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 judgedoug wrote:

Asterios wrote:

And i'm sick and tired of People supporting the product at the expense of those who face it were not happy with it, I've already seen the product up close a friend of mine got his and it is now sitting in my closet to be gotten to some time in the far far future, but from what I've seen he had 5 pieces that broke off the sprue the Zentraedi stuff looks simple and clean while the UEDF stuff looks like a Rube Goldberg nightmare.

If you have a Battlecry, I will give you $140 for it plus shipping.

I have a few Battle Cry's coming and will have them sit in my closet till I decide to do something about them. which is no time soon. as it goes still have thousands of minis to assemble from other game companies still.

 Conrad Turner wrote:

ABS=

A Acrylonitrile
B Butadiene
S Styrene

Now the exact properties depend on the blend of those 3 ingredients when they polymerise it, but the Butadiene is a rubber. Styrene is what they polymerise to make Polystyrene. Butadiene is used to give impact resistance to the plastic (Make it less brittle) and allow a certain 'snap' which will return parts to their original shape if not bent too much. If you go past this point, however, the Styrene behaviour will come to the fore and you will be left with the same bent spear syndrome that your GW models suffer from.

The easiest way to enhance their resistance to becoming brittle, PS and ABS alike, is to prevent them being affected by UV light, which we generally do by .......... painting them.

Okay, excellent! I didn't know most of that. So the Robotech plastic is definitely harder, straight up, than the Warlord sprues I was comparing them to. If they are also not brittle, then I'm quite happy with the plastic.

OH! THIS MORNING on my way out to work, though, I grabbed a sprue, and bent it so that it turned white, and then let it go - it went back to shape and the whiteness went away. Would that mean, then, that it has a high amount of Butadiene?
That bodes REALLY well for dropping minis like Regults.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asterios wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

Asterios wrote:

And i'm sick and tired of People supporting the product at the expense of those who face it were not happy with it, I've already seen the product up close a friend of mine got his and it is now sitting in my closet to be gotten to some time in the far far future, but from what I've seen he had 5 pieces that broke off the sprue the Zentraedi stuff looks simple and clean while the UEDF stuff looks like a Rube Goldberg nightmare.

If you have a Battlecry, I will give you $140 for it plus shipping.

I have a few Battle Cry's coming and will have them sit in my closet till I decide to do something about them. which is no time soon. as it goes still have thousands of minis to assemble from other game companies still.

I'll buy what's in your closet right now. Could you take a picture and post so we can see which pieces broke off the sprue?

 judgedoug wrote:

 Conrad Turner wrote:

ABS=

A Acrylonitrile
B Butadiene
S Styrene

Now the exact properties depend on the blend of those 3 ingredients when they polymerise it, but the Butadiene is a rubber. Styrene is what they polymerise to make Polystyrene. Butadiene is used to give impact resistance to the plastic (Make it less brittle) and allow a certain 'snap' which will return parts to their original shape if not bent too much. If you go past this point, however, the Styrene behaviour will come to the fore and you will be left with the same bent spear syndrome that your GW models suffer from.

The easiest way to enhance their resistance to becoming brittle, PS and ABS alike, is to prevent them being affected by UV light, which we generally do by .......... painting them.

Okay, excellent! I didn't know most of that. So the Robotech plastic is definitely harder, straight up, than the Warlord sprues I was comparing them to. If they are also not brittle, then I'm quite happy with the plastic.

OH! THIS MORNING on my way out to work, though, I grabbed a sprue, and bent it so that it turned white, and then let it go - it went back to shape and the whiteness went away. Would that mean, then, that it has a high amount of Butadiene?
That bodes REALLY well for dropping minis like Regults.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asterios wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

Asterios wrote:

And i'm sick and tired of People supporting the product at the expense of those who face it were not happy with it, I've already seen the product up close a friend of mine got his and it is now sitting in my closet to be gotten to some time in the far far future, but from what I've seen he had 5 pieces that broke off the sprue the Zentraedi stuff looks simple and clean while the UEDF stuff looks like a Rube Goldberg nightmare.

If you have a Battlecry, I will give you $140 for it plus shipping.

I have a few Battle Cry's coming and will have them sit in my closet till I decide to do something about them. which is no time soon. as it goes still have thousands of minis to assemble from other game companies still.

