Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

First I have to say, does anybody read the rulebook anymore?

So the situation,

Me and a friend were playing 2000 pt game and are local GW. Me Tau, Him IG

Everything was going pretty smooth up until I decided to shoot at marbo with on of my crisis suits.

-Marbo was on the second floor of a ruin right on the edge of it, my Crisis suit was about 4 inches away on the ground. (My crisis suit can see the whole model)

- I wound marbo 3 times, and inform my comrade that he can take his 6+ save (marbo has stealth)

-He then starts arguing saying he gets his 4+ for being in a ruin

-I attempt to inform him that cover saves are TLOS now, and only if the model is actually cover'd (25%) does he get his save

-He then argues that ruins are Area terrain, I counter with the rulebook states only the base is Area Terrain

This is where it gets crazy, a couple guys heard the argument and attempted to explain to me that I was wrong,
a few more minutes go buy. and I had the entire store in a argument against me (10+ dudes)!
minus the Red Shirt who was busy making a sale. But I stuck to my guns. I finally opend the rulebook and we explored it togather.

One minute later everybody was agreeing with me, some were a little bitter that I had proven my case right.

I can't belieave the entire store did not know how to do Cover Saves with TLOS.

Anybody have a similar experiance?

mmm.. what??? Oh sorry, I was just noticing the glass of milk in your avatar...

Actually, I had this exact same argument recently, shortly followed by an argument about being able to charge w/o TLoS. It can be frustrating when people get "stuck" in old editions, but it happens a lot.

Check out the thread I started a while back. It actually has some helpful advice.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/517494.page

on all tournaments ive been to its area affect for the Whole! ruin, so according to all the games of sixth eddition including the competive ones its been like this and also been played like that on the white dwarf battle reports.

so for your case i might think you played it wrong. are you in a ruin or ON a ruin you gets its cover save unless you got something that ignores cover.

phatonic wrote:
on all tournaments ive been to its area affect for the Whole! ruin, so according to all the games of sixth eddition including the competive ones its been like this and also been played like that on the white dwarf battle reports.

so for your case i might think you played it wrong. are you in a ruin or ON a ruin you gets its cover save unless you got something that ignores cover.

Ether your tournements have there own rules or there playing it wrong.

Check your book in ruins with bases, Only the base of the ruin is Area Terrain.

And this is why I go over all terrain before game. My store has pretty much house-ruled 5+ in ruins unless actually obscured, so a model on the third floor, completely visible still gets a save.

 Happyjew wrote:
And this is why I go over all terrain before game. My store has pretty much house-ruled 5+ in ruins unless actually obscured, so a model on the third floor, completely visible still gets a save.

^ This pretty much, in our local GW store we tend to do use 5+ on ground and 4+ on the entire ruin. But allways make sure to Deal with what gives what before you start the game.

 Mumbles883 wrote:

phatonic wrote:
on all tournaments ive been to its area affect for the Whole! ruin, so according to all the games of sixth eddition including the competive ones its been like this and also been played like that on the white dwarf battle reports.

so for your case i might think you played it wrong. are you in a ruin or ON a ruin you gets its cover save unless you got something that ignores cover.

Ether your tournements have there own rules or there playing it wrong.

Check your book in ruins with bases, Only the base of the ruin is Area Terrain.

Not to sound confrontational but you are coming across a tad arrogant. Page 98, Ruins: The basiscs. Read the line below that heading. It clears up the coversave issue for ruins.
A 4+ for units in a ruin above the ground floor will always apply, ground floor is the only thing that is up for grabs and depends on the construction of the ruin piece.

Edited.

 liturgies of blood wrote:

 Mumbles883 wrote:

phatonic wrote:
on all tournaments ive been to its area affect for the Whole! ruin, so according to all the games of sixth eddition including the competive ones its been like this and also been played like that on the white dwarf battle reports.

so for your case i might think you played it wrong. are you in a ruin or ON a ruin you gets its cover save unless you got something that ignores cover.

Ether your tournements have there own rules or there playing it wrong.

Check your book in ruins with bases, Only the base of the ruin is Area Terrain.

Not to sound confrontational but you are coming across a tad arrogant. Page 98, Ruins: The basiscs. Read the line below that heading. It clears up the coversave issue for ruins.
A 5+ for units in a ruin above the ground floor will always apply, ground floor is the only thing that is up for grabs and depends on the construction of the ruin piece.

