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So FFG doesn't call it a miniatures game in my purely fantasy world where there's an experienced company at the helm here.

ffs.

Sooo... anyone get their stuff yet? I want my stuff thouht they were supposed to have started shipping wave 1 by now?

Best we can tell, they're just shipping core boxes, which seem to make up ~5% or less of the orders.

"What about the other 95%?" you might be asking.

Best we can tell... they can't until container #2 arrives.

"Well, when is that?" you might ask again.

Fethed if I know. Maybe the end of September? Maybe mid October if they get tagged by customs again.

 Forar wrote:
So FFG doesn't call it a miniatures game in my purely fantasy world where there's an experienced company at the helm here.

ffs.

They could try but they'd be much more open to a lawsuit than Tactics. The Risk is likely too high for most companies to want to touch it, especially given past history. Tactics can prove it is an offshoot of the RPG. So your back to PB or nothing.

Why would FFG be more open to a lawsuit?

O.o

Because of the license not being attached to anything at all unlike PB and the RPG


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Doing a minis game, saying it is something else, and not being able to prove it makes a BIG difference in a lawsuit vs. having a game with stats and rules taken directly from the RPG

... why are you even talking about a lawsuit?

"Not attached to anything?"

This is notably a WHAT IF? scenario where presumably FFG would have some tidy little license to create the game in conjunction with HG.

For feth's sake, I'm not imagining a world where they 'go rogue' and just make one regardless of what HG says.

Man, you're better than this. Try to keep up.

IF FFG HAD A LICENSE FROM HG IN A FULLY LEGAL FASHION TO MAKE A GAME USING THE ROBOTECH IP, I THINK IT'D GO BETTER THAN THE CLUSTERFETH THAT HAS BEEN PB'S EFFORTS.

DO I NEED TO DRAW THIS IN CRAYON?

Merijeek wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:

 Balance wrote:
The book also mentions Palladium's general policy of not letting books go out of print whenever possible. Presumably there's an exception for some really outdated stuff and licensed works once the license expires, but I do wonder if this contributes to the general reluctance to upgrade the core RPG rules.

I wonder if Kev is aware of scanning in material through an OCR if he has no original electronic formatting.
Actually, I really do not want to know.

Can someone explain to me what "The book also mentions Palladium's general policy of not letting books go out of print whenever possible. " means?

Like, why is that significant? Because he needs to keep his catalog at a certain minimum size for publishing purposes or what?

All material remains 'relevant' which limits designer's ability to innovate or advance the mechanics.

Consider D&D vs. RIFTS:

D&D is on version 5 (which is actually something like 10 depending on how you want to count). Rifts is still essentially at version 1, with some 'offshoots' like the Chaos Earth sub-setting. Robotech is essentially version 2, and that took losing and regaining the license! Today's D&D writing team doesn't have to consider the impact of a current book on the older material, or write to integrate with those rules. If you got a contract to write RIFTS: Your Home Town you'd be responsible for consistency with material dating back to 1990 that is still the core of the game.

Now, it should be said that PB is undeniably successful, for a specific definition of successful. They just do a lot of things that are against the 'accepted wisdom' of the rest of the industry and do (generally) tread water.

Because you're not allowed to disagree with him?

You assume HG would or does have the ability to do a Miniatures game license. From what I understand, they do not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
IF FFG HAD A LICENSE FROM HG IN A FULLY LEGAL FASHION TO MAKE A GAME USING THE ROBOTECH IP, I THINK IT'D GO BETTER THAN THE CLUSTERFETH THAT HAS BEEN PB'S EFFORTS.

DO I NEED TO DRAW THIS IN CRAYON?

But if you want to talk of imaginary things than yes FFG could license it and the SDF-1 could crash tomorrow on an Island we can rename Macross and this would all be moot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sining wrote:
Because you're not allowed to disagree with him?

Oh, he can disagree, but assuming that I'm as close minded as others because I do would be foolish. Just as me assuming your completely close minded would be.

He's giving a hypothetical scenario where it would be awesome if FFG could do this game. However, you're trying to throw what you think are real world scenarios of what would go wrong; of which a lot of legal information hasn't even BEEN verified, at him. Dude, just let him have his fantasy

 Forar wrote:

IF FFG HAD A LICENSE FROM HG IN A FULLY LEGAL FASHION TO MAKE A GAME USING THE ROBOTECH IP, I THINK IT'D GO BETTER THAN THE CLUSTERFETH THAT HAS BEEN PB'S EFFORTS.

