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Exactly what part of it is "funny stuff"?

Joyboozer wrote:
Exactly what part of it is "funny stuff"?

Apparently, the "funny stuff" is Palladium (and other companies) not doing the most basic of due diligence regarding shipping. Or not organizing an alternate method, like shipping directly from the factory to an Australian distributor (or direct). You know, stuff that a company (as Forar indicates) has a third of a century in the industry, and frequently boasts about their "credentials", might consider.

There SHOULD be a big difference between a guy with a couple of friends working out of their garage for who this is a new and intimidating thing, and a "professional" company. Especially one that had an extra 9+ months with which to get this sorted. It's not like they didn't know how much was heading internationally, a year in advance (close of the Pledge Manager), or the weights and sizes 6 months ago.

Just seems weird that retailers and distributors can apparently get the stuff imported on time with only slightly inflated margins (Good Games are selling the core box already for about $115US) and still apparently make it worthwhile, via air-freight based on when it was declared sent to distributors (unless PB lied again about not shipping to international retailers first). Yes, PB have more to send than a single Core Box, but most of the prohibitive costs are because Palladium screwed up their timeline, and were forced to split Waves. The decision to do that SHOULD have come after a cost analysis of the increased shipping. This isn't because shipping in and of itself to Australia (and other RoW destinations) is onerous. It's because PB didn't do their homework. Again.

Unfortunately I missed the kickstarter by about a month or two. But when I heard on this thread that the core box was available on CoolStuff for 40% off, I went ahead and grabbed a box... and it just arrived today. So for the kickstarter backers who had to wait so long, and especially those who haven't received it yet... I'm really sorry.

For what it's worth, CoolStuff don't ship to where I am in the Middle East, so I had to use a carrier, and ended up paying more in postage than I did for the box itself. Oh well. Anyway, I've only just glanced at the contents of the box, so here's my first impressions:

The box is bigger than I expected.
Yikes, lot's of complex sprues! There is NO REASON for most of these pieces to be split in half!
Hmm, the quality and level of detail is actually better than I'd feared.
I see what people mean about the tiny antennae and excess of attachment points, I'm going to need to be careful here.
The box has no packing material inside, and the rule book isn't even bagged. It's disappointing, but luckily in my case the book isn't damaged.
I don't like the bases very much.
Why... are there so many bits of "non-child-friendly" advertising inside this box? I mean, "tentacle bento"? Really? And that Rifts picture is not one I would let children look at.

I just cannot understand why the models are broken down into so many pieces. There is no way I will be assembling them all and trying to actually play the game. Of course, following this thread I already knew that going in. It's a shame, but I was already resigned to the idea of putting together some Veritechs just for the models, and not playing with them.

Having said all that, when I saw how the Veritech torsos where broken down into multiple parts for no reason, I was actually very pleased. No, wait, hear me out! You see, I'd been planning to try a conversion for a custom Veritech that I've had in mind for a long time, but I didn't think it would be feasible before. Looking at the pieces now, I actually think I can pull it off! Hopefully when I have time to put something together (busy with Warmachine stuff right now) I'll post some pictures.

Overall I've been very lucky; I didn't go through the pain and grief of being a backer, but was able to get my hands on something that's good enough for me. To be honest I almost feel bad about that.

Happy for you mate, still want to slow roast Kevin over a fire.

repost -

again, any of you who are playing or plan to play, please voice your support for adding Robotech to the Dakka Player Finder by posting it here

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/622411.page

 Forar wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
part of the reason why I don't back KS out of country.

Really? That's the direction you want to take this?

Because the vast majority of big KS's seem to be US based, so this basically comes across as 'feth you, got mine, woooo USA!', and surely that's not the intended message you wish to convey...

Yeah, it basically is.

The largest big KS happening to be US-based is a natural consequence of the US being the largest single market for games, so yeah, "Feth you! MURICA!!!"

Given that the US really has ZERO need for foreign money or backers, and minimal experience with any of the forex stuff (which is significantly more complex and expensive), I don't know why any non-US backer would expect to be treated with equivalent priority and ease as a domestic US backer from a US KS. You'll get your stuff, eventually, and that's that. Shoulda, woulda, coulda doesn't change what actually happened. And I don't know why you expected anything different with Palladium, given the track record with Northern Gun. The only reason I split a pledge was because Ninja Division was involved, and apparently it all went to hell after Palladium decided they were going to run the show.

