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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/21 17:16:38
Subject: 1500 Space Marines Army - Need help
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Okay, first I`ll show my roster to you with only SM squads.
HQ
Librarian w/Epistolary Upgrade, Terminator Armour, Storm Bolter (180pts)
Elite
Ironclad Dreadnought w/Heavy Flamer at DCCW, Seismic Hammer and Drop Pod (180pts)
7 X Sternguard Veteran Squad w/ Drop pod, 4 Combi-Melta, a Heavy Flamer and a Plasma Gun, Sarge w/ Power Fist, Boltgun (275pts)
Troop
10 X Tactical Squad w/ Drop Pod, Flamer and Plasma Cannon. Sarge w/ Combi-Flamer and a Power Fist (245pts)
10 X Tactical Squad w/ Razorback with TL Lascannon, Lascannon and Plasma Gun. Sarge w/ Storm Bolter (275pts)
Fast Attack
Stormtalon Gunship w/ Typhoon Missile Launcher (145pts)
Heavy Support
Thunderfire Cannon (100pts)
Fortification
Aegis Defense Line w/ a Quad-gun (100pts)
I`ll use 3 Drop pods for using Drop Pod Assault rule, which must use 3 to drop 2 in a single Turn. (For Elite Slots)
I haven`t played this roster YET, so I can`t catch my army`s weakness.
Help if you can seek problems.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/21 18:12:44
Subject: 1500 Space Marines Army - Need help
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Slippery Scout Biker
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The Thunderfire cannon, whilst great on paper, is the second worst heavy support choice in the codex (in my opinion its only situationally better than the whirlwind, which is crap, though some may say otherwise). Drop pod assault is great, but why not juggle the points around to get 10 sternguard in the mix? the best kit of sternguard in my time of playing is any ratio of combimelta and combiflamer that fits the bill. you dont need the heavy flamer or the plasma gun in this squad, because you can mount rockets in the droppod for a very low point cost, and the only reason to bring sternguard is for the special ammo/combispam the powerfist is also a waste of points, because if vanilla marines get in a fight with something that can actually melee, they aren't going to be around long enough to use the fist. overall your list is nice, i like the flexibility in the tac squad set ups, and the iron clad is always nice. however, you really dont need a razor back in this list, when a rhino would do just as well.
perhaps cut points til you can insert 3 more sternguardsmen and a vindicator. or a squad of typhoons. with multimeltas. overall a nice list with a lot of promise.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/21 18:14:03
I saw. I conquered. I came
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2000 (WIP) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/21 18:58:44
Subject: 1500 Space Marines Army - Need help
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Fresh-Faced New User
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OlGreye wrote:The Thunderfire cannon, whilst great on paper, is the second worst heavy support choice in the codex (in my opinion its only situationally better than the whirlwind, which is crap, though some may say otherwise). Drop pod assault is great, but why not juggle the points around to get 10 sternguard in the mix? the best kit of sternguard in my time of playing is any ratio of combimelta and combiflamer that fits the bill. you dont need the heavy flamer or the plasma gun in this squad, because you can mount rockets in the droppod for a very low point cost, and the only reason to bring sternguard is for the special ammo/combispam the powerfist is also a waste of points, because if vanilla marines get in a fight with something that can actually melee, they aren't going to be around long enough to use the fist. overall your list is nice, i like the flexibility in the tac squad set ups, and the iron clad is always nice. however, you really dont need a razor back in this list, when a rhino would do just as well.
perhaps cut points til you can insert 3 more sternguardsmen and a vindicator. or a squad of typhoons. with multimeltas. overall a nice list with a lot of promise.
I think I should put out Razorback and deal remaining points with Sternguard. Cover problem could be solved by Aegis Defense Line and Some Ruins...... I don`t know yet. I`ll find out.
But I use TFC for TM`s Bolster Defense and provide Long-Range Counter-horde Firepower.
Need more Stationary Fire Support Platform. I just don`t want to use Vindicator and LS with Typhoon and MM. Perhaps Dreadnought with 2 HW could be helpful?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/21 19:10:43
Subject: 1500 Space Marines Army - Need help
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Fixture of Dakka
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If the libby is going to have a shooty power, like Avenger, then I'd skip the Storm Bolter.