I'll buy what's in your closet right now. Could you take a picture and post so we can see which pieces broke off the sprue?

pieces that broke off were a head, couple arm pieces and a couple missile groups, all UEDF stuff, looks like a sprue or something got jammed in there and popped them off. many of my friends still want to buy whats in my closet, like I said I still have a lot of stuff to build and will get to stuff when I get to it, which is why I wasn't too concerned when I would get my stuff, hell I probably won't get my own pledge till next month or so, also its why i'm not a big KS backer, only backed this robotech one cause a fan of the show.

Asterios wrote:
i'm sick and tired of People supporting the product at the expense of those who face it were not happy with it

This thread is full of WTF moments. We've got at least one poster who thinks PB is out to get him personally, people complaining about how the sprues are arranged in the box, and now you are telling me that pointing out how ridiculous these claims are is "at the expense of those who face it were not happy with it." The fact is, you only made a Dakka account to complain ITT. And it really shows. For example:

Asterios wrote:
as to B_S's clip, if you watched the video, he doesn't say it broke off, he says he just broke it as he picked it up

No. No, he doesn't. This is an example of making something up to complain about it. Not only did he NOT say that in the vid but he also even clarified in the comments to that vid -- which I posted and you ignored.

Asterios wrote:
furthermore shall we talk about B_S's views of the so called "Laminated" cards ?

Furthermore, shall we talk about how I agree with him?

 Manchu wrote:
The cards feel a bit flimsy to me so I think they should be laminated for durability as well as to write on.

 Manchu wrote:
Yeah, I would really like a PDF and will probably end up making something myself. I just don't think the cards will hold up in play.

 judgedoug wrote:
That bodes REALLY well for dropping minis like Regults.

You will not be surprised to hear that I have already dropped one and it did not break. I figured one of those guns would have snapped off but thankfully it did not. Not saying I would ever do it on purpose or that it wasn't just a case of getting lucky.

 Manchu wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
That bodes REALLY well for dropping minis like Regults.

You will not be surprised to hear that I have already dropped one and it did not break. I figured one of those guns would have snapped off but thankfully it did not. Not saying I would ever do it on purpose or that it wasn't just a case of getting lucky.

Honestly the plastic material is making me really happy. While I am a big resin-head, this is definitely not a product I would want resin or metal of. I can imagine scooping up hordes of battlepods - especially due to some missile volleys from Super Valkyries - and I'm optimistic that the plastic is strong enough (and the aforementioned plastic glue's bonds also strong enough) to be able to necessitate the tyranid/soviet style "figure scoop".

 Manchu wrote:

Asterios wrote:
i'm sick and tired of People supporting the product at the expense of those who face it were not happy with it

This thread is full of WTF moments. We've got at least one poster who thinks PB is out to get him personally, people complaining about how the sprues are arranged in the box, and now you are telling me that pointing out how ridiculous these claims are is "at the expense of those who face it were not happy with it." The fact is, you only made a Dakka account to complain ITT. And it really shows. For example:

Asterios wrote:
as to B_S's clip, if you watched the video, he doesn't say it broke off, he says he just broke it as he picked it up

No. No, he doesn't. This is an example of making something up to complain about it. Not only did he NOT say that in the vid but he also even clarified in the comments to that vid -- which I posted and you ignored.

Asterios wrote:
furthermore shall we talk about B_S's views of the so called "Laminated" cards ?

Furthermore, shall we talk about how I agree with him?

 Manchu wrote:
The cards feel a bit flimsy to me so I think they should be laminated for durability as well as to write on.

 Manchu wrote:
Yeah, I would really like a PDF and will probably end up making something myself. I just don't think the cards will hold up in play.

 judgedoug wrote:
That bodes REALLY well for dropping minis like Regults.

You will not be surprised to hear that I have already dropped one and it did not break. I figured one of those guns would have snapped off but thankfully it did not. Not saying I would ever do it on purpose or that it wasn't just a case of getting lucky.

Actually if your complaint was at certain peeps I would have ignored it but you also complained about someone who did have a legitimate complaint, and no I didn't make a Dakka account to talk bad about the project, in fact don't have much to say, wish another company did the project, but that's life, and personally I feel this project is not what was promised, not even half way promised.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 judgedoug wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
That bodes REALLY well for dropping minis like Regults.