For me, I have no illusions that Canadian (i.e. Heavy Gear) or European KS would do signficantly better, especially given the lower revenue points that they sit at. I have reduced confidence that they will deliver at all, given the limited track records involved. Right now, I'm in for 1 CAD into Heavy Gear, and initial impressions are that it's 1 CAD wasted, despite their claims of years of experience, etc. I'm watching Prodos Alien v Predator with certain amusement, as well.

Is JohnHwangDD American slang for someone who is [MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I don't know why any non-US backer would expect to be treated with equivalent priority and ease as a domestic US backer from a US KS.

Because they pay the same, and actually quite a bit more? Is their money somehow not collected, or is worth less than american moneys? I mean, if a KS doesn't want or need non-american, filthy foreigner money, they can actually, you know, decide not to accept it, after all.

So I've begun the arduous process of building my UEDF forces. I started with two Valks. All three modes. The fighters were very easy. (No missiles yet). THe Guardians were also fairly straight forward, as was the Battloid. Until you started putting the arms together. I went ahead and followed the advice of those who have already started their UEDF models and took the time to make sure which arm halve went where and which shoulder went with which pose before gluing.

I think what I'm going to do with future Guardians is build both arm sets off one sprue so I can minimize how much arm hunting I'll have to do. And so on. I assumed that I'd have a few sprues of extra arms when done so why not have them all on the same sprues. Plus cut down on guessing which goes where later on in the building process.

 dalsiandon wrote:
So I've begun the arduous process of building my UEDF forces. I started with two Valks. All three modes. The fighters were very easy. (No missiles yet). THe Guardians were also fairly straight forward, as was the Battloid. Until you started putting the arms together. I went ahead and followed the advice of those who have already started their UEDF models and took the time to make sure which arm halve went where and which shoulder went with which pose before gluing.

I think what I'm going to do with future Guardians is build both arm sets off one sprue so I can minimize how much arm hunting I'll have to do. And so on. I assumed that I'd have a few sprues of extra arms when done so why not have them all on the same sprues. Plus cut down on guessing which goes where later on in the building process.

I did not glue my arms on my Valk in Guardian mode. Enough play in the arm peg to glue hands unto the weapon itself after finger pluking the weapon into place..

 Albertorius wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I don't know why any non-US backer would expect to be treated with equivalent priority and ease as a domestic US backer from a US KS.

Because they pay the same, and actually quite a bit more? Is their money somehow not collected, or is worth less than american moneys? I mean, if a KS doesn't want or need non-american, filthy foreigner money, they can actually, you know, decide not to accept it, after all.

I'd love to see a KS that says outright on its KS front page "We are going to treat foreign backers substantially worse than US backers" just because so many people think that foreign backers kind of deserve the treatment for daring to live in other countries.

This line of argument about if non-US people should pay more is better suited for a general KS thread, please take it to an existing thread about KS shipping and pledging if there is one, and if there isn't and you think there is good conversation to be had on it then start one. But stop talking about it here.

Kevin will be known as the grinch who stole Christmas.lol

I'm not to happy about how they took over the project right after the campaign ended. Just because PB was to dumb to understand the miniatures rules written by ND they rewrote it and didn't inform us. This guy who runs PB just continues to flounder this project and is purposely ignoring the backers.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
Kevin will be known as the grinch who stole Christmas.lol

I'm not to happy about how they took over the project right after the campaign ended. Just because PB was to dumb to understand the miniatures rules written by ND they rewrote it and didn't inform us. This guy who runs PB just continues to flounder this project and is purposely ignoring the backers.

When did that happen? Does anyone have concrete proof? From the credits in the rulebook, it's all still credited to non-PB people.

We have at least one playtester active on this forum, was there some complete rewrite that took place at the eleventh hour, Mike? Seems like it's pretty much the game that Ninja Division wrote.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
Kevin will be known as the grinch who stole Christmas.lol

I'm not to happy about how they took over the project right after the campaign ended. Just because PB was to dumb to understand the miniatures rules written by ND they rewrote it and didn't inform us. This guy who runs PB just continues to flounder this project and is purposely ignoring the backers.

I've followed it since I bought in for a showdown and I really don't recall seeing that


And in fact here are the preview rules from the kickstarter home page. The core seems pretty much on target
http://damommasboyz.com/sodapop/rtkick/robotech-rpg-tactics-rules-preview-v2.pdf

 judgedoug wrote:

 Cypher-xv wrote:
Kevin will be known as the grinch who stole Christmas.lol

I'm not to happy about how they took over the project right after the campaign ended. Just because PB was to dumb to understand the miniatures rules written by ND they rewrote it and didn't inform us. This guy who runs PB just continues to flounder this project and is purposely ignoring the backers.