I disagree with OlGreye. *2* Thunderfire Cannons are a royal dakka pain. I'd keep the one anyway.
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"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Quitting Daemon Princes, Bob and Fred - a 40k webcomic |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/21 19:12:47
Subject: 1500 Space Marines Army - Need help
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Keep the razorback. You want all the lascannons you can get.
The Thunderfire is a great heavy choice because it is both cheap and fills an important niche: ignore cover saves.
This list is actually pretty similar to my BA drop/jumper list.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/21 19:18:56
Subject: 1500 Space Marines Army - Need help
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Brothererekose wrote:If the libby is going to have a shooty power, like Avenger, then I'd skip the Storm Bolter.
I disagree with OlGreye. *2* Thunderfire Cannons are a royal dakka pain. I'd keep the one anyway.
that depends on situation. Gate of Infinity and Null Zone need storm bolter, but Null Zone and (Anything) doesn`t.
....... Yes, I`m just too cheepskate for buying another Librarian.
So I`ll use one Thunderfire Cannon as always.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/21 19:21:11
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/21 19:47:42
Subject: 1500 Space Marines Army - Need help
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Beaver Dam, WI
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Balone wrote:Okay, first I`ll show my roster to you with only SM squads.
HQ Librarian w/Epistolary Upgrade, Terminator Armour, Storm Bolter (180pts)
Elite Ironclad Dreadnought w/Heavy Flamer at DCCW, Seismic Hammer and Drop Pod (180pts)
7 X Sternguard Veteran Squad w/ Drop pod, 4 Combi-Melta, a Heavy Flamer and a Plasma Gun, Sarge w/ Power Fist, Boltgun (275pts)
Troop 10 X Tactical Squad w/ Drop Pod, Flamer and Plasma Cannon. Sarge w/ Combi-Flamer and a Power Fist (245pts)
10 X Tactical Squad w/ Razorback with TL Lascannon, Lascannon and Plasma Gun. Sarge w/ Storm Bolter (275pts)
Fast Attack
Stormtalon Gunship w/ Typhoon Missile Launcher (145pts)
Heavy Support
Thunderfire Cannon (100pts)
Fortification
Aegis Defense Line w/ a Quad-gun (100pts)
I`ll use 3 Drop pods for using Drop Pod Assault rule, which must use 3 to drop 2 in a single Turn. (For Elite Slots)
IMO you are running a mixed list... You have ranged firepower but want to do drop pod assault.
With drop pod assault I think you want to be dropping in 5 drop pods and have some CC backup.
Suggested changes:
HQ: Librarian 100 (Too many points... keep him cheap and take Null Zone and an attack spell)
Elite: Ironclad Dread in drop pod: 180 ( I prefer the sure 2d6 +10 pen of chainfist over the +1 damage chart but that is preference)
7 Sternguard in drop pod: 245 (5 Combi-Melta, 2 Combi-Flamer)
( Unless you are playing Vulkan, never give up your super bolter for a SW or heavy flamer)
Troop: 10 Tacticals: (Flamer, MM, CombiFlamer in Droppod) 205
10 Tacticals: (Flamer, MM, CombiFlamer in Droppod) 205
( I like this setup for drop pods. The normal weakness of MM is the lack of range. Because you are drop podding, it is good. The flamer combi-flamer is a better combo against being charged than any power weapon... If you want add melta bombs)
Fast: Stormtalon 145
Fort: I think you are overcommitting to anti-air... lose either the stormtalon or the ADL. I would vote for losing the ADL and just keep your troops together.
1075
So this leaves you with 425 points to play with...
I would add a 2nd ironclad w heavy flamer and chainfist (in case you have AV 14 the chainfist is better) in drop pod 180
That leaves you with 245 points... An easy would be a 2nd Stormtalon and then 2 attack bikes with MM to go tank hunting...
Or...210 for 5 Terminators with heavy flamer & chainfist and 30 points into teleport homers on 3 drop pods...