Sorry, I am not trying to.

I am just trying to get to the bottom of things.

As I am at work right now I will check out that section of the Rulebook when I get home.

Just so you know I realize other people play with there own house rules or agreed upon rules. I am just trying to understand the RAW

 liturgies of blood wrote:
A 5+ for units in a ruin above the ground floor will always apply, ground floor is the only thing that is up for grabs and depends on the construction of the ruin piece.

This is incorrect.

Ruins are difficult terrain.
Ruins provide a 4+ cover save (if you are obscured by them).
Ruins with bases treat the base as area terrain and difficult terrain.
Ruins without bases treat the bottom floor as clear terrain unless moving through walls or up floors.
Ruins with bases give you a 5+ cover save when you are on the base since they are area terrain.
Ruins with bases give you a 4+ cover save when you are on the base if you are obscured by the ruin itself.
Going to ground on the base of a ruin? +2 to the cover save you have (So either 3+ if not obscured or 2+ if obscured)
Going to ground on any level above the base of a ruin or in a ruin with no base? +1 to your cover save (So 4+ if obscured, 6+ if not obscured)

+1 pretre


<3 pretre

 pretre wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
A 5+ for units in a ruin above the ground floor will always apply, ground floor is the only thing that is up for grabs and depends on the construction of the ruin piece.

This is incorrect.

Ruins are difficult terrain.
Ruins provide a 4+ cover save (if you are obscured by them).
Ruins with bases treat the base as area terrain and difficult terrain.
Ruins without bases treat the bottom floor as clear terrain unless moving through walls or up floors.
Ruins with bases give you a 5+ cover save when you are on the base since they are area terrain.
Ruins with bases give you a 4+ cover save when you are on the base if you are obscured by the ruin itself.
Going to ground on the base of a ruin? +2 to the cover save you have (So either 3+ if not obscured or 2+ if obscured)
Going to ground on any level above the base of a ruin or in a ruin with no base? +1 to your cover save (So 4+ if obscured, 6+ if not obscured)

this

 pretre wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
A 5+ for units in a ruin above the ground floor will always apply, ground floor is the only thing that is up for grabs and depends on the construction of the ruin piece.

This is incorrect.

Ruins are difficult terrain.
Ruins provide a 4+ cover save (if you are obscured by them).
Ruins with bases treat the base as area terrain and difficult terrain.
Ruins without bases treat the bottom floor as clear terrain unless moving through walls or up floors.
Ruins with bases give you a 5+ cover save when you are on the base since they are area terrain.
Ruins with bases give you a 4+ cover save when you are on the base if you are obscured by the ruin itself.
Going to ground on the base of a ruin? +2 to the cover save you have (So either 3+ if not obscured or 2+ if obscured)
Going to ground on any level above the base of a ruin or in a ruin with no base? +1 to your cover save (So 4+ if obscured, 6+ if not obscured)

Sorry there but what is wrong about what I said as per page 98.

Ruins with bases are area terrain so being covered doesn't matter. See bottom left of page 91. Unless there is something I missed in the faq.

Edit oh sorry I mistyped, yes it is a 4+

 liturgies of blood wrote:

Sorry there but what is wrong about what I said as per page 98.

Ruins with bases are area terrain so being covered doesn't matter. See bottom left of page 91. Unless there is something I missed in the faq.

Edit oh sorry I mistyped, yes it is a 4+

The base level of the ruin is area terrain. Area terrain gives you a 5+ save.
The rest of the ruin gives you a 4+ save if you are obscured and nothing if you don't.

You're mixing up the fact that it is both Area Terrain and Ruins. It is two types of cover. You take the best one that applies.

^ This

This is just simple edition creep. You are correct, people don't read the rulebook. Some people don't even own the rulebook.

 pretre wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:

Sorry there but what is wrong about what I said as per page 98.

Ruins with bases are area terrain so being covered doesn't matter. See bottom left of page 91. Unless there is something I missed in the faq.

Edit oh sorry I mistyped, yes it is a 4+

The base level of the ruin is area terrain. Area terrain gives you a 5+ save.
The rest of the ruin gives you a 4+ save if you are obscured and nothing if you don't.

You're mixing up the fact that it is both Area Terrain and Ruins. It is two types of cover. You take the best one that applies.

I was mixing something else up, I misread he top of 98 as if it were akin to area terrain instead of it being the exact same as being behind razorwire for how you get your save.