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Entering 1750 Tournament at FLGS. Is this Competitive? C&C please.

HQ
Commander - 177pts
- Iridium Battlesuit
- Nero Web Jammer
- Advanced Targeting System
- Drone Controller
- 2x Plasma Rifle (2 separate weapons, FAQ confirmed legal)
- 2x Marker Drones

Bodyguard Unit (2 Bodyguards in unit)
2x BG - 158pts
Each with
- TLPR
- Fusion Blaster
- 1x Shield Drone

Ethereal - 74pts
- 2x Shield Drones

Elites
6x Stealth Suits - 190pts
- 2x Fusion Blasters

Riptide 1 - 190pts
- TLFB + Ion accelerator
- Early Warning System

Riptide 2 - 190pts
- TLFB + Ion accelerator
- Early Warning System

Troops
10x Fire Warriors - 90pts

10x Fire Warriors - 90pts

10x Fire Warriors - 90pts

10x Kroot - 70pts
- Sniper rounds

Fast Attack
5x Pathfinders - 55pts

5x Pathfinders - 55pts

6x Pathfinders - 66pts

Heavy Support
Broadside Battlesuit Team (2 in unit)- 204pts
Each with:
- HYMP
- SMS
- 1x Seeker Missile
- Early Warning Override
- 2x Missile Drone

Fortifications
ADL - 50pts

Total: 1749pts

While i agree with killing oncoming reserves before they get to do anything, I think 3 units with interceptor is a bit much, if you don't pop those flyers as they come on, then you're stuck snap shooting at them. Personally, I go with skyfire on my riptides and interceptor on my missilesides.

The only other thing i would change is, lose the SDs from the ethereal and join him to some warriors, 10 extra wounds is always better than 2 invulns in my book.

Broadside Interceptor are for dealing with flyers while RIptide Interceptors are for dropping large pieplates of awesomeness on deep striking and out flanking reserves not so much for shooting down flyers. So far i have found the Broadsides to be more than enough for flyers.

I was thinking the same about the Ethereal, With the new rules, when he has drones does he count as an IC?
I was planning to put him in the Broadside squad with his drones if he is able, if not just drop the drones and add him to the Broadside squad which will also be behind my ADL with the Firewarriors and Kroot Conga (Supporting Fire Shenanigans)

So when i play against Tau i should not have reserves right? Riptides are amazing and marker lights are amazing. If i know im goin up against Tau do i just put everything on the board? This new tau has added a very cool dynamic to the game. I like the list. If i play you im gonna have to ask "mother may I" on everything. Lol

 Ineedvc2500 wrote:
So when i play against Tau i should not have reserves right? Riptides are amazing and marker lights are amazing. If i know im goin up against Tau do i just put everything on the board? This new tau has added a very cool dynamic to the game. I like the list. If i play you im gonna have to ask "mother may I" on everything. Lol

Lol. I think the best way to deal with Tau is to get the multi assault on them. The best way to do this im not so sure. You have to get alot of units close without getting shot up. They can only mass over-watch once per assault phase, so if you have more than 1 unit assaulting you should be ok. Whats your army?

If your ever in London we can have a game

Csm with heldrakes oblits and termies. Thinkin about expanding to daemons to get access to soulgrinders. All of which have deepstrike lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tau can intercept deepstrikers and fliers riight? At least thats what ive been told. Id have to get really lucky (aka you roll horribly) to get my termies close without transport or deepstriking. Same with heldrakes, oblits, and every DoC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im gonna deepstrike into london. Lol

Between your kitted out Broadsides and the Commander and 2 bodyguards you are spending 539 points on 5 models. I'm am of the belief that having more models with less upgrades is a better strategy.

I think 4 squads of 12 FWs and at least one Hammerhead and one Sky Ray would make for a better rounded list. I'd drop the commander and the bodyguards, they just cost too much for what they do. You can get some cheaper suits in the Elite slot. Fireblades are a good HQ option. Pretty cheap and they have a BS 5 Markerlight, splitfire, and volley (which is better than the Etheral version). I'd drop the Broadsides down to the basics and take 3. Maybe put some rail rifles on one of the pathfinder's squads. Also, look into droping a riptide, they're a good unit but costly. Stealth suits are too expensive to really be worth it. I'd take a 10 man pathfinder team with 3 railrifles any day.

You don't have a large volume of fire in this army and that will come back to haunt you. I also think that you need some markerlights.