When did that happen? Does anyone have concrete proof? From the credits in the rulebook, it's all still credited to non-PB people.

We have at least one playtester active on this forum, was there some complete rewrite that took place at the eleventh hour, Mike? Seems like it's pretty much the game that Ninja Division wrote.

It was from the mouth of the Siembiedessiah IIRC in one of his forum murmurs or weekly updates. He mentioned about 6 months post ks that they were redoing significant portions of the rules to get them to their liking. I'm not sure if they actually quoted an actual percentage but roughly half sounds right.

Core Box $49.99 and booster boxes 50% off again from Cool Stuff Inc.

 Dark Severance wrote:
Core Box $49.99 and booster boxes 50% off again from Cool Stuff Inc.

the add on boxes are 51% off while the box game is 50% off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 judgedoug wrote:

 Cypher-xv wrote:
Kevin will be known as the grinch who stole Christmas.lol

I'm not to happy about how they took over the project right after the campaign ended. Just because PB was to dumb to understand the miniatures rules written by ND they rewrote it and didn't inform us. This guy who runs PB just continues to flounder this project and is purposely ignoring the backers.

When did that happen? Does anyone have concrete proof? From the credits in the rulebook, it's all still credited to non-PB people.

We have at least one playtester active on this forum, was there some complete rewrite that took place at the eleventh hour, Mike? Seems like it's pretty much the game that Ninja Division wrote.

even ND said they did the initial rules, after that it was all PB.

Yes, the rules as written by Soda Pop/Ninja Division were rewritten after they were delivered under contract to Palladium. They were significantly changed from what they are now. This was to bring the game more in line with the Palladium RPG system then a table top game.

I believe that we may see a Southern Cross release, but nothing else. Palladium Games has pretty much killed the game before it even came out. There was too much crap that went on behind the scenes that I am not at liberty to talk about. Palladium and Soda Pop Miniatures/Ninja Division have separated company and chosen not to renew the Robotech contract. Soda Pop/Ninja Division have taken the sculptors, modelers, rules developers, and production with them. In order for Palladium to produce Southern Cross, they will have to either hire all those positions, source them out, or renegotiate a new contract with Ninja Division (it'll be a cold day in Hell when that happens).

Enjoy what we have now, 'cuz we ain't gonna get anything else.

 Tamwulf wrote:
Yes, the rules as written by Soda Pop/Ninja Division were rewritten after they were delivered under contract to Palladium. They were significantly changed from what they are now. This was to bring the game more in line with the Palladium RPG system then a table top game.

I believe that we may see a Southern Cross release, but nothing else. Palladium Games has pretty much killed the game before it even came out. There was too much crap that went on behind the scenes that I am not at liberty to talk about. Palladium and Soda Pop Miniatures/Ninja Division have separated company and chosen not to renew the Robotech contract. Soda Pop/Ninja Division have taken the sculptors, modelers, rules developers, and production with them. In order for Palladium to produce Southern Cross, they will have to either hire all those positions, source them out, or renegotiate a new contract with Ninja Division (it'll be a cold day in Hell when that happens).

Enjoy what we have now, 'cuz we ain't gonna get anything else.

Is that your own experience/knowledge or are you reposting that? If the latter, link please?

I wonder if the seperation was also about a second design company being involved?

Asterios wrote:
the add on boxes are 51% off while the box game is 50% off.

Rick, nobody gives a gak about the 1%. It's accurate enough for prime time.

Some are half off, presumably the 1% is a rounding error reflecting CSI's desire to have the boxes be $15.99, because reasons, and by reasons I mean retail.

Now, if we want to point out actual noteworthy differences from the baseline, look at the other packs.

The VT pack continues to be underpriced compared to the others, despite having the same MSRP (CSI has been doing this for ages), meaning they're currently at ~60% off (59% off if we want to be anal retentive, because we know that 1% is soooo important), as are the Defender/Tomahawk pack (actually 58%, again, importance of accuracy even in casual discussion OMG!), which I find a little strange, as I'd have thought those would be in fairly high demand with all the Battletech players gushing about getting their hands on unseen. Oh, and while the Battlepods are around 50% off (!), the Command Pack and Artillery Pack are both around 60% off as well (within a reasonable margin of error).

So rather than fuss over 1-2% exacting accuracy, how about we instead look at things that are actually noteworthy.

