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So this is a pretty straight-forward question. What type of paints do I need to buy that are non-Citadel paints? I don't have the money to buy paints for all that money so I want to buy in bulk. I think it would involve just going to Michael's and buying Acrylic paints because that's what my artsy friend told me that the Citadel paints were.

Thanks!

Citadel paints are Acrylics, but the medium they use is a little different to regular artists acrylics.
Citadels tends to be thinner, and has a finish towards the matt side of things.

To make your own from the artists supply shop youre going to want some matt medium, flow aid, fluid retarder and some colours.
I really like Liquitex brand mediums, they tend to cost a little more than some other brands, but not a great deal and will last ages for model painting purposes. They do matt and Ultra matt mediums, both are good and have their uses, Ultra encourages opacity, while regular encourages transparency.

To be honest for the price of picking up a decent shopping list at the art store it is comparible to getting a whole range of citadels.

To make washes you will need acrylic inks and matt medium. Liquitex do some lovely inks too (Daler rowney also make some great ones)

The artists acrylics come in 2 varieties usually; soft body and heavy body (or thick and 'thin) ... soft body is still very thick compared to a citadel product, and once thinned down to usable levels on models, they often lack colour intensity and require several coatings. That said it is a cheap way of having a paint in bulk for projects where a citadel pot is a mockable quanitity, maybe painting a table or scenery colours.

Craft acrylics (usually come in 60ml bottles with flip tops) might be a bit more suitable being a little thinner in the pot, but dont come in the same bulk as the big brand artists acrylics.

You could look to other companies of paint aimed at modelers and wargamers, perhaps vallejo, p3, army painter... i'm sure dakka can throw more names your way too.

edit; Eg for my basing I use Windsor and Newton Galeria Burnt Umber mixed with W&N Galeria Mineral Texture Gel and a spot of liquitex ultra matt medium to provide a texture and a basecoat similar to but not the same as Scorched Brown (Rhinox Hide) maybe a shade darker.

I already have a wide selection of artists acrylics at hand as I use them in airbrushing canvases and they are useful for my GW figures but i still prefer citadel's for general painting of models, its more convinient than having to mix up colours in bulk for armies etc, I can just go to Gw and pick up another pot and have a real complaint if the shade isnt matching my previous ones

Some people say they get good results with the craft . I've tried some, for instance doing a lot of black on something. I fins it finishes a bit less resilient and a bit on the powdery side. However, once you start doing washes and layers over, say a base coat of craft paint ( not priming, mind you ), it stays on fine. And as long as you seal your model at the end it shouldn't matter too much.

Also, if you have a local store you go to, ask a few people if they have some nearly dry pots. I've recovered pots in every condition except 90-100% completely cured. You just need something that's really firm with some flat edges, water, and patience. The paint just needs to be wet to begin with... Even if it has the texture of thick mud. And a few drops of water and work your stirrer of choice in other to combine. It takes time to work it back into usability, but you might be able to get some free or really cheap paints just from the stuff they might toss out. ( I had to recover paints that hadn't been touched in almost 8-10 years). They won't always be exactly like a nice new pot of paint is, but definitely usable.

Defining your budget and needs, as well as how comfortable you are with color theory and mixing paints would help a bit...but lacking that, I'll give you a run down of options.

A lot of different brands are cheaper than GW (actually...all of them, or nearly all of them). You can pick up Reaper MSP, Valejo or P3 from any number of sources:

http://www.miniaturemarket.com/accessories/model-paints.html

http://www.miniature-giant.com/master-paint-singles-Reaper-paint-c-567.html

That would provide you with excellent set of paints, for a substantial savings over GW.

Following that, you can look at quality artist paints like Liquitex Soft Body Acrylics or Golden Fluid Acrylics. They feature very fine pigments in extremely high densities which allows them to be thinned down quite a bit. A basic assortment of colors in either brand will run you $20-30 and provide the needed colors to mix almost any color you need. Pick up some empty bottles (dropper bottles from a company like US Plastics for example at about 25 cents each). Sit down and mix a few dozen colors and record the formula so you can replicate it later. You will also probably want some of the additives Hairy mentions...but those are luxuries you can skip on.

After that would be craft paints. They are a bit variable in quality, but dirt cheap. A big bottle (relatively speaking) can be had for a dollar or so...when stores like Michaels and Hobby Lobby have them on sale, they can be gotten even cheaper.

