like to avoid doing the same.

So you're not supposed to use normal styrene model glue in these now?? I was planning on using the Testors model master glue I use on all my GW kits. I've never tried gluing Lego's though with it.

**Cyporiean**

The material isn't sytrene, so no, sytrene glue won't work on it.

**warboss**

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylonitrile_butadiene_styrene&sa=U&ei=MQ8LVNG8BYqdjALd34HQCg&ved=0CAsQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGPOeYdZ0hbQARPaiWc6qFGe6fyTg

It is a type of styrene (that is what the S in ABS is) and a Google search on it and plastic glue shows people recommending using "normal" plastic glue on it. That confusion is why I asked. I've never heard of the longterm pitting mentioned above and that probably worries me most.

**Asterios**

warboss wrote:
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylonitrile_butadiene_styrene&sa=U&ei=MQ8LVNG8BYqdjALd34HQCg&ved=0CAsQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGPOeYdZ0hbQARPaiWc6qFGe6fyTg

It is a type of styrene (that is what the S in ABS is) and a Google search on it and plastic glue shows people recommending using "normal" plastic glue on it. That confusion is why I asked. I've never heard of the longterm pitting mentioned above and that probably worries me most.

The problem is many people confuse ABS with Hard Plastic (like what GW uses), they are not the same material with different properties, ABS is a very new medium when it comes to miniature and rarely ever used, hazards with using like regular testors Glue on ABS over time is parts will fall off and material will become weaker and brittle, this is because of chemicals in the glue react differently with ABS then they would with other plastics, which is why we have specific glue for ABS plastics, trust me there is a reason for them, since if not needed why make it?

as it goes for a better understanding of certain glue reaction with ABS look up gluing LEGO since LEGO is made of ABS and should give you a better understanding of what glues to use and not use.

Also model glues like Testor's are a Poly-Styrene type of glue which is bad for ABS even though ABS is a type of Styrene, it is still not the same.

heres what one person said about using glue on LEGO:

Recently had to glue a lot of LEGO together for work.
•Acetone was too time consuming and did not offer a solid bond.
•Cyanoacrylate-based hobby glues with thick viscosity seemed the most effective. The only problem was, when immersed in water the clear LEGO windows fogged up. (No solution to that so far.) Zap a Gap hobby glue offered best results.
•ABS plumbing glue worked but was difficult to apply. And if too much was applied, plastic disfigured from the inside out.
•Cheap hobby glues all failed for strength, and many disfigured the pieces and were often not thick enough to offer piece manipulation before gluing your hands to it or running down your arm.
•Hot melt glue was messy beyond all hell. But worked better than silicone for sealing roofs.
•Selley's advanced quick grip (water based) worked, was strong but failed under water. Was also far too time consuming and messy.
•Also tried Parfix contact glue. Disfigured the pieces.
•Epoxy resin in self-mixing and hand-mixing varieties offered good strength, but was too costly for the job.

That's all I have tested so far, going back to Bunnings and Auto pro.

Last one I tried was a plastic welding glue for sheet plastic and acrylics. Melted pieces from the inside out. But once set, it was indestructible.

**Cruentus**

Here are the turned about legs. This time I tried Plastruct Weldene, which is a glue for Styrene. After reading the post above, I might either pull them apart, or leave them and see what happens. The glue doesn't seem to be sticking well, which could be the aforementioned incompatibility, or that there is still release agent or whatever on the plastic, since I didn't wash them before assembly.

The hip joints are very small pegs that go into a barely recessed spot on the legs, definitely a weak spot.

I think I'm done with trying to assemble these until I can hunt down some ABS glue. The Tamiya product mentioned sounds good, now I just need to source it.

Edit: I continue to be confused. On the kickstarter page, NINJAJOHN assembles some pods https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/848622?at=BAh7CDoMcG9zdF9pZGkD7vIMSSIIdWlkBjoGRVRpA%2FNSIUkiC2V4cGlyeQY7BlRJIhgyMDE0LTA2LTE5IDE2OjI5OjM3BjsGVA%3D%3D--5e37ae1c305024792aaea1d9dc762be0d3c5608a&ref=backer_project_update

And here is the relevant part: “Add the tools of the trade - we have had questions about what was needed to assemble basic kits - the plastic is really nice and glues well with both plastic cement and super glue (I used some simple miniature glue from PP) cutters, and a blade.”

So, either he has different plastic than we're getting, or he has no idea what he's talking about.

**Albertorius**

Cruentus wrote:
Here is a side by side of the destroid defender sprue (2 models per) next to a PSC 15mm german tank sprue.

I did assemble a destroid tomahawk today, and I'll post pics later when I get them off my camera. The Tomahawk (as I assembled it) was 19 or so parts for a 6mm model.

More pics this evening

Seeing as you have a sprue of what I used to state the quality I wanted to see, how would you rate the RRT sprues compared with the PSC ones, in terms of detail, sharpness and ease of assembling?