You will not be surprised to hear that I have already dropped one and it did not break. I figured one of those guns would have snapped off but thankfully it did not. Not saying I would ever do it on purpose or that it wasn't just a case of getting lucky.

Honestly the plastic material is making me really happy. While I am a big resin-head, this is definitely not a product I would want resin or metal of. I can imagine scooping up hordes of battlepods - especially due to some missile volleys from Super Valkyries - and I'm optimistic that the plastic is strong enough (and the aforementioned plastic glue's bonds also strong enough) to be able to necessitate the tyranid/soviet style "figure scoop".

Actually PB using ABS plastic is the one thing they did right on this project, it is a strong durable material, but does come with a caveat that if you use the wrong glue bad things will happen to the minis, not today or tomoroow or even next week but eventually you will have bad things happen to your models that will make you say WWWHHHHYYYYY?

 judgedoug wrote:

Asterios wrote:

And i'm sick and tired of People supporting the product at the expense of those who face it were not happy with it, I've already seen the product up close a friend of mine got his and it is now sitting in my closet to be gotten to some time in the far far future, but from what I've seen he had 5 pieces that broke off the sprue the Zentraedi stuff looks simple and clean while the UEDF stuff looks like a Rube Goldberg nightmare.

If you have a Battlecry, I will give you $140 for it plus shipping.

I'll shoot you a PM whenever my stuff shows up.

Asterios wrote:
you also complained about someone who did have a legitimate complaint

By all means, give me the details.

Asterios wrote:
I didn't make a Dakka account to talk bad about the project

You have 78 posts as of this post; 77 of them are ITT complaining about PB and the RRT KS. Here's your only post not ITT:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/610306.page

Asterios wrote:
personally I feel this project is not what was promised, not even half way promised

Everyone is entitled to their "personal feelings" -- but I am wondering why your sig says:

Buying Robotech RRT pledges! PM me. Currently buying Battlecry for $51 ea.

Seems a little strange.

As for me, I will buy a reputable Dakka poster's Battle Cry pledge for $140 + shipping costs to me.

 Cyporiean wrote:
I'll shoot you a PM whenever my stuff shows up.

Keep me in mind as a back up. I know you are a reliable, established poster. I wouldn't consider buying a pledge from someone who only signed up to this forum to complain about a product while simultaneously offering to buy it.

Asterios wrote:

Actually PB using ABS plastic is the one thing they did right on this project, it is a strong durable material, but does come with a caveat that if you use the wrong glue bad things will happen to the minis, not today or tomoroow or even next week but eventually you will have bad things happen to your models that will make you say WWWHHHHYYYYY?

I feel that happens to many models. Such as any models glued with super glue, as super glue gets brittle over time.

What glue is the wrong glue? Any polystyrene cement (plastic glue) would work, as would super glue?
I am not a chemist, but from my understanding, polystyrene cement is acetone, chlorobenzene, or trichloroethane - that will melt/glue polystyrene and ABS.
There is also Plastruct Plastic Weld which is based on dichloromethane, that bonds polystyrene and ABS as well as acrylic (such as plexiglass)

I would imagine PVA glue, wood glues, hot glues, rubberized glues, and certain epoxies would not work very well, but who would use Elmer's all-purpose white glue on a model?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
Everyone is entitled to their "personal feelings" -- but I am wondering why your sig says:

Buying Robotech RRT pledges! PM me. Currently buying Battlecry for $51 ea.

Seems a little strange.

That was a joke, based on my previous offer to buy any disappointed backers' pledges at $50
Though my offer is also now $140. I would like another one.

 Manchu wrote:

Asterios wrote:
you also complained about someone who did have a legitimate complaint

By all means, give me the details.

Asterios wrote:
I didn't make a Dakka account to talk bad about the project

You have 78 posts as of this post; 77 of them are ITT complaining about PB and the RRT KS. Here's your only post not ITT:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/610306.page

Asterios wrote:
personally I feel this project is not what was promised, not even half way promised

Everyone is entitled to their "personal feelings" -- but I am wondering why your sig says:

Buying Robotech RRT pledges! PM me. Currently buying Battlecry for $51 ea.

Seems a little strange.

As for me, I will buy a reputable Dakka poster's Battle Cry pledge for $140 + shipping costs to me.

 Cyporiean wrote:
I'll shoot you a PM whenever my stuff shows up.