Somewhere that is about inline with the art paints (maybe a bit more expensive) but still cheaper than hobby paints are airbrush paints. Most the craft stores will stock a brand like Createx, which are a good quality paint. They are prethinned for airbrushing, which ends up putting them not too far away from the proper consistency for brush painting (little thinner than I like...but workable). Sets can be had for around $15 for 6 colors in...I think 2 ounce bottles. Again, mixing and what not...but less need for additives because they are thinned already.

For a rich, fleshy blood colour you can't go past Tamiya red tail-light tinter. (n all hobby shops).

it's like a transparent red liquid and works like a wash but is thicker. Paint a ase coat of mechrite red foundation, cover with blood red, then the tamiya and you'll be amazed how life like it looks!

Have to ask a question here as well... I always have trouble painting white smoothly onto a black base coat, even once I've brought it up with a multitude of greys to be fortress grey. GW white just seems to be too thin... are Reaper, Tamiya, and Valejo paints the same way, or does one of the lines have a superb white compared to GW's base/layer coats?

Ditto for bright red.

I would look at either Reaper paints, or Vallejo, they are both excellent quality, and can easily be diluted to shoot through an airbrush.

P3 Whites are extremely good - most seem to perform better than the old GW white in terms of coverage (I have not used the most recent formulation of GW paints though...so they might have moved up on the rankings).

On the reds, VGC is pretty good...though so is P3. For the special tool in the kit, Reaper's HD paints provide an excellent coverage base red color. Brilliant Red is Brilliant and Red.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
P3 Whites are extremely good - most seem to perform better than the old GW white in terms of coverage (I have not used the most recent formulation of GW paints though...so they might have moved up on the rankings).

On the reds, VGC is pretty good...though so is P3. For the special tool in the kit, Reaper's HD paints provide an excellent coverage base red color. Brilliant Red is Brilliant and Red.

Thanks man, will add those paints to my collection and test them out, need all the help I can get painting an all white army hehe.

White Primer...brown ink.

I don't think I have used black primer in 10 years or so - and I am a much happier painter for it...with the exception of a few special projects that were almost entirely metal. It is a lot easier to put black over white than it is to put white over black...or for that matter almost any color over black. The only time black really excels is for metallic because of the back scatter issues relating to them. Even then, white primer...then black before metal on the areas that need it.

I have used GW, Vallejo, P3 and Minitaire.

If you are using an airbrush I highly recommend minitaire. You get more paint for your dollar (30ml bottles).

Vallejo is good when you need a shortcut for some weird color that cannot be found elsewhere. Lots of choice. In performance it's allright.

Overall P3 works really good. Smooth application, mixes well, dillutes well and works well with airbrush when properly diluted.

GW is allright again when you need a really weird specific color but some colors do not perform as well as others.

If cost is your only reason from staying away from GW (instead of price per oz, hating the paint-wasting pots, or not wanting to support GW (hopefully you're painting Hordes or something, then. ) you're not going to find something of the same caliber at a significantly lower price point.

Price per oz, I believe Vallejo Panzer Aces won, followed by Vallejo Model Color and then P3 before Vallejo Game Color. I could be wrong -- I can't seem to find the video that did all the research for me.

But if those are out of your budget, craft paints will do you fine. In my experience, craft paints are too thick for my taste so you'll have to thin them. Hit up Michael's or Hobby Lobby with their 40% off coupon and get a big bottle of matte medium, then go back the next day with the same coupon and get Flow Aid.

Matney X wrote:
If cost is your only reason from staying away from GW (instead of price per oz, hating the paint-wasting pots, or not wanting to support GW (hopefully you're painting Hordes or something, then. ) you're not going to find something of the same caliber at a significantly lower price point.

Price per oz, I believe Vallejo Panzer Aces won, followed by Vallejo Model Color and then P3 before Vallejo Game Color. I could be wrong -- I can't seem to find the video that did all the research for me.

But if those are out of your budget, craft paints will do you fine. In my experience, craft paints are too thick for my taste so you'll have to thin them. Hit up Michael's or Hobby Lobby with their 40% off coupon and get a big bottle of matte medium, then go back the next day with the same coupon and get Flow Aid.