Just throwing this out there:

HQ
Fireblade - 60 points
Fireblade - 60 points

Elites
3X Crisis Suits - 190 points
2 Shield Drones, 2 Plasma Rifles, and Shas'vre

3X Crisis Suits - 190 points
2 Shield Drones, 2 Plasma Rifles, and Shas'vre

Riptide 1 - 190pts
- TLFB + Ion accelerator
- Early Warning System

Troops
12x Fire Warriors - 108pts
12x Fire Warriors - 108pts
12x Fire Warriors - 108pts
12x Fire Warriors - 108pts

Fast Attack
4x Pathfinders - 44pts
4x Pathfinders - 44pts
4x Pathfinders - 44pts

Heavy Support
Broadside Battlesuit Team X3 - 195pts

Hammerhead - 131 points
Submunition, Blacksun Filter, SMS

Sky Ray - 116 points
Blacksun Filter, SMS

Fortifications
ADL - 50pts

The Fireblades are pretty good and cheap HQs. They will add a good boost of firepower to whatever squad they join. Remember, they let the unit fire an extra shot (so 2 at 30" and 3 at 15", and they get to fire a markerlight at BS 5 at a different target than the rest of the squad). Thats 72 shots at 30" and 120 shots at 15" (2 squads with a Fireblade and 2 squads without); all from the comfort of the ADL.

Hammerheads and Sky Rays are too versitile and powerful to be left off a Tau list. Sure, Broadsides are nice but they don't pack the punch of a HH and are a lot more expensive than the Sky Ray. Plus Jink and a Front AV of 13 makes the tanks pretty survivable.

Lets be very very clear about this. If you buy 2 weapons of the same type they are twin linked. It is only if you buy 3 weapons of the same type that you get 1 twin linked and 1 Normal weapon.

Codex says where there are two prices the second is for two weapons that count as twin linked.

I can see what your saying. The key to this list is force multipliers. It has much more fire power than perceived.

In comparison to your list it has in fact more markerlights for a total of 16 to 18.

The markers carried by the commander are BS5 and with JsJ, much more monerverable than 2 fireblade marker lights that can only fire from a static position. They are also on a much more sturdy platform than the skyray. With only 2 tanks in the army they will be getting all antitank weapons directed at them first, and no matter what cover save you have. The commander is geard to snipe out the most dangerous members of a unit with his advance targeting system. meaning that he is not only providing marker support but taking out the main threats to my force (My main opponent uses an excess of blast masters and las cannons)

This increased amount of mobile markerlights really multiplies the available firepower to the army so it can put out a lot more reliable shots. The ethereal also adds to this by allowing up to 90 S5 shots within 15". Although its not as many as the 2 fireblades the Ethereal gives you the ability to increase to a comparable amount of firewarrior shots in rapidfire while leaving 1 HQ slot free for the Commander and bodyguards.
Also If you can increase a riptides BS to 6, which only takes 3 marker hits it would allow the riptides to re-roll any gets hot rolls, 5 hits would allow them to ignore cover too. For that reason and others i would prefer 2 Riptides over a hammerhead and skyray.

You also have relativity low anti flyer. Unless you plan to give each crisis TLMP and Skyfire/Interceptor there's not much you have on the table to handle multiplier flyers. And without EWO and HYMP on the broadsides flyers would come in a murder your guys even before you get to retaliate. I would rather use melta to take out Armor 13+ from the stealth's and crisis than lose th HYMP to the inferior Heavy Rail on the broadside.
That many crisis suits could be a solution but its a large footprint on the table with nowhere near the offensive capabilities and range of the 2 riptides. A riptide owns the whole table while the Crisis suits have an effective 30" threat range..

I do really like the idea of 2 Fireblades and in 2000 Duel FOC i would take 2 fore sure, even dropping the ethereal if needed. Have you thought about the problem of low leadership on the fire warriors/patfinders due to lack of Ethereal?

With any new codex theres going to be alot of diffeent list combinations and maybe im missing that synerginistic element that makes yours work for you. I think your list would be competitive in he hands of the right player. I just don't think it matches my play style

Right... but if I buy two 15 point plasma rifles they should be two separate rifles. Until FAQ'd, that's how it reads.

So, you could do a Flamer and two plasma rifles for 35 points. Or you could twinlink that one plasma rifle and do a flamer for 25 points.

Thatguyoverthere11 wrote:
Right... but if I buy two 15 point plasma rifles they should be two separate rifles. Until FAQ'd, that's how it reads.

