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Image is a thousand words.

 Blaggard wrote:
Image is a thousand words.

*snip*]

Enjoy your exaltation. I had a laugh.

The rectangular base adds a decent amount of threat range. I just did the math, and assuming the base is a 2.75" by 1" rectangle, you get a total area of about 158 square inches that are in the bubble. In contrast, a standard model is on a 1" base, and therefore has a bubble of about 132 square inches.

However, the other points are good. You only need one model within the bubble to get the banner's benefit, so you can set up your squads so that you can get several with one model within the bubble, then turboboost over to another similarly arranged group. This obviously won't work for the FNP bubble. Basically, the Devastation banner has some unique synergy with a Ravenwing list. Also, the fact that all Ravenwing models are on bases with roughly double the area of a standard model means you can set up the sort of conga lines you want to do with this strategy more easily.

Mix in the fact that Salvo weapons are really effective on Relentless models, and the Devastation banner looks like a massive force multiplier for a Ravenwing army, and one that you can generally control. In constrast, while FNP is definitely useful, you can't abuse Turbo Boost to get more use out of it, plus it's something your opponent can work around, unless you bunch up your army, which gives other advantages.

So are people only running dark knights in ravenwing lists?
Gonna try running mine in a mixed death/green wing

Sigh, the FNP banner is for Black Knight heavy lists (22+ Black Knights) that are charging forward to slaughter everything with close-ranged plasma and hit and run assault.

In this list you're light on RAS so having the Dakka banner doesn't help, but is a massive boost to your 2+ cover models.

In normal Ravenwing lists you go heavy on the RAS so Dakka banner to boost them.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Holy~Heretic wrote:
So are people only running dark knights in ravenwing lists?
Gonna try running mine in a mixed death/green wing

Batman has turned traitor, you're thinking of the Night Lords.

Mixedwing doesn't really work, in my opinion; too much compromise and inefficiency. Ravenwing are the most efficient space marines at the moment with the Standard.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I never turbo boost my RWCS to give some other chump Salvo. If 5 bike squads worth of Salvo can't down something, you're doing it wrong. Yes, 5 bike squads is the number you can fit in the bubble easily. The only reason to ever TB is to get the save or into RF/Assault range next turn.

You're wasting a turn of shooting from a 185+ point unit to give salvo to some others elsewhere. What? You should never be taking that many RAS, anyway.

new question I need to ask!

How many knights are good in a unit?

I go for units of 5, the right balance and a nice round number (210) You don't need 2 GL in a unit.

5 or 6.

so if five is the ideal number....


then a six man squad is completely pointless after all?

If you are taking DWK squads (and not biker command squads) and you want GL redundancy, then take 6. Command squads are just better though. Unlock one with Sammy and unlock another with a Tech or something on a bike.

Tech on a bike was necessary when they were 3, but since you can get 10 now with two HQs you don't really need the Tech, I think. He costs you an entire RAS, and 3 5-man command squads is a bit much.

The tech was supposed to be the second HQ. Spend 70 pts on a 2+ on a bike or ~100 for a Librarian/chaplain? You're already twin linked and you don't have the body count for combat.

Invisibility is your friend. You don't roll on Divination. Why do you need to have body count for combat? a single Black Knight can roll 10 GEQ, or 5 MEQ.

Invisibility is good, but the 1/3 chance of getting it isn't. You're also having to spend ~130 points to even attempt to get it.

Let's say your 1 guy charges 5 meq.
Overwatch:
9*(1/6*2/6*2/6)=0.167 dead so far, so basically nothing.
Combat, you both hit at the same turn:
BK:
3/6*2/6=0.17 kills from HOW
1/6*4*3/6*4/6=0.22 kills from rends
5/6*4*3/6*4/6*2/6=0.37 kills from normal attacks.
Tac: 6*3/6*2/6*2/6=0.33 kills
GH w/ Counter attack: 15*3/6*2/6*2/6=0.83 kills

Next turn:
BK:1/6*3*3/6*4/6=0.17 rend kills
5/6*3*3/6*4/6*2/6=0.28 normal kills
Tac: 6*3/6*2/6*2/6=0.33 kills
GH: 10*3/6*2/6*2/6=0.56 kills
Congratulations, you've spent a turn maybe killing a MEQ and maybe getting killed in return. Hardly rolling them.

They are good in combat, don't get me wrong. But as soon as you start losing them it hurts you hard. You have to pick things you can easily bully with them to assault, but if you assault something that wants you in close combat. You need the body count so that you can absorb the losses and still deliver a adequately sized punch to keep you in combat during their shooting and have it so they don't have a chance to wear you down in combat.

130 points to get Invisibility is points well spent. Psychic Defence, Force Weapon, Hallucinate, Psychic Shriek... all better than a 2+, one wound, being forced to take Rapid Manouvre and one Power fist attack. Oh wait, I really need to bolster that piece of cover and repair my bikes.

You're on bikes. You get to choose who charges what. If not, you're doing it wrong.

Remember there not so much of a hammer as your terminators, more of a scalpel. Use more subtly and they are awesome.