The perhaps a 3rd Tactical: with 8 men - combi-melta and melta in drop pod... to tank hunt and be the sacrificial squad... 178
Deathwind launches can provide your anti-hoard replacing the loss of the TFC. Losing all the one-off powerweapons for an ironclad or terminators is going to provide you with better decisive close combat units...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/21 20:37:33
Subject: 1500 Space Marines Army - Need help
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Fresh-Faced New User
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DAaddict wrote:Balone wrote:Okay, first I`ll show my roster to you with only SM squads.
HQ Librarian w/Epistolary Upgrade, Terminator Armour, Storm Bolter (180pts)
Elite Ironclad Dreadnought w/Heavy Flamer at DCCW, Seismic Hammer and Drop Pod (180pts)
7 X Sternguard Veteran Squad w/ Drop pod, 4 Combi-Melta, a Heavy Flamer and a Plasma Gun, Sarge w/ Power Fist, Boltgun (275pts)
Troop 10 X Tactical Squad w/ Drop Pod, Flamer and Plasma Cannon. Sarge w/ Combi-Flamer and a Power Fist (245pts)
10 X Tactical Squad w/ Razorback with TL Lascannon, Lascannon and Plasma Gun. Sarge w/ Storm Bolter (275pts)
Fast Attack
Stormtalon Gunship w/ Typhoon Missile Launcher (145pts)
Heavy Support
Thunderfire Cannon (100pts)
Fortification
Aegis Defense Line w/ a Quad-gun (100pts)
I`ll use 3 Drop pods for using Drop Pod Assault rule, which must use 3 to drop 2 in a single Turn. (For Elite Slots)
IMO you are running a mixed list... You have ranged firepower but want to do drop pod assault.
With drop pod assault I think you want to be dropping in 5 drop pods and have some CC backup.
Suggested changes:
HQ: Librarian 100 (Too many points... keep him cheap and take Null Zone and an attack spell)
Elite: Ironclad Dread in drop pod: 180 ( I prefer the sure 2d6 +10 pen of chainfist over the +1 damage chart but that is preference)
7 Sternguard in drop pod: 245 (5 Combi-Melta, 2 Combi-Flamer)
( Unless you are playing Vulkan, never give up your super bolter for a SW or heavy flamer)
Troop: 10 Tacticals: (Flamer, MM, CombiFlamer in Droppod) 205
10 Tacticals: (Flamer, MM, CombiFlamer in Droppod) 205
( I like this setup for drop pods. The normal weakness of MM is the lack of range. Because you are drop podding, it is good. The flamer combi-flamer is a better combo against being charged than any power weapon... If you want add melta bombs)
Fast: Stormtalon 145
Fort: I think you are overcommitting to anti-air... lose either the stormtalon or the ADL. I would vote for losing the ADL and just keep your troops together.
1075
So this leaves you with 425 points to play with...
I would add a 2nd ironclad w heavy flamer and chainfist (in case you have AV 14 the chainfist is better) in drop pod 180
That leaves you with 245 points... An easy would be a 2nd Stormtalon and then 2 attack bikes with MM to go tank hunting...
Or...210 for 5 Terminators with heavy flamer & chainfist and 30 points into teleport homers on 3 drop pods...
The perhaps a 3rd Tactical: with 8 men - combi-melta and melta in drop pod... to tank hunt and be the sacrificial squad... 178
Deathwind launches can provide your anti-hoard replacing the loss of the TFC. Losing all the one-off powerweapons for an ironclad or terminators is going to provide you with better decisive close combat units...
Sorry, but I choose 3 drop pods for 1 turn`s Drop Pod Assault....... It`s the only way I can drop Ironclad(Vehicle, Walker, etc.) and Sternguard(High Priority Target, Elite Infantry, PERHAPS Vehicle and Walker) in first turn.
But, your guess is right. My main priority is range firepower. Before I played PURE firepower army, I crushed by Tau, IG, and Deep Striking Deathmark Necron........ But using only one sternguard is for One-Turn-Glory. But I thought they are too great for only OTG, so I added Ironclad and so on.