So, you could do a Flamer and two plasma rifles for 35 points. Or you could twinlink that one plasma rifle and do a flamer for 25 points.

Hes right, you have the choice whether to buy the twin linked or not, Theres nothing that states you have to buy TL first. You can choose to have 2 separate. Thats the way i read it anyway. (enjoy it until it gets FAQ'd)

So 4 Rapid fire shots at 12" with precision shots on a 5/6 can really pick out enemy special weapons and characters.

Sigh.

Lets work through this because I believe you are Easter egg hunting. Remember that in 40k rules the most obvious interpretations is often the correct one, to gain advantage is not right.

From the codex:

Where a weapon has two points cost, the first is for a standard, single version.

Here we see you pay 15 points you get 1 plasma gun.

, and the second is for two weapons (counting as a twin-linked of that type).

Here we see if you buy 2 weapons you do not pay twice the amount for 2 separate guns you pay the second price (20 points for 2 plasma guns) and get a twin linked version of the gun.

You know deep down inside you are not correct so don't play it as such. Take the 3 weapon version as a happy improvement on the old codex's wording in which it was stated "No model may carry three of the same weapons systems"

Mate, im not alone in this thinking, and untill its FAQ'd people will play it like this as it does not explicitly say you cant.

Simple as. If its such an issue for you, write a stern letter to GW about their wording policies and see what reply you get. I'd be interested to hear it.

I agree that the weapons would be twin linked but like they said, until its faq'ed people are going to read it how they want

FAQ has been updated. Separate Non-Twinlinked versions of the same Weapon are totally legal.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3170231a_Tau_Empire_v1.0_APRIL13.pdf

The Easter egg was real

Thornoo1 wrote:
Lets be very very clear about this. If you buy 2 weapons of the same type they are twin linked. It is only if you buy 3 weapons of the same type that you get 1 twin linked and 1 Normal weapon.

Codex says where there are two prices the second is for two weapons that count as twin linked.

Not according to the FAQ. It even says you can buy three Burst Cannons and make them non-Twin Linked as long as you pay the points and let your opponent know. So now that the "if you buy two they have to be twin-linked nonesense is over" people can provide intelligent comments about your list.

 Davespil wrote:

Thornoo1 wrote:
Lets be very very clear about this. If you buy 2 weapons of the same type they are twin linked. It is only if you buy 3 weapons of the same type that you get 1 twin linked and 1 Normal weapon.

Codex says where there are two prices the second is for two weapons that count as twin linked.

Not according to the FAQ. It even says you can buy three Burst Cannons and make them non-Twin Linked as long as you pay the points and let your opponent know. So now that the "if you buy two they have to be twin-linked nonesense is over" people can provide intelligent comments about your list.

Would be much appreciated, although I have a feeling certain people are going to have to go away and have a total rethink about Crisis setups.

@Davespil: Was wondering why you included Shas've in your crisis teams. Was that purely for the increase leadership? I currently dont have the models to run more than 3 crisis and a commander hence using 2 as bodyguards to free up the elite slot for the Stealths. I was actually planning to run the Commander Solo so he can mark for the Crisis bodyguards as their dedicated marker support.
the 2 5 man squads support the riptides with the 6 man squad supporting whatever needs it. Redundancy is the spice of life



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Thornoo1 wrote:

You know deep down inside you are not correct so don't play it as such.

Not to gloat but i really like this part

I was wrong.

Thornoo1 wrote:
I was wrong.

Takes a good person to admit that. We all get it wrong sometimes.
It was fairly ambiguous, even i doubted it.
I seriously only realised yesterday its only troops and scoring units that benifit from mysterious objectives. been playing it wrong since 6th dropped.


Any ideas for optimal load outs?

Thornoo1 wrote:
@Davespil: Was wondering why you included Shas've in your crisis teams. Was that purely for the increase leadership? I currently dont have the models to run more than 3 crisis and a commander hence using 2 as bodyguards to free up the elite slot for the Stealths. I was actually planning to run the Commander Solo so he can mark for the Crisis bodyguards as their dedicated marker support.
the 2 5 man squads support the riptides with the 6 man squad supporting whatever needs it. Redundancy is the spice of life

For some reason I though that you needed a Shas've to get the shield drones. Which I now know you don't. So I'd not take a Shas'vre and save 10 points. I think commanders and bodyguards are a waste of points. Take a 3 man crisis team instead. As far as supporting, you mean markerlight support, correct? 5 and 6 man squads may be a little much. Maybe three 4 man squads can do the trick and you can save 44 points.