DO I NEED TO DRAW THIS IN CRAYON?

Let me see...

Do you work for Palladium Books? NOPE
Do you work for Harmony Gold? NOPE
Do you work for Fantasy Flight Games? NOPE
Do you own your own game company? NOPE
Do you even work for a game company? NOPE (I'm assuming this, so correct me if I'm wrong)
Do you have a box of Crayons? YUP (again, I'm assuming based on your own words)

What you think, about what company could have done this better, is an uninformed opinion.

Go start a KS, get $1.4M, and create your own miniature line, and do it successfully, on time.

At that point, and no earlier, will I and many others take anything you say in regards to this seriously Until that day, you just come across like... well, something not very nice, I don't want to flame you personally, as I know in real life you are NOT the same person you are on the internet.

Sining wrote:
He's giving a hypothetical scenario where it would be awesome if FFG could do this game. However, you're trying to throw what you think are real world scenarios of what would go wrong; of which a lot of legal information hasn't even BEEN verified, at him. Dude, just let him have his fantasy

That's all it is and I'll leave hit to it.

I actually think the whole attack wing/x-wing game system is horribly simplistic and silly, without even a hint of logic within it. It plays more like risk than world in flames. I like the miniatures, so I accept it, but I would *NOT* call FFG a company that is "good at creating games".

Heck, even the miniatures. They do look good, and are pre-painted, but look really close and they don't look as good anymore. Exception of the new corvette, it looks great though.

Bad_Syntax wrote:

 Forar wrote:

IF FFG HAD A LICENSE FROM HG IN A FULLY LEGAL FASHION TO MAKE A GAME USING THE ROBOTECH IP, I THINK IT'D GO BETTER THAN THE CLUSTERFETH THAT HAS BEEN PB'S EFFORTS.

DO I NEED TO DRAW THIS IN CRAYON?

Let me see...

Do you work for Palladium Books? NOPE
Do you work for Harmony Gold? NOPE
Do you work for Fantasy Flight Games? NOPE
Do you own your own game company? NOPE
Do you even work for a game company? NOPE (I'm assuming this, so correct me if I'm wrong)
Do you have a box of Crayons? YUP (again, I'm assuming based on your own words)

What you think, about what company could have done this better, is an uninformed opinion.

Go start a KS, get $1.4M, and create your own miniature line, and do it successfully, on time.

At that point, and no earlier, will I and many others take anything you say in regards to this seriously Until that day, you just come across like... well, something not very nice, I don't want to flame you personally, as I know in real life you are NOT the same person you are on the internet.

6 posts on dakka and you're the 2nd person on my ignore list. That has to be a new record! You *REALLY* should take your own advice. BTW, you don't need to be a plumber or gastroenterologist to know what that steaming pile of smelly brown stuff on your doorstop is (which is the best way I can describe how Palladium has handled the post-Kickstarter period).

*facepalm*

The conversation started about HG's own brand name being so toxic that it didn't matter that PB's was a steaming pile as well.

I postulated that, with a quality company at the helm instead, it might in fact be possible to overlook that issue, as long as they shut up and just collected piles of money while an awesome crew tackled the project. This was entirely intended as a wistful 'what if', which I feel was pretty clearly noted.

And then we got to lawsuits and 'can't do miniatures' and wow... wow.

For people so very emotionally attached to a sci-fi IP about giants from space attacking fighter jets that turn into robots, there is a shocking lack of ability to imagine stuff outside of reality going on in here between Mike and BS.

 warboss wrote:

6 posts on dakka and you're the 2nd person on my ignore list. That has to be a new record! You *REALLY* should take your own advice. BTW, you don't need to be a plumber or gastroenterologist to know what that steaming pile of smelly brown stuff on your doorstop is (which is the best way I can describe how Palladium has handled the post-Kickstarter period).

YES! I should get an avatar or something for that!!! I mean, how cool is it to only need 6 posts!

Oh damn, I ignored somebody yesterday when I only had a couple posts. I didn't tell them though, that'd be trolling

Since he has like a bazillion posts, I guess saying "You suck, now I ignored you" is a cool way to get the last word in!

