MangoMadness wrote:
Mike1975 wrote:
You also see a lot of painted minis, people who have actually painted minis and played the game
So whats the consensus?
Great rules, nicely balanced gameplay with fantastic easy to assemble and paint models?
Not at all, just because people are happy does not mean that they are unrealistic. There have been a couple threads and reviews. People have been helping each other out with things like the screwed up arms for the Veritech in guardian mode and also on how to paint the minis.
Here is one review and them something I added
My two cents... A comprehensive Robotech Tactics critique
Initial Kickstarter: All in all the Kickstarter went along pretty amazingly with a lot of extra products being unlocked for those of us who jumped in to support at the Battlecry + levels. All of the extra miniatures definitely made the investment pay off in the long run.
Pre-Production: This is Palladium's first time stepping up to the plate in the miniature gaming market. I don't think they appreciated how many small details are involved with creating an initial production run and so, consequentially, there were delays. I for one, fully expected there to be significant delays because of the stated reasons and wasn't really shocked. Anybody out there who thinks that a first time endeavor is going to stay on a hypothetical production schedule is just naïve.....but in the end, they ended up designing a product that is quite loyal to the show and the
RPG that we all loved so much.
Delivery: Again, if you didn't think this was going to be seriously delayed, you are delusional. That said, I don't think they took the holiday mail traffic into consideration when they were putting forth their timelines. I am fortunate enough to be in the US, so things are far quicker for us than the ROW supporters, but international security makes shipping almost anything overseas extremely complicated and significantly impacts the speed of your product receipt. I do think they could have done a better job explaining that, but I'm sure the entire company is a bit frustrated with all the delays and complications themselves. They're human also.
GenCon: I know this is a point of contention for the ROW supporters but the point many people do not realize is that unless this game makes money, it will be dead in the water right now. We all want more generations of mecha, but we will never get Invid models unless Palladium Books thinks that it is worth the cost and aggravation of producing them. I know that if I knew trying to make a product would lead to a year of people calling me an donkey-cave and sending me hate mail for little to no profit, I would just say screw it. All of us were a bit delayed because of the GenCon decision, but it was a necessary evil for the good of the game.
Model Design: This is a mixed bag. In the end, after they are constructed, we have some very nice looking miniatures to push around the table. However, the parts and sprue design is clearly deficient in some areas. The Zentraedi are fairly well designed, although some of the tiny parts such as autocannon barrels and Recon Pod parts were poorly allocated on the sprue, leading to difficulty in keeping them intact. A minor and fixable mistake if you have modeling experience. The UEDF forces suffer from an overcomplication of parts that didn't need separate casting as well as a critical lack of labeling when it comes to the arm designs on the Valkyries and Spartans. This is something that can be easily addressed in future production runs, but for now it means that those without miniature modeling experience are going to be frustrated. I think that the problem is that the miniatures seem to have been approached from the standpoint that they were trying to make a product for people who want to build models, when what they were supposed to be making was a product for people who want to play with toy veritechs and battlepods on a table. Many wargamers enjoy the building/crafting portion, but for a new game on the market, the parts really should have been easier to construct. Save the complicated models for named characters and let the modeling hobbyists have their field day there.
Rulebook: Again, some really positive things and some serious problems here. Fortunately, redesigning a rulebook is much easier and far less costly than redesigning model sprues, so it's likely we will see a revision of this fairly soon. The Good: The rules are fairly well organized and the quality of the book is pretty fair. The art is nice, although it does suffer from a lack of photos of actual product, this is due to the fact that it had to be written and designed before they even HAD final product to photograph for it, so I assume future editions will rectify that problem. The fluff is nice without being overdone and the support material concerning campaigns, painting guides, etc... is a good addition. The Bad: Wargamers like to scratch build armies, and without a per-model cost, that is pretty much impossible. Additionally, the failure to incorporate CRITICAL rules about the factions or stats for upgrade options for various mecha is a tragic oversight. Cards get lost and damaged so anybody with half a brain is going to have to create their own army roster sheets so that the precious cards can be sealed away someplace for safety. Having ALL the rules in the main book is essential and absolutely needs to be fixed in the next edition.