Honestly, I think Fireblades are an excellent HQ chioce. They give a FW squad a nice boost to their shooting and provide a BS 5 Markerlight with Splitfire.

The thing about the whole take two weapons and it must mean its twin-linked argument is they never said that if you did take two that it had to be twin-linked in the codex. People adding all kinds of extra meaning to the wording because its not their army. Thats what gets me.

 Messy0 wrote:


Heavy Support
Broadside Battlesuit Team (2 in unit)- 204pts
Each with:
- HYMP
- SMS
- 1x Seeker Missile
- Early Warning Override
- 2x Missile Drone

I like the list, but why would you take interceptor with intent to deal with flyers, if you dont have skyfire? or am i missing something.

Also i know its alot of points, but a stim injector on riptides seems worth it. Since FNP is not a save, i think if im reading correctly you should be able to take it if that nova reactor thing fails.

Tsilber wrote:

 Messy0 wrote:


Heavy Support
Broadside Battlesuit Team (2 in unit)- 204pts
Each with:
- HYMP
- SMS
- 1x Seeker Missile
- Early Warning Override
- 2x Missile Drone

I like the list, but why would you take interceptor with intent to deal with flyers, if you dont have skyfire? or am i missing something.


Also i know its alot of points, but a stim injector on riptides seems worth it. Since FNP is not a save, i think if im reading correctly you should be able to take it if that nova reactor thing fails.

The way i see it. The missilesides put out enough shots not to warrant skyfire. With the drones they put out 16 S7 shots with 8 being Twinlinked. And since they dont have target lock they cant split fire.
So thats 16 shots at a single flier even if it is only hitting on 6's. Which should be more than enough to bring it down without spending the points on an expensive upgrade. With interceptor it can shoot it down before it even gets the chance to attack

As for FNP on the Rips. It was a toss up between that and a ADL. I got 2 Riptides and i dont plan to be nova chargin much so i spend the points protectin my Firewarriors. The way i see it overharge is just as good with the IA and has a 1/36 chance of causing a wound. Plus i have always felt feel no pain is abit cheese

I see, however do the Missile drones get the EWO ? I thought drones counted as addition squad members for all puposes, so kinda like a drone is an addition squad member and EWO only effect the weapons on the model who has the EWO. Hence the Broadside

Still heavy 4, heavy 2 and a seeker is still 7 shots per model.

As for riptides and the FNP, what did you mean IA has 1/36? i think you lost me there.

 Messy0 wrote:

Tsilber wrote:

 Messy0 wrote:


Heavy Support
Broadside Battlesuit Team (2 in unit)- 204pts
Each with:
- HYMP
- SMS
- 1x Seeker Missile
- Early Warning Override
- 2x Missile Drone

I like the list, but why would you take interceptor with intent to deal with flyers, if you dont have skyfire? or am i missing something.


Also i know its alot of points, but a stim injector on riptides seems worth it. Since FNP is not a save, i think if im reading correctly you should be able to take it if that nova reactor thing fails.

The way i see it. The missilesides put out enough shots not to warrant skyfire. With the drones they put out 16 S7 shots with 8 being Twinlinked. And since they dont have target lock they cant split fire.
So thats 16 shots at a single flier even if it is only hitting on 6's. Which should be more than enough to bring it down without spending the points on an expensive upgrade. With interceptor it can shoot it down before it even gets the chance to attack

As for FNP on the Rips. It was a toss up between that and a ADL. I got 2 Riptides and i dont plan to be nova chargin much so i spend the points protectin my Firewarriors. The way i see t overharge is just as god with the IA and has a 1/36 chance of causing a wound. Plus i have always felt feel no pain is abit cheese

Problem is while interceptor effects all weapons, the multitracker does not work during the movement phase. The Multitracker is limit to the shooting phase.

@Tsilber: Thats a really good point and i hadn't really thought of that. On the plus side, does that mean if my XV88's fire using interceptor, can the missile drones then fire in the Shooting phase as they did not shoot using EWO (interceptor) and at a different target?

That does take something away from my anti air, 8 TL shots will be far less effective. Can you see any way to improve my anti air. I feel sky fire is too many points when that many TL shots can do the job.

the 1/36 chance to take a wound is the result of if you get a 1 on overheat, then roll another 1 for your saving throw.