I wish that'd work in real life, I could think I'm the smartest person EVER because I always had the last word!

Woot.

I'm just tired of people passing judgement who don't know the whole story.

Heck, just passing judgement and spewing forth hate to anybody online is flat out stupid. I get caught up in it sometimes too, and when I catch myself I usually say "this is stupid, none of this matters one bit, none of these people even live near me and have ZERO impact in my life.... why not go do something more constructive?" and bugger off.

But having actually spoken with the PB guys in person, for a really long time, and insulting products to their face (which they took extremely well), they still let me go behind the scenes, take many pictures nobody else did, and even gave me a boxed set to demo for people.

They are not bad people, and if you choose to be rude (complaining is one thing, personal attacks is another completely) to them when they have never done anything to you personally, shows some hypocrisy at levels rarely seen outside of governments and fox news.

Well I can also postulate that the SDF-1 will appear tomorrow. It would have the same entrancing effect of your wistful FFG approach.

 Forar wrote:
*facepalm*

Uhhh, Hi Forar, you do realize you are in here, whining with the rest of us right?

Just checking, I think you may have forgotten.

Bad_Syntax wrote:
I actually think the whole attack wing/x-wing game system is horribly simplistic and silly, without even a hint of logic within it. It plays more like risk than world in flames. I like the miniatures, so I accept it, but I would *NOT* call FFG a company that is "good at creating games"..

No offense but while the xwing system itself is simplistic; which helped make it VERY very easy to pick up, the game is hardly like risk.Also, FFG seems to make games that are popular with quite a few people if the queues at Gencon for them and their demos are any indication, which may be a way of indicating that they indeed are good at creating games

The Forar avatar is looking more and more our mascot for this thread:

We want our stuff!! Arrrrggg!!! Grrr!!!

Just getting core kits, kinda maybe, not sure...

May have to wait for more slow-boat-from-China stuff before I get mine!!!!!!

Bloody PB taking this long... all their fault...

So many tiny fiddly bits with seams... will I suck at building them???

HG stupid "miniature' licensing not making any sense...

White Knights showing up and telling us we do not "understand" the business... as if... watch me punk...

Why could not FFG had handled this? If they can make GW look good and deal with Disney... they are GODS!!!

I want my stuff now... now I tell you.

Sining wrote:

Bad_Syntax wrote:
I actually think the whole attack wing/x-wing game system is horribly simplistic and silly, without even a hint of logic within it. It plays more like risk than world in flames. I like the miniatures, so I accept it, but I would *NOT* call FFG a company that is "good at creating games"..

No offense but while the xwing system itself is simplistic; which helped make it VERY very easy to pick up, the game is hardly like risk.Also, FFG seems to make games that are popular with quite a few people if the queues at Gencon for them and their demos are any indication, which may be a way of indicating that they indeed are good at creating games

Oh sure, I totally agree, it is popular, and I do see how that is appealing to gamers today.

I'm probably just too old school. It didn't bother me to read a bunch of rules and have to use some tables to look stuff up. Gamers these days want simple+fast, instead of detailed+slow, and I'm still living in the past.

But sometimes, the quick and fun games are a nice change. However, I grow tired of them much faster and they don't have the life to me over games like SFB or Battletech.

Disclaimer: These are all just my opinions on it, and have no relevance to your own.

Sining wrote:

Bad_Syntax wrote:
I actually think the whole attack wing/x-wing game system is horribly simplistic and silly, without even a hint of logic within it. It plays more like risk than world in flames. I like the miniatures, so I accept it, but I would *NOT* call FFG a company that is "good at creating games"..

No offense but while the xwing system itself is simplistic; which helped make it VERY very easy to pick up, the game is hardly like risk.Also, FFG seems to make games that are popular with quite a few people if the queues at Gencon for them and their demos are any indication, which may be a way of indicating that they indeed are good at creating games

I agree, the system, from what I have seen, looked like fun. The minis seemed to costly for my taste thought. Especially with RTT coming.

Bad_Syntax wrote:
However, I grow tired of them much faster and they don't have the life to me over games like SFB or Battletech.

It is even happening with Battletech: Look up Alphastrike. We are already massing our models for an enormous scrap...