Keep me in mind as a back up. I know you are a reliable, established poster. I wouldn't consider buying a pledge from someone who only signed up to this forum to complain about a product while simultaneously offering to buy it.

Actually that was a joke cause of someone posting about buying BC's at $50, i'm just to lazy to remove it, and lets face it only talk about RRT here cause only thing to talk about, when it comes to 40K I talk about that elsewhere, and when it comes to other minis I talk about them elsewhere.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 judgedoug wrote:

Asterios wrote:

Actually PB using ABS plastic is the one thing they did right on this project, it is a strong durable material, but does come with a caveat that if you use the wrong glue bad things will happen to the minis, not today or tomoroow or even next week but eventually you will have bad things happen to your models that will make you say WWWHHHHYYYYY?

I feel that happens to many models. Such as any models glued with super glue, as super glue gets brittle over time.

What glue is the wrong glue? Any polystyrene cement (plastic glue) would work, as would super glue?
I am not a chemist, but from my understanding, polystyrene cement is acetone, chlorobenzene, or trichloroethane - that will melt/glue polystyrene and ABS.
There is also Plastruct Plastic Weld which is based on dichloromethane, that bonds polystyrene and ABS as well as acrylic (such as plexiglass)

I would imagine PVA glue, wood glues, hot glues, rubberized glues, and certain epoxies would not work very well, but who would use Elmer's all-purpose white glue on a model?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
Everyone is entitled to their "personal feelings" -- but I am wondering why your sig says:

Buying Robotech RRT pledges! PM me. Currently buying Battlecry for $51 ea.

Seems a little strange.

That was a joke, based on my previous offer to buy any disappointed backers' pledges at $50
Though my offer is also now $140. I would like another one.

talk to Mike he has a habit of setting up potential buyers with potential sellers of the Robotech game.

 judgedoug wrote:

I am not a chemist, but from my understanding, polystyrene cement is acetone, chlorobenzene, or trichloroethane - that will melt/glue polystyrene and ABS.

This is correct. When I was young and building one of my first plastic airplane kits, I smothered the inside of a two-part wing (top piece and bottom piece) in polystyrene cement. I ended up leaving fingerprints in the outside as there was so much glue on the inside that it turned the entire wing soft.

I would imagine PVA glue, wood glues, hot glues, rubberized glues, and certain epoxies would not work very well, but who would use Elmer's all-purpose white glue on a model?

White glue is actually used in model building. Polystyrene cement does Bad Things (tm) to the clear plastic that's typically used for things like windows and cockpit canopies. Elmer's White Glue will allow you to attach the piece to the rest of the kit without causing any unsightly distortions of the "glass".

 Manchu wrote:
As for me, I will buy a reputable Dakka poster's Battle Cry pledge for $140 + shipping costs to me.

I will pay a little bit more than that but I am looking for someone in the US. I've found people in Canada/UK unfortunately shipping costs are just too much.

 Dark Severance wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
As for me, I will buy a reputable Dakka poster's Battle Cry pledge for $140 + shipping costs to me.

I will pay a little bit more than that but I am looking for someone in the US. I've found people in Canada/UK unfortunately shipping costs are just too much.

LOL I suppose we ought to take it to eBay.

Battle Cry in Tampa for 275 USD starting bid:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Robotech-RPG-Tactics-Battle-Cry-Pledge-w-stretch-goals-LE-exclusives-/231354689123?pt=Games_US&hash=item35ddd06663

Here's one in Maryland at 160 USD, 22 bids so far with 4 days to go:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Robotech-RPG-Tactics-Battle-Cry-Pledge-w-stretch-goals-LE-exclusives-/201184997173?pt=Games_US&hash=item2ed78f6f35

EDIT -- scratch that , now at 187.50 USD.

Man, I should have held out and started a bidding war in this thread for mine.

 pretre wrote:
Man, I should have held out and started a bidding war in this thread for mine.

Well it was risky -- the stuff could have come and been awful. Same reason I didn't pledge for Showdown. Turns out to be pretty good though!

 Manchu wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Man, I should have held out and started a bidding war in this thread for mine.

Well it was risky -- the stuff could have come and been awful. Same reason I didn't pledge for Showdown. Turns out to be pretty good though!

Yeah, I'm mostly kidding. I'm happy that someone who is more into it got mine for a fair price.

 pretre wrote:
for a fair price.