@Barnowl: If I understand you correctly, if the XV88's fire their main HYMP they cant also fire their SMS while intercepting as multi tracker only works in the shooting phase?

@Davespil: The thing i like most about bodyguards is that for 20 points (for 2) you basically get another elite slot with slightly better crisis suits. The ability to auto LoS! and take signature systems is just a bonus. Its the opportunity cost of getting another elite slot i can use for stealth suits (or crisis/riptides when i eventually get more).

I agree Fireblades are good, but they only buff 1 squad and bring 1 ML. Id rather an Ethereal for 10 less points that can buff multiple squads. I reckon its a bigger multiplier.

Perhaps Keep the broadsides as they are?

Interceptor and all, and use them for ground dropping deepstrikers. Fire the HYMP on interceptor, and then the missile drones and missile pods on the broadsides can fire the next shooting phase.

Perhaps consider a VT + EWO for the riptide with his heavy ion. 3 str 7 shots? But at least its ap 2, so +1 to the roll. I dont know mate.
Seems like they boned the broadsides by not being able to get EWO + VT.

Perhaps drop interceptor on the broadsides, take sky fire and wait till your turn.

I think you are over estimating the damage snapfired HYMPs do to fliers. Th odds of blowing up an AV12 flier with 2 HYMP is about 4.5%:

=((1/6 hit)+((5/6)*(1/6) rerolled hit))*(1/6 pen armor)*(2/3 failed jink)*(1/6 destroyed roll) times 8 shots

Even to take a one hull point is not that good at 54.3% chance of one hull point:

=((1/6 hit)+((5/6)*(1/6) rerolled hit))*(1/3 pen or glance armor)*(2/3 failed jink) times 8 shots

The odds do increase with lower armored fliers, but do not expect helldrakes and the like to be afraid.

The Wraith

whats your plan for heavy armor? I think you should switch out the 2 plasma rifles on one of your crisis teams to get fusion blasters. Youre still able to wipe out TEQ and you can have something to deal with advancing heavy armor.

the_wraith wrote:I think you are over estimating the damage snapfired HYMPs do to fliers. Th odds of blowing up an AV12 flier with 2 HYMP is about 4.5%:

=((1/6 hit)+((5/6)*(1/6) rerolled hit))*(1/6 pen armor)*(2/3 failed jink)*(1/6 destroyed roll) times 8 shots

Even to take a one hull point is not that good at 54.3% chance of one hull point:

=((1/6 hit)+((5/6)*(1/6) rerolled hit))*(1/3 pen or glance armor)*(2/3 failed jink) times 8 shots

The odds do increase with lower armored fliers, but do not expect helldrakes and the like to be afraid.

The Wraith

When you put it like that it does sound much less effective. There are also the Riptides but they are really not there to be shooting down flyers, more for deepstrikers/outflankers.
Another broadside would greatly increase the anti air, and the Drones and then shoot in the next shooting phase.
Any other ideas on how to boost the anti-air?

generalchaos34 wrote:whats your plan for heavy armor? I think you should switch out the 2 plasma rifles on one of your crisis teams to get fusion blasters. Youre still able to wipe out TEQ and you can have something to deal with advancing heavy armor.

Plans for heavy armor are the Crisis and Stealths. Steals can be surprisingly reliant if used correctly and with 2 fusion blasters they will be hunting Tanks. The Crisis suits are Also dedicated Tank hunters. I have been thinking of instead of TLPR and FB running TLFB and PR for more accuracy (still backed up by marker lights). A better idea?

In my meta, AV14 tanks are quite rare with most marine players not using as many Land Raiders and i have only faced one Monolith since 6th came out (if i remember correctly melta doesnt work against Monoliths). Other than that my anti-heavy armor is limited.

A solution to both problems may be adding in 2 broadsides with Heavy Rail Rifles, its just a matter of what to switch out. Im reluctant to swap the Stealths for 2 TL S8 AP1 guns when they are already carrying 2 fusions and 16 BC shots. The seekers were places on the broadsides to try and add some extra anti-armor but the only real alternative is adding a Hammerhead but i feel 1 tank will just get shot down quickly.
The way i see it is if they are using armor 14 like a land raider its going to be heading towards my lines where the Stealths and Crisis will be waiting with their fusions. If it really hits the fan i can Nova charge the Riptides but this is less than ideal.