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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





In the entry for combat drugs, DE codex pg 25, it says "All units in your army that have combat drugs will benefit from the effect listed for the entire game."

If an IC joins a unit, per the BRB, said IC becomes a normal member of said unit for all rules purposes.

If said IC doesn't have combat drugs, but the unit they join does, does that now mean that they will receive the benefits of said drugs? Based on the RAW, that seems to be the case. If anyone has page numbers or quotes to the contrary, it'd be great to hear from you.

Many USRs confer the special rules of a single model to the entire unit, such as skilled rider. This seems to be worded as such, since it refers to the entire unit, and as far as I know, this hasn't been FAQed to say otherwise.

There is NO SUCH THING as MORE ADVANCED in 40k!!! There are ONLY 2 LEVELS of RULES: Basic and Advanced. THE END. Stop saying "More Advanced". That is not a recognized thing in modern 40k!!!!
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Made in au
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation



Perth, Western Australia

Personally I don't believe that the word 'unit' in the Combat Drugs Special Rule is enough to override the restriction on Special Rules being conferred to an IC.
Remember, the DE codex was written before the '. . .for all rules purposes' for IC's was part of the game.
   
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Dakka Veteran





Dra'al Nacht wrote:
Personally I don't believe that the word 'unit' in the Combat Drugs Special Rule is enough to override the restriction on Special Rules being conferred to an IC.
Remember, the DE codex was written before the '. . .for all rules purposes' for IC's was part of the game.


While it's true the DE dex was written before 6th ed, a new core rulebook changes the way MANY powers from codices work with the normal rules. I don't see that as being different for this one without supporting documentation to the contrary.

What "restriction" about special rules being conferred to an IC is there? Is that a rule somewhere that can be quoted with a page number?


EDIT: Clarity

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/19 13:19:36


There is NO SUCH THING as MORE ADVANCED in 40k!!! There are ONLY 2 LEVELS of RULES: Basic and Advanced. THE END. Stop saying "More Advanced". That is not a recognized thing in modern 40k!!!!
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Made in au
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation



Perth, Western Australia

 BetrayTheWorld wrote:
What "restriction" about special rules being conferred to an IC is there? Is that a rule somewhere that can be quoted with a page number?

BRB pg39, Independent Character; Special Rules.
'Unless specified in the rule itself, the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the Independent Character, . .'


   
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Dakka Veteran





Dra'al Nacht wrote:
 BetrayTheWorld wrote:
What "restriction" about special rules being conferred to an IC is there? Is that a rule somewhere that can be quoted with a page number?

BRB pg39, Independent Character; Special Rules.
'Unless specified in the rule itself, the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the Independent Character, . .'


DE codex pg 25 wrote: "All units in your army that have combat drugs will benefit from the effect listed for the entire game."


Since it says "Units" and not "Models", if you read that as saying it confers the effects to the entire unit, then it IS specifically saying that it confers the special rule to the entire unit. That would be in keeping with the rule you quoted there, based on interpretation. The BRB specifically outlines that when the word "unit" is used, it's talking about all models in the combat unit.

Mostly just playing devil's advocate for RAW here, I'm quite certain that the RAI is that they don't get it. What are your thoughts between the two? (RAW/RAI)


EDIT: Formatting

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/19 14:12:07


There is NO SUCH THING as MORE ADVANCED in 40k!!! There are ONLY 2 LEVELS of RULES: Basic and Advanced. THE END. Stop saying "More Advanced". That is not a recognized thing in modern 40k!!!!
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Made in gb
Executing Exarch






I'll throw a curveball in here then, if an IC with Combat Drugs (a Succubi for example) joins a unit without the Combat Drugs rule, what happens?
Personally I'd say that the section headed 'Special Rules' in the IC section (page 39 BRB) would cover it, but the phrase earlier in those rules ("counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes") can be read to cover all sorts of sins.
   
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Quanar wrote:
I'll throw a curveball in here then, if an IC with Combat Drugs (a Succubi for example) joins a unit without the Combat Drugs rule, what happens?
Personally I'd say that the section headed 'Special Rules' in the IC section (page 39 BRB) would cover it, but the phrase earlier in those rules ("counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes") can be read to cover all sorts of sins.