**YourSwordisMine**

Question. Where is it stated on the Kickstart page (or elsewhere) that it is ABS plastic?

EDIT: Nevermind, found it... I am blind sometimes lol

Automatically Appended Next Post:
As far as glues go. Ambroid Proweld will work with ABS plastic.

Don't use the crappy brush that comes in the lid... remove it and just use a regular brush instead. I use a size 1 Round natural fiber brush. It works well. A smaller size brush will allow you to control application a bit better. I've been using liquid plastic glues for years, so I am pretty skilled in their use. Since they melt the plastic, it can also be used as a seam/gap sealer if the gap isn't too wide. Once the glue is thoroughly dry, you can scrape/file/sand to clean the welds.

The only real downside is that these types of glues tend to evaporate really quickly, so try not to leave the lid off for to long.

Awesome stuff.

**Asterios**

Cruentus wrote:
Here are the turned about legs. This time I tried Plastruct Weldene, which is a glue for Styrene. After reading the post above, I might either pull them apart, or leave them and see what happens. The glue doesn't seem to be sticking well, which could be the aforementioned incompatibility, or that there is still release agent or whatever on the plastic, since I didn't wash them before assembly.

The hip joints are very small pegs that go into a barely recessed spot on the legs, definitely a weak spot.

I think I'm done with trying to assemble these until I can hunt down some ABS glue. The Tamiya product mentioned sounds good, now I just need to source it.

Edit: I continue to be confused. On the kickstarter page, NINJAJOHN assembles some pods https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/848622?at=BAh7CDoMcG9zdF9pZGkD7vIMSSIIdWlkBjoGRVRpA%2FNSIUkiC2V4cGlyeQY7BlRJIhgyMDE0LTA2LTE5IDE2OjI5OjM3BjsGVA%3D%3D--5e37ae1c305024792aaea1d9dc762be0d3c5608a&ref=backer_project_update

And here is the relevant part: “Add the tools of the trade - we have had questions about what was needed to assemble basic kits - the plastic is really nice and glues well with both plastic cement and super glue (I used some simple miniature glue from PP) cutters, and a blade.”

So, either he has different plastic than we're getting, or he has no idea what he's talking about.

The problem is most problems with certain plastic glues on ABS occur over time, the other big problem is while PB and ND say product is made with ABS it does not mean it is made with ABS, the best bet is trial and error, grab a couple sprue skeletons and try certain glues on them and see what works.

**judgedoug**

Plastruct plastic weld. Best plastic glue ever.

**Manchu**

warboss wrote:
Manchu wrote:
Take this time to get all your other hobby projects finished. (LOL)
What do you think we've been doing since the earliest delivery date last October?

Getting yourself into other messes, if you're anything like me.

**Davor**

Need to say it.

Now that is a real WARHAMMER!

**Merijeek**

Davor wrote:
Need to say it.

Spoiler:

Now that is a real WARHAMMER!

Wow, how mouth watering.

**warboss**

Manchu wrote:
warboss wrote:
Manchu wrote:
Take this time to get all your other hobby projects finished. (LOL)
What do you think we've been doing since the earliest delivery date last October?
Getting yourself into other messes, if you're anything like me.

That is one reason why xwing is so great! (besides the rules). You can go crazy buying and not dig yourself further into a hobby hole.

**Sining**

Is the mini....slanted quite a far bit to one side?

**Cypher-xv**

Sining wrote:
Is the mini....slanted quite a far bit to one side?

The legs are backwards. I believe he's fixed it since.

**Mike1975**

Deleted

**Korias1004**

Quick question: Under my pledge manager it shows that I pledged 180 for battlecry, but only have the battlecry option there. I know when we were able to do the survey I selected the SDF-1 Resin kit (or so I thought). Does that not show up even if I selected it, or did I forget and now I'm boned?

Thanks

**Mike1975**

Korias1004 wrote:
Quick question: Under my pledge manager it shows that I pledged 180 for battlecry, but only have the battlecry option there. I know when we were able to do the survey I selected the SDF-1 Resin kit (or so I thought). Does that not show up even if I selected it, or did I forget and now I'm boned?

Thanks

Screenshot?

**Cypher-xv**

Korias1004 wrote:
Quick question: Under my pledge manager it shows that I pledged 180 for battlecry, but only have the battlecry option there. I know when we were able to do the survey I selected the SDF-1 Resin kit (or so I thought). Does that not show up even if I selected it, or did I forget and now I'm boned?

Thanks

I ordered the sdf-1 myself and it shows on my backer kit. If you were only charged $180 then it looks like the site for whatever reason didn't count your add on.

**Mike1975**

Might have to contact PB

**Korias1004**

Craaaappp

Thanks.

I'm sure they'll be super happy to help the guy who doesn't want to invest anymore money in them, and wants to hoc their stuff on ebay. =D

*Edit* Just messaged them. We'll see what their response will be...hope they don't go back through the comments section...*/edit*

**Mike1975**

LOL, nobody ever said you had to tell them that though.