Gameplay: Here is where they really got the high marks. I've had the chance to play and overwatch a few games. The play is quick, dynamic and engaging. Both players are actively involved at every step of a turn and all the games I've experienced have really come down to the wire in the end. The rules give you enough options to keep things tactically enjoyable without bogging you down with endless rules debates that many other games suffer from. There are a few areas that could use a bit more refining but on the whole, I give them two thumbs up on play design.
Summary: In the end, we got (or will get) a good product. It isn't perfect and some corrections are definitely needed in some areas, but for the first production run of a brand new game, it's pretty darn good. My opinion is that as long as the egos get left out of the equations, we're going to have a really diverse and fun game to play in the next couple of years, but if we truly want that, it's up to us to make it happen. This is a product that is plagued by licensing complications that make the US Tax code look organized, so the fact that the day has arrived where we can even play this is a miracle in my book. Would I have liked easier to build models, faster delivery, more comprehensive rulebook.....absolutely, but am I happy with what we have so far.......Absolutely. I'm willing to support it now because I know it will only improve from here. Then again, I've been gaming for 38 years, so perhaps age has given me a bit more patience than younger crowds.
But that's my two cents... Your mileage may vary.
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Michael Arnold
14
hrs · Edited.
After reading Max's review of the game I wanted to add something that has come up a few times. I could be wrong but I don't think so.
First off, if you have the rulebook and know how the game is set up you will also know that having the Faction rules in the book would have been a great idea. Also the cards should have been a bit bigger and easier to read. Those are two things that SHOULD have been done and were lacking.
The problem comes in on complaints on the rulebook and how it does not have all the unit costs and upgrades in it. The more I have thought this through the more I disagree with some that the individual unit costs should have been in the book.
Here is my reasoning. First Tactics is a Squadron Based game. It is not a individual figures based game. Units are moved and played as squadrons or part of a squadron. None of the individual units is played as a single entity like you will find in most other minis wargames. The problem comes from assuming that
RRT is similar to other minis games and the past history of playing games where you typically buy units individually and not as part of a larger unit. If you assume that it is like games you are previously accustomed to playing and looking for individual unit costs you won't find them.
Also keep in mind that each individual unit appears in a various squadrons and in various factions. If the rules had included the point costs for every combination it would have been messy and confusing. Keep in mind that many units have different upgrades if they are in different factions such as the VF that has multiple missile upgrades with the UEDF but only improvised bombs with the Malcontents. Now.....they should have included some force organization charts. That I think we all agree on.
Imagine the Spartan being listed with all the possible upgrades and costs. You would have to list it something like this and then do the same for every single other unit in the game!
Spartan
UEDF Brawler Squadron (Core)
70 Points
2 x Spartan
2 x Tomahawk
Spartan Upgrades
GU-11
Rng 24, MD 6, Rapid Fire (10 Points)