A pretty generous price, I'd say. We'll see how the market goes but it has been selling on ebay for between 375 - 450 USD.

 Manchu wrote:

 pretre wrote:
for a fair price.

A pretty generous price, I'd say. We'll see how the market goes but it has been selling on ebay for between 375 - 450 USD.

I'll tell him he owes me a couple hundred bucks.

someone sold a base game for $200 last month but current base game on auction probably won't go for that much:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181544834606?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Eumerin wrote:

White glue is actually used in model building. Polystyrene cement does Bad Things (tm) to the clear plastic that's typically used for things like windows and cockpit canopies. Elmer's White Glue will allow you to attach the piece to the rest of the kit without causing any unsightly distortions of the "glass".

You know, I totally forgot about that, but yeah. All my SST mobile infantry had PVA glued visors, as well as obvious things like Eldar vehicles. There's no clear plastics for RRT afaik, though.

Asterios wrote:
someone sold a base game for $200 last month but current base game on auction probably won't go for that much:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181544834606?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Not with Miniature Market pre-selling it for ~77 USD, I hope, but people want it NOW I suppose.

 judgedoug wrote:
Hmm, AoW have styrene dwarf berserkers (use plastic glue) but everything else is PVC (use super glue)

That makes sense, and I probably got their PVC confused with ABS, for some reason.

 Manchu wrote:

Asterios wrote:
someone sold a base game for $200 last month but current base game on auction probably won't go for that much:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181544834606?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Not with Miniature Market pre-selling it for ~77 USD, I hope, but people want it NOW I suppose.

yeah could never understand people spending gobs of money to get products a few weeks to a month early.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
now whos book will sell faster if at all?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Robotech-RPG-TACTICS-RULEBOOK-BRAND-NEW-GenCon-advance-copy-Paladium-2014-/171489563252?pt=Games_US&hash=item27ed931274


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Robotech-RPG-Tactics-Official-Rulebook-Not-yet-released-RARE-Paladium-2014-/171491022187?pt=Games_US&hash=item27eda9556b

also notice the S&H cost on the 2nd. book, its like wow is that over night or what ?

Yeah, I think that was the literal first one to end up on ebay that was actually in hand, not a pre-sale.

With more people getting them the demand will slowly begin to drop and the supply will begin to rise. With retail also ticking away days until they should have some in hand as well, I doubt they'll sell nearly as strongly for some time to come.

Eh, it's nonsensical to the average person, but if I was the same person aside from making twice or five or ten times what I do now, I could see dropping a pile of cash to get something *in hand* rather than waiting. It's not a solid financial choice for most, but for all we know it's some 'kid' millionaire (trust fund, silicon valley, whatever) that thinks $200 is chump change.

I didn't think the rules were a strong selling point?

I'd love for this to do really well at retail though as I'd love for more Japanese Anime Giant Robot type games in this scale.

 Alpharius wrote:
I didn't think the rules were a strong selling point?

In terms of playability, I think they are fine. In the rules thread, I posted extensively about what I would change and why but if it didn't seem playable I would not even bother trying to play it. As things stand, I want to get my Zents ready for ASAP gaming using what we have concluded is RAW.

 Alpharius wrote:
I'd love for more Japanese Anime Giant Robot type games in this scale.

Yes please!

Not sure how that happened.. double post, delete this please.

PB were planning on selling the books at Gencon as well, I think for $20.

I imagine the few people with books that don't care about having them (picked up at events, from core boxes where they don't want anything but the models, etc) are just trying to get ahead of the backers all getting them.

Hell, when they start shipping out SD's and Recklesses, people will have more of the things on hand than they'll know what to do with. Presumably trying to get ahead of the curve while they're in limited quantities.

 Forar wrote:
PB were planning on selling the books at Gencon as well, I think for $20.

I imagine the few people with books that don't care about having them (picked up at events, from core boxes where they don't want anything but the models, etc) are just trying to get ahead of the backers all getting them.

Hell, when they start shipping out SD's and Recklesses, people will have more of the things on hand than they'll know what to do with. Presumably trying to get ahead of the curve while they're in limited quantities.

yeah I can see game books showing up for about $5 - $10 a pop then.

Aside from buying KS pledges, the cheapest way to get more figs is buying another base set. Lots of people will end up with multiple copies of the book.