Weren't they originally selling for 25-40% off, and 50% was seen as a huge thing that few people actually cared about? Dropping to 60% on some stuff does seem like it could be an issue. Keep in mind that the 1/2 off sale just ended a day or two ago. Having an even better sale mere days later can be a customer service nightmare.

As for the rules, I too am interested in the source. WRRD himself said last week

There was even a complete rewrite early in the process.

, but without more detail, that could mean a PB rewrite of ND's work, or ND's rewrite of PB's initial venture. Though with how much of the RPG remains, it seems more likely that it'd be the former, unless ND were told up front that as much RPG'ism had to be retained.

What we DO know.
1. Tom wrote original rules and with Jon approached PB.
2. PB liked idea but due to licensing limitations had to make rules more in line with RPG.
3. ND and/or Carmen worked on re-writing rules.
4. Initial Rules shown during KS are very close to actual.

What I believe/think....
5. ND had rules and made changes even post KS. Changes were small for the most part. (KS rules vs actual support this)
6. PB had little idea of mini games and could not be trusted to manage the rules even IF they did have control.
7. ND from what I understand had their wrists slapped for even releasing that much during the KS by HG and were scared to even allow PB any control of the rules.
8. Any additional changes had to wait till the end when ND had to pass PB the goods so that they could go through final approval and then to print.
9. Because of the short timeline some things were not fixed but need to be clarified as time goes by. Errata is needed.

 Mike1975 wrote:
What we DO know.
1. Tom wrote original rules and with Jon approached PB.
2. PB liked idea but due to licensing limitations had to make rules more in line with RPG.
3. ND and/or Carmen worked on re-writing rules.
4. Initial Rules shown during KS are very close to actual.

I underlined an assumption. I've seen people talk about this for a long time (pre-KS) but it's all just been rumor.
(that any miniature release must be an extension of the RPG rules, as you've asserted)

 Mike1975 wrote:

9. Because of the short timeline some things were not fixed but need to be clarified as time goes by. Errata is needed.

It was a year late in releasing any product (and we're still waiting on 1/2 to 2/3 depending on how you count)... the timeline had ample wiggle/stretch/darwinian evolution room with how late the minis side ultimately made things to clarify things. Nothing I submitted for clarification during those many cold and empty months was addressed. YMMV.

Yeah - calling this a "short timeline" is beyond a reasonable stretch.

You even pointed out (iirc) issues that you saw early in your playtesting that weren't corrected, right?

My guess is from Kevin's pov everything was perfect and he must have figured it'll be like his RPG rules where your expected to house rule every damn thing.

Mike

If PB wasn't in control of the rules does that mean HG was?

Also, I'm up to 10 figures built, hopefully to be at 15 as of tonight, assuming I'm willing to subject myself to another Battloid/Guardian.

At that point I'll be at a 2/6 split on VT's to Pods, and might glance at some Destroids and a Command sprue set to get some variety going.

Though that's mostly just getting ahead of the game, as I still have no idea when I'll actually be playing it. Not that this is a terribly pressing complaint, more a critique on how little enthusiasm my two compatriots seem to have to get some games going.

But, y'know, gotta get ready for that big launch event they're working out with the MA's.

>.>

If/when it happens something tells me it'll be anticlimactic. Did any of you guys see this from a ND playtester? Doesn't give me confidence in wave two.

"@Khyron... As John and the other employees at Ninja Division have said on their forums and Facebook. Ninja Division was only hired on for the intial rules set up and miniature "model" design. After they submitted these to PB, PB did what ever they wanted with it. They have no knowledge or say so on the decisions PB made after that. Example: Current rules are thanks to Carmen of PB and the decision to split the models in half were PB's. And lastly, choosing to use a different Chinese factory than the one Ninja Division uses was all PB's choice as well. Ninja Division pretty much did what they were paid to do then PB decided to go their own direction with it. Using Ninja Division to do all the leg work, then turned it around to make it into their own Frankenstien abomination RPG version of it. Because the game is nothing like they intionally submitted they don't want to even support it with their line of products. Hence why there is no support , mention, forum or ninja volunteer program for the game through ND. And why it is now up to PB's Megaverse (TM) ambasador program to promote the game. Because, Ninja Divisions name is still attached to the games' models they still post pics of ONLY the models. I have not seen a single pic of the whole game other than the models on Ninja Divisions websites. Because, they have no say so on what PB decided to do with the models after they were submitted they have no idea on the status of wave 2 either. Best bet is to keep houding the PB forums about a status update on wave 2 and hope that NMI doesn't lock it immediatly after."

So the game is dead basically in about two years at most?