RAW? That unit would now contain a model with combat drugs. And since it says "All units that have combat drugs...", I'd say that unit now fits within the defined parameters of those who'd receive the effects.
   
Made in au
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation



Perth, Western Australia

Yes, the IC section states that: 'he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, . .' But then it goes on to make a specific exception to this statement under the Special Rules sub heading. From a RAW point of view would this not be 'Specific>General'?

Basically I believe conferring the Combat Drugs rule is not allowed RAW or RAI, but obviously the unfortunate use of the word 'unit' in the rule is enough to create some ambiguity.

From a fluff point of view, by the time the IC joins the unit, they've already had their fix and don't have any left to share.
   
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Dra'al Nacht wrote:

From a fluff point of view, by the time the IC joins the unit, they've already had their fix and don't have any left to share.


Except that, from what I understand, rules changes to 6th edition allow characters to join a unit prior to deployment. (Some guy on the internet said it, it must be true.)

There is NO SUCH THING as MORE ADVANCED in 40k!!! There are ONLY 2 LEVELS of RULES: Basic and Advanced. THE END. Stop saying "More Advanced". That is not a recognized thing in modern 40k!!!!
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




That isnt the case. You can only join after deployment or while in reserves

The FAQ change to 5th didnt make it into 6th
   
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nosferatu1001 wrote:
That isnt the case. You can only join after deployment or while in reserves

The FAQ change to 5th didnt make it into 6th


If this were the case, it'd break rules. For instance, Asdraebel Vect's Dias of Destruction stipulates that it must begin the game with vect and 9 other models embarked. Since it stipulates "Begin the game with..", joining them AFTER deployment would be in violation of this rule.

The BRB, pg 39 says, An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in reserve, by informing your opponent of which unit it has joined.

Both of these support units starting the game already attached to a unit, simply by explaining your unit and reserves organization to your opponent prior to deployment. You are also required to fully explain your reserves organization to your opponent prior to deployment. This means reserves are established prior to deployment, so at the very least, any ICs held in reserve with a unit would be considered a part of that unit at the time combat drugs is rolled, even if the deployed units thing were debatable.


EDIT: One other thing I'd like to mention here. If combat drugs were resolved on a model by model basis, that would cause lots of raised eyebrows when my unit of 10 wyches starts the game with 5 pain tokens.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/20 22:28:02


There is NO SUCH THING as MORE ADVANCED in 40k!!! There are ONLY 2 LEVELS of RULES: Basic and Advanced. THE END. Stop saying "More Advanced". That is not a recognized thing in modern 40k!!!!
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Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

 BetrayTheWorld wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
That isnt the case. You can only join after deployment or while in reserves

The FAQ change to 5th didnt make it into 6th


If this were the case, it'd break rules. For instance, Asdraebel Vect's Dias of Destruction stipulates that it must begin the game with vect and 9 other models embarked. Since it stipulates "Begin the game with..", joining them AFTER deployment would be in violation of this rule.

The BRB, pg 39 says, An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in reserve, by informing your opponent of which unit it has joined.

Both of these support units starting the game already attached to a unit, simply by explaining your unit and reserves organization to your opponent prior to deployment. You are also required to fully explain your reserves organization to your opponent prior to deployment. This means reserves are established prior to deployment, so at the very least, any ICs held in reserve with a unit would be considered a part of that unit at the time combat drugs is rolled, even if the deployed units thing were debatable.


That is because deployment happens before Turn 1.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
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 Happyjew wrote:

That is because deployment happens before Turn 1.


So does reserves organization, which happens before deployment, as I demonstrated above. Also added edit so it didn't get missed.

EDIT: One other thing I'd like to mention here. If combat drugs were resolved on a model by model basis, that would cause lots of raised eyebrows when my unit of 10 wyches starts the game with 10 pain tokens.



typo

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/20 22:29:50


There is NO SUCH THING as MORE ADVANCED in 40k!!! There are ONLY 2 LEVELS of RULES: Basic and Advanced. THE END. Stop saying "More Advanced". That is not a recognized thing in modern 40k!!!!
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Made in im
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Liverpool

Kids: Don't do drugs!
(even if the nice Elf man says it's candy)
   
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Buffalo, NY

Om nom nom...wait...this isn't candy? But the sign on the side of the van said...

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
 
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