Shock Baton Special* (5 Points)
UEDF Close Quarters Squadron (Core)
60 Points
4x Spartan
Spartan Upgrades
GU-11
Rng 24, MD 6, Rapid Fire (20 Points)
Shock Baton Special* (10 Points)
Spartan Squad (Support)
30 Points
2x Spartan
Spartan Upgrades
GU-11
Rng 24, MD 6, Rapid Fire (10 Points)
Shock Baton Special* (5 Points)
Malcontent Light Raider Squadron (Core)
65 Points
2x Spartan
6x Regult
Spartan Upgrades
GU-11
Rng 24, MD 6, Rapid Fire (10 Points)
Z-PR MK VIII Particle Assault Rifle
Rng 12, MD 5, Accurate (5 Points)
Z-
TFG MK. V Tactical Flechette Cannon
RNG 9, MD 4, Blast, Ammo(8) (15 Points)
Z-
ML MK. II Missile Launcher
RNG 18, MD 6, Missile, Anti-Missile, Ammo(5), Volley(1) (10 Points)
Malcontent Heavy Destroid Squadron
90 Points
2x Spartan
2x Tomahawk
1x Glaug
Spartan Upgrades
GU-11
Rng 24, MD 6, Rapid Fire (10 Points)
Z-PR MK VIII Particle Assault Rifle
Rng 12, MD 5, Accurate (5 Points)
Z-
TFG MK. V Tactical Flechette Cannon
RNG 9, MD 4, Blast, Ammo(8) (15 Points)
Z-
ML MK. II Missile Launcher
RNG 18, MD 6, Missile, Anti-Missile, Ammo(5), Volley(1) (10 Points)
Malcontent Mixed Infantry Squadron
(55 Points)
2x Spartan
3x Serau-Ger
6x Gluu-Ger
Spartan Upgrades
GU-11
Rng 24, MD 6, Rapid Fire (10 Points)
Z-PR MK VIII Particle Assault Rifle
Rng 12, MD 5, Accurate (5 Points)
Z-
TFG MK. V Tactical Flechette Cannon
RNG 9, MD 4, Blast, Ammo(8) (15 Points)
Z-
ML MK. II Missile Launcher
RNG 18, MD 6, Missile, Anti-Missile, Ammo(5), Volley(1) (10 Points)
Malcontent Assault Destroid Squad
35 Points
1x Spartan
1x Tomahawk
Spartan Upgrades
GU-11
Rng 24, MD 6, Rapid Fire (5 Points)
Z-PR MK VIII Particle Assault Rifle
Rng 12, MD 5, Accurate (2 Points)
Z-
TFG MK. V Tactical Flechette Cannon
RNG 9, MD 4, Blast, Ammo(8) (8 Points)
Z-
ML MK. II Missile Launcher
RNG 18, MD 6, Missile, Anti-Missile, Ammo(5), Volley(1) (5 Points)
So the Spartan can be in any one of 7 squads or squadrons!
Now, if you want individual costs you will get something like this.
Tomahawk - 20 Points
Spartan - 15 Points
Defender - 10 Points
Phalanx - 20 Points
Monster - 40 Points
VF-1A - 20 Points
VF-1J - 25 Points
VF-1S - 30 Points
VF-1R +5 Points
VEF-1 - 30 Points
VF-1D - 30 Points
Armored VF-1A - 22.5 Points
Armored VF-1J - 27.5 Points
Armored VF-1D - 35 Points
Armored VF-1S - 35 Points
Super VF-1A - 27.5 Points
Super VF-1J - 32.5 Points
Super VF-1D - 40 Points
Super VF-1S - 40 Points
Jotun -1A - 22.5 Points
Jotun -1J - 27.5 Points
YF-4 - 26 Points
YF-4 Leader - 31 Points
Ghosts - 17.5 Points
Lancer - 17.5 Points
Regult = 6 Points
Glaug = 22 Points
Gluuhaug-Regult = 12.5 Points
Serauhaug-Regult = 20 Points
Telnesta-Regult = 7.5 Points
Scout = 15 Points
Recovery Pod = 10 Points
Serau-Ger Infantry = 3 Points
Gluu-Ger Infantry = 2 Points
Gnerl = 11 Points
Nousjadeul-Ger = 8 Points
Nousgarme-Ger = 23 Points
Glaug-Eldare = 50 Points
Queadluun-Rau = 32 Points
Queadluun-Gult = 37 points
These points are all based on the costs from the squadrons cards. Note that Squadrons get some bang for the buck and get discounts for the squadron leaders.
There are also some complaints on the ROW shipping here and there and also strategy discussions are cropping up.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and we are still working on some Fan Made squadrons like a card with 3 VT's for Vermillion Squadron and VF-1J's that should have been in the book. I'm also upgrading my cards with color coding to match missile descriptions with missile ammo boxes. A few have downloaded my files and are playing with them making the graphics look better. Shame too since I already spent a lot of time printing and laminating the ones I have. Now I might have to sell or trade those off and do it all over since I'm too ADD to play with cards that I know I improved on.