It`s a mixed-up army, but I most prefer decent-ranged shooting then CC and Close range firepower.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/21 21:07:39
Subject: 1500 Space Marines Army - Need help
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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He's not overspending in AA. Quad guns can shoot ground targets and so can stormtalons. He'd be hard pressed against dual heldrake with this list as it is.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/21 21:15:23
Subject: Re:1500 Space Marines Army - Need help
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Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot
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I would love to comment on your list (as always with fellow vanilla palyers) but i am quite busy contacting the Inquisition. The heretic who spoke against the Thunderfire Cannon must be located and exterminated swiftly
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 08:16:34
Subject: 1500 Space Marines Army - Need help
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Both TFCs and the new cheaper Stormtalons are great (recommend taking skyhammer missiles instead), but you should take 2 or none.
Every game I've played and only taken 1 TFC, it gets FF'ed until its dead. Even with T7 and 3+ cover save (in ruins) you will still roll a couple of 1s and 2s.
Same goes for 1 Stormtalon, all of the other guys AA will be forced on killing 1 target and at only armour 11, it too will get shot down fast.
So 2 or none.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 09:07:56
Subject: 1500 Space Marines Army - Need help
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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DAaddict has given you very good advice and a strong list to build round. The biggest thing he's missed is the Typhoon should never be taken on the Stormtalon Skyhammer is by far the better option. That saves you 20 points right there. If you want to do fire power marines with a gunline then you are likely to struggle against the armies that excel at gun lines. SMs are a midrange to short range shooting army. If you want gunline here are the best options:
Libby no upgrades
Or!
MoTF: conversion bearer on a bike
Rifleman Dreads: two twin linked autocannons
Sniper Scouts: possibly with telion
5 Man Tac squads: combi and Razorback with las plas.
Landspeeder Typhoons
Stormtalons with Skyhammer missiles
Predators: autocannon turret, las or HB sponsors
Just take as much of the above as possible stick it behind an Aegis with Quadgun and you're good.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 09:57:19
Subject: 1500 Space Marines Army - Need help
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Fresh-Faced New User
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sam918 wrote:Both TFCs and the new cheaper Stormtalons are great (recommend taking skyhammer missiles instead), but you should take 2 or none.
Every game I've played and only taken 1 TFC, it gets FF'ed until its dead. Even with T7 and 3+ cover save (in ruins) you will still roll a couple of 1s and 2s.
Same goes for 1 Stormtalon, all of the other guys AA will be forced on killing 1 target and at only armour 11, it too will get shot down fast.
So 2 or none.
Come to think, how about Stormraven instead of ADL and TFC, etc at first roster?
Stormtalon can be great escort for Stormraven....... Wait. Which I can use Airborne Assault with Ironclad and Tactical Marines, so.......
Need lots of fix in my roster(not that one!) Automatically Appended Next Post: FlingitNow wrote:DAaddict has given you very good advice and a strong list to build round. The biggest thing he's missed is the Typhoon should never be taken on the Stormtalon Skyhammer is by far the better option. That saves you 20 points right there. If you want to do fire power marines with a gunline then you are likely to struggle against the armies that excel at gun lines. SMs are a midrange to short range shooting army. If you want gunline here are the best options:
Libby no upgrades
Or!
MoTF: conversion bearer on a bike
Rifleman Dreads: two twin linked autocannons
Sniper Scouts: possibly with telion
5 Man Tac squads: combi and Razorback with las plas.
Landspeeder Typhoons
Stormtalons with Skyhammer missiles
Predators: autocannon turret, las or HB sponsors
Just take as much of the above as possible stick it behind an Aegis with Quadgun and you're good.
Thanks for help, pal. I should use these above for next Gun Line Roster. My first roster is encounter for All-round up. It can provide Mid-Close early firepower and Decent Gun line......
on the other hand, it doesn`t have specified power both. I`ll consult your opinion. thanks.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/22 10:00:02
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 10:29:27
Subject: 1500 Space Marines Army - Need help
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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It sounds like you are trying to build an army that can do everything. You'll end up with an army that represents a tac squad. A tax squad can take options to do anything on the battle field. However it will never be good at any of those things so what you actually have is a unit (and therefore army) that does nothing. Space Marines more than most armies have to be streamlined to one roll because their inherent generalist nature is a big handicap.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 11:32:57
Subject: 1500 Space Marines Army - Need help
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Fresh-Faced New User
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FlingitNow wrote:It sounds like you are trying to build an army that can do everything. You'll end up with an army that represents a tac squad. A tax squad can take options to do anything on the battle field. However it will never be good at any of those things so what you actually have is a unit (and therefore army) that does nothing. Space Marines more than most armies have to be streamlined to one roll because their inherent generalist nature is a big handicap.