Also don't forget that Hobby Lobby is now stocking Vallejo Model Color, and while they are geared more towards historical models they have some great colors and run about $3.00

 darefsky wrote:

Matney X wrote:
If cost is your only reason from staying away from GW (instead of price per oz, hating the paint-wasting pots, or not wanting to support GW (hopefully you're painting Hordes or something, then. ) you're not going to find something of the same caliber at a significantly lower price point.

Price per oz, I believe Vallejo Panzer Aces won, followed by Vallejo Model Color and then P3 before Vallejo Game Color. I could be wrong -- I can't seem to find the video that did all the research for me.

But if those are out of your budget, craft paints will do you fine. In my experience, craft paints are too thick for my taste so you'll have to thin them. Hit up Michael's or Hobby Lobby with their 40% off coupon and get a big bottle of matte medium, then go back the next day with the same coupon and get Flow Aid.

Also don't forget that Hobby Lobby is now stocking Vallejo Model Color, and while they are geared more towards historical models they have some great colors and run about $3.00

Yup. HL is the only craft/hobby store within walking distance from my house, so I'm there all the time.

Hit up hobby lobby with the 40% off coupon for Vallejo Model Colors sets.... ;o) ...

Matney X wrote:
If cost is your only reason from staying away from GW (instead of price per oz, hating the paint-wasting pots, or not wanting to support GW (hopefully you're painting Hordes or something, then. ) you're not going to find something of the same caliber at a significantly lower price point.

A lot of the "same caliber" related issues are a question of preference. Most non-GW paints are cheaper per unit than GW, plus they offer package deals on top of that. The pigment grind is arguably finer on almost all paints other than GW (this is a measureable fact...a fact which was in fact measured when Badger produced their Minitaire line of paints...GW used the coarsest pigments of all the paints that they tested while formulating). There are certain properties that some people do like about GW paints - though more often then not, they are hard pressed to actually tell you what property that is when you ask. Usually it comes down to something about being able to go online and read a post from someone in Zimbabwe who says they painted their figure with X paint color and do the same with the same paint here...

If you look strictly at the MSRP of different lines of paints, you have:

Privateer Press P3 - $3.50 (15 mL)
Army Painter - $2.99 (17 mL)
Reaper HD/MSP - $3.29 (17 mL)
Vallejo GC/MC/PA/AC - $3.29 (17 mL)
Renaissance Ink - $2.50 (29 mL)
Coat d'Arms - $2.50 (18 mL)
Badger Minitaire - $3.33 (30 mL)
Foundry - $5.25 (18 mL)
Tamiya - $3.40 (23 mL)
Testors Model Masters - $3.69 (15 mL)

and finally...

GW - $3.70 (12 mL).

Not an all inclusive list - but it does hit the majority of paints which are used on miniatures with some regularity. The only two items which have a higher MSRP than GW are the Foundry which costs 41% more for 50% more paint...though you can get a cost savings on their paints by buying in their Triad or Set packages (the triads retail for $14 IIRC for three bottles of paint - base, highlight and shade).

All of them are larger bottles than what GW uses, with the 25% larger being the smallest bottle size and many of them being 50% or more larger than the GW bottles. All of them can be found without much difficulty at 25-40% off retail price, but even without getting into those discounts which are generally higher than you find GW paints discounted...you can get a significant savings - just on a per unit price, especially when you are looking at buying 20 or 30 different colors or more.

Minitaire is $3.33 MSRP for 30 ml, but good summary. You can sometimes get 50% off the Minitaire set which makes it $1.70 per 30 ml bottle but you did mention how GW discounts are bad. Vallejo and Minitaire have good discounts, but not sure about the others.

Worth mentioning GW also have the worst container (subjective, but to most people?) and have objectively worsened them from their previous versions supposedly? This results in some combination of more wasted paint as it dries during use, lower quality paint as it cures and you get chunks in it, and it is harder to use with a palette or wet palette and much harder to use in an airbrush. Though this applies with other tubs too compared to dropper bottles, and is somewhat subjective as some people do prefer tubs to bottles.

One last dig at GW! They're $6 RRP in Australia and suffer from GWs regional pricing in other countries too. So $6 for 12 ml from GW or $1.70 for 30 ml from Minitaire - hmmmmm. Tough call innit ; )

Xyrael wrote:
Have to ask a question here as well... I always have trouble painting white smoothly onto a black base coat, even once I've brought it up with a multitude of greys to be fortress grey. GW white just seems to be too thin... are Reaper, Tamiya, and Valejo paints the same way, or does one of the lines have a superb white compared to GW's base/layer coats?