Alpha Strike had some MAJOR flaws with V1 that quickly needed to have an errata. The movement modifier always having effect being the primary culprit.

 Mike1975 wrote:
Alpha Strike had some MAJOR flaws with V1 that quickly needed to have an errata. The movement modifier always having effect being the primary culprit.

They came out with a Companion that fixes many of the "bugs" with v1.

I don't like the movement modifier either, it assumes units always move at their top speeds which doesn't happen in the tactical game. I think I had recommended -2 to it or something a while back.

I don't like the all-or-nothing damage either. My fix was to assume 7 on the missile hit table for your damage, then +/- the margin of success/failure of your to-hit roll to that to see actual damage done.

But Battletech is still played far more than Alpha Strike.

Yet one more thing the Battletech universe now has in it, making it the most complete game system *ever*. /end battletech plug

Heck, I am surprised how many games now that tape measures and counting are too hard for. Now you get really big squares, movement has been simplified to nothing, and the games are barely more than playing with green army men. I think in 20 they'll come out with some game called 'checkers', with almost no rules, everybody will be able to quickly pick it up, it'll be quick to play, and it'll take over gaming tables everywhere.

Yeah, Tal. The next update (tonight, tomorrow, whenever Wayne has the time) will hopefully have a lot to say.

I'm not expecting it. This is PB we're talking about here. But whether they talk about it or not, there *should* be a ton to say. Container 2, progress of shipping, the results of his trip, wave two, etc, etc, etc.

Bad_Syntax wrote:

 Mike1975 wrote:
Alpha Strike had some MAJOR flaws with V1 that quickly needed to have an errata. The movement modifier always having effect being the primary culprit.

They came out with a Companion that fixes many of the "bugs" with v1.

I don't like the movement modifier either, it assumes units always move at their top speeds which doesn't happen in the tactical game. I think I had recommended -2 to it or something a while back.

I don't like the all-or-nothing damage either. My fix was to assume 7 on the missile hit table for your damage, then +/- the margin of success/failure of your to-hit roll to that to see actual damage done.

But Battletech is still played far more than Alpha Strike.

Yet one more thing the Battletech universe now has in it, making it the most complete game system *ever*. /end battletech plug


Heck, I am surprised how many games now that tape measures and counting are too hard for. Now you get really big squares, movement has been simplified to nothing, and the games are barely more than playing with green army men. I think in 20 they'll come out with some game called 'checkers', with almost no rules, everybody will be able to quickly pick it up, it'll be quick to play, and it'll take over gaming tables everywhere.

Yeah, the fix is optional, should have been in the original, lack of playtesting, but I have both books and have been looking at playing to compare to RTT.

 Forar wrote:
Yeah, Tal. The next update (tonight, tomorrow, whenever Wayne has the time) will hopefully have a lot to say.

I'm not expecting it. This is PB we're talking about here. But whether they talk about it or not, there *should* be a ton to say. Container 2, progress of shipping, the results of his trip, wave two, etc, etc, etc.

Forar, you should stop talking because you don't know what it is like to post on the internet! Have you ever posted an update to the series of tubes? If you've never communicated electronically like Palladium does now in the modern age then you don't know how difficult it is for them to not use a typewriter ribbon or copper wires. For all we know, Wayne may still be rejigging his internets after his trip from the ancient land of Chi'in. Until you've tweeted from that faraway land (and I'm not talking about Chinatown in Toronto!), you just have no right to comment about whether palladium should post!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mike1975 wrote:
Well I can also postulate that the SDF-1 will appear tomorrow. It would have the same entrancing effect of your wistful FFG approach.

Don't be ridiculous, Mike. Everyone knows the Zor's ship crash landed years ago just like the cartoon said and caused the Bali Tsunami. The government has just been secretly hiding that fact and building 40ft tall veritechs in Argentina to combat the future alien threat. Some footage in spanish was leaked earlier this year but was taken down by a shadowy organization. I also have heard a rumor that the full scale mecha they're building have a smaller parts count than the Palladium ones and less seams.

Wait, let me fire up the wax paper machine so I can perfectly lay out two columns of solid gold in 140 characters and then have someone tweet it 'at' people.

Man, did you ever see the shenanigans that went over in regards to just having a general email account to send queries and issues to? I had, like, 3 people tell me it was being passed up the line but that their help desk system is totally just as good! Totally!