So I tried Gun Line Roster Like this.
HQ
Librarian w/ Null Zone and Other Psychic, Bolt Pistol and PA. (100pts)
Elite
Dreadnought w/ ML and PC (125pts)
Sternguard Veteran Squad w/ Drop Pod, 7 Combi-Melta, HF and PG. Sarge w/ Power Fist (365pts)
Troop
Scout Squad w/ 3 Sniper Rifles and a ML, Carrying Sergeant Telion and Camo Clock for all scouts. (150pts)
Tactical Squad w/ Drop Pod, Flamer and PC. Sarge w/ Combi-Flamer and Power Weapon (235pts)
Tactical Squad w/ LC, PG. Sarge w/ SB. (200pts)
Fast
Stormtalon Gunship w/Skyhammer ML (125pts)
Heavy
Thunderfire Cannon (100pts)
Fortification
Aegis Defense Line w/ Quad Gun (100pts)
How about it?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 13:17:01
Subject: 1500 Space Marines Army - Need help
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Yeah that's not a gunline DP sternguard don't fit. Dread is all over the place. Too many troops with not enough firepower! Take the units I mentioned above should be taken and any unit you do take (except troops choices) should be taken in at least pairs. A gunline would look like this:
Libby: Nullzone, Avenger
5 Tac marines: Razorback - Las plas
5 Tac marines: Razorback - Las plas
5 Sniper Scouts: camocloaks
Dread: 2 twinlinked autocannons
Dread: 2 twinlinked autocannons
Stormtalon: skyhammer
Stormtalon: skyhammer
Landspeeder Typhoon
Predator: las sponsons
Predator: HB sponsons
Predator: HB sponsons
Aegis: quadgun
You're presenting an armoured front and have tonnes of fire power. You've plenty of duel threat and lots of high strength shots. You're a threat to anything. Only really AV14 causes you problems but you have 4 lascannons and 2 assault cannons for that. You could shift a few things around to get some combimeltas in if you're worried.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 14:41:15
Subject: 1500 Space Marines Army - Need help
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Mindless Servitor
Clarksville, Tn
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Keep the thunder fire cannon. Everytime I play my Necrons and IG against one, it becomes a pain in my side.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/22 14:41:49
6000 Pts of Ultramarines
3500 Pts of Imperial Guard
4000 Pts of Necrons
1500 Pts Of Eldar
Still got to build my Tyranids |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 15:35:25
Subject: 1500 Space Marines Army - Need help
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Fresh-Faced New User
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FlingitNow wrote:Yeah that's not a gunline DP sternguard don't fit. Dread is all over the place. Too many troops with not enough firepower! Take the units I mentioned above should be taken and any unit you do take (except troops choices) should be taken in at least pairs. A gunline would look like this:
Libby: Nullzone, Avenger
5 Tac marines: Razorback - Las plas
5 Tac marines: Razorback - Las plas
5 Sniper Scouts: camocloaks
Dread: 2 twinlinked autocannons
Dread: 2 twinlinked autocannons
Stormtalon: skyhammer
Stormtalon: skyhammer
Landspeeder Typhoon
Predator: las sponsons
Predator: HB sponsons
Predator: HB sponsons
Aegis: quadgun
You're presenting an armoured front and have tonnes of fire power. You've plenty of duel threat and lots of high strength shots. You're a threat to anything. Only really AV14 causes you problems but you have 4 lascannons and 2 assault cannons for that. You could shift a few things around to get some combimeltas in if you're worried.
Huh, Guess I have to sell rest of the army to make these..... just kidding.
It is hard to get Autocannons for dreadnought in here, so I`ll follow up if I can.
Maybe just minor change at first should be better.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/22 15:41:51
Subject: 1500 Space Marines Army - Need help
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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I converted mine from an ADL quadgun
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