Here is a very easy method I recently discovered:

It consists of 1 Basecoat, 1 Wash and 1 Highlight, and gives you a nice shaded white finish.

Essential preparation:

1. Get some matte medium (from Michaels, any art store or online).
Mix Nuln Oil (Badab Black) half-n-half with matte medium.
Add a bit of water (preferably with some Flow Improver). A few drops (8-12) will do, if you mix in the Nuln Oil pot.
Keep in mind that matte medium is white BUT it dries clear.

This preparation might seem overwhelming to some, but it makes AAAALLLLL the difference.
You might think; "Oh, man. Matte Medium? That is like for Pros! I really don't paint enough to warrant that".
Shut up! Just trust me and get it. You will not regret it at all.

2. Get GWs Ceramite White base paint.

3. Get Vallejo Model Air White.

Painting:

Basecoat with GWs Ceramite White.
Here we are making the best use of the coverage that the GW Base paint provides.
This coat doesn't have to be perfect. Just be as neat as you can be bothered to be. Some streaking is ok.
If you are painting the entire (or the majority) of the model white you can just spray a white basecoat on.

Wash with your Nuln Oil/Matte Medium mix.
Because we have mixed with Matte Medium it doesn't taint the model as much and it flows a lot better.
The amount of wash you need......I can't tell you. You really need to try it on a model and see.
The wash will look white and kinda pale, but it will dry black.
Don't let the wash gather on large flat areas (it will make your work a LOT easier later). Just run the brush over the area one more time to move it a bit.

Highlight with the Vallejo Model Air White.
Here we are making use of the qualities that Vallejo Model Air provides.
Since this is a paint made for airbrush use it is thin, but with the same intensity of colour that we are used to.
Now you highlight the white leaving the shaded areas untouched.
Do not slopper this white on. As the paint is rather thin it tends to run all over. Just put a little bit on your brush and highlight.
Start with the extreme edges, and cover more and more until you like the result.

Thats it.

Buy Vallejo. It has more paint than GW, a wider range of colors(with Model Air, Panzer Aces, Model Color and Game Color), much more cheaper and you get more. Plus they're in dropper bottles.

I'm slowly switching all my paints to Vallejo: all the GW ones are either dry now or soon to dry. The only problem I have with Vallejo is that on some colors the pigment separates with the medium, but nothing a good shake can't fix.

 Yonan wrote:
Minitaire is $3.33 MSRP for 30 ml, but good summary. You can sometimes get 50% off the Minitaire set which makes it $1.70 per 30 ml bottle but you did mention how GW discounts are bad. Vallejo and Minitaire have good discounts, but not sure about the others.

My bad, for some reason I was thinking that line was in the 2 ounce bottles - not one ounce. Next time I guess I should actually double check (which reminds me...might be off on some of the others too...though I am pretty sure those are good prices/volumes). Fixed it for future reference in any case.

I given up on "miniature" grade paint. Each brand has a pro and con to using them. I went and did swatches of all the different craft paints and found that Delta brand Ceramcoat is the best. It's very smooth consistency and does not have the gritty powdery finish you get with others.

You can et it a A.C. Moore, Joanne Fabrics and Hobby Lobby.

I just got back from adepticon and my Star Trek Ork army was painted with them and won the artisan award for Sundays Combat Patrol.

I think they are more than capable for a table top quality finish.

wynnstudio

I've got my original pots of GW from when I had just started painting, but I don't buy them anymore (try not to support GW anymore XD most of my minis are secondhand anymore as well...)
Since then, I've switched over to whatever that has the colors I want.

I've got a bunch of Delta Ceramcoat "Americana" line, which is great (thin properly, needs multiple layers, but it's nice). Has a HUGE selection of colors, letting me be lazy (not having to mix paints for colors).
** I've had no issue running this through an airbrush (when properly thinned- Badger 105 "Patriot")

I've started getting Badger "Opaque" and "Wicked" airbrush specific paints (which are fine for normal and air brushing, pre-thinned, amazing coverage), which go for $2-$5 a bottle (LASTS FOREVER).

All of which I purchased from Hobby Lobby! Freakin' love that place...

EDIT: Hobby Lobby has airbrush thinner that works fine for anytime you've gotta thin your paints. Yes, distilled water will work, but I've been trying to opt for thinning and NOT diluting.