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This happened in a game I was playing. What do you do if you use Markerlights to increase the ballistic skill on your Riptide to 6 when firing the Overcharged Ion Accelerator?

Can you re-roll the Gets Hot roll?

Can you re-roll the scatter dice?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I found the answer, it's Yes to both.

Here's the exact quotes from the text:

Ballistic Skill 6+ (emphasis mine):
BRB Page 13
"If a model has BS 6 or higher, it gains a re-roll whenever it rolls a 1 To Hit with ranged attacks."

On the issue of BS6+ and Get's Hot (emphasis mine):
BRB Page 33
"If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+, or Twin-linked), a Wound is only suffered if the To Hit roll is also a 1; it may also re-roll the Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To Hit"

On the issue of BS6+ and Blast Weapons (emphasis mine):
BRB Page 37
"If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit and chooses to do so after firing a Blast weapon, the player must re-roll both the scatter dice and the 2D6."

lol, revising my opinion as I'm writing... Honestly, I'm on about the third try...
The rules for Blasts (page 33) tell you that you don't roll 'to hit'.
BS of 6 or better (page 13) only gives you a re-roll on the 'to hit' roll.
Gets Hot (page 37) gives you a re-roll if you get re-rolls on the 'to hit' roll, which you're not making...

So I'd say no to both, but it's possible that I'm wrong about the Gets Hot part.

The BS6+ reroll only applies if you actually roll to hit. So for a blast weapon it doesn't get to reroll anything, including the Gets Hot roll. The benefit is you can reduce the scatter by more.

If you have a reroll from another source that isn't contingent on rolling a To Hit roll you may reroll the scatter and the Gets Hot.

Quotes from the text:

"If a model has the ability to re-roll its hits (including because of BS 6+ or Twin-linked)...it may re-roll Gets Hot rolls of 1, even for weapons that do not roll to hit"

"If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls to hit, and chooses to do so after the scatter dice have been rolled, it must re-roll both the scatter dice and the 2D6."

It's Yes to both questions.

To make it slightly more complicated...

How about a Riptide at BS3 that has Command-Link to be able to reroll 1s To Hit, but not all To Hit rolls?

Quark wrote:
To make it slightly more complicated...

How about a Riptide at BS3 that has Command-Link to be able to reroll 1s To Hit, but not all To Hit rolls?

Same question for Preferred Enemy.

It's less clear for these two situations, but I would think they both still work. The text literally says "if the model has the ability to re-roll hits".

This is actually covered in the BRB Gets Hot! rule. Its in 2 columns, keep reading dont stop at the bottom of the page.

BS6+ has nothing to do with rerolls for blasts btw, so no you cant. The rest is in the BRB.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
This is actually covered in the BRB Gets Hot! rule. Its in 2 columns, keep reading dont stop at the bottom of the page.

BS6+ has nothing to do with rerolls for blasts btw, so no you cant. The rest is in the BRB.

You're half right. Unfortunately, you have to read the whole thread. Tough, right?

Get's hot is specifically listed as working for BS6+

Blasts work because BS6+ lets you re-roll misses. The exact wording is "If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls to hit". Does BS6+ allow you to re-roll you rolls to hit? Yes.

BS6+ works when you're rolling to hit and get a 1/fail to hit. Do you roll to hit when using a blast? No you scatter, so it doesn't apply.

Same as prefered enemy and that tau wargear that gives you re-rolls of 1's.

The dice you roll when using a gets hot blast is not a "to hit" it is just a dice to see if the weapon get's hot.

Being a dick to other people on the forum might make you feel like a big man but it doesn't further the debate.

Edited. one of the examples was wrong.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
BS6+ and twin linked work when you're rolling to hit and get a 1/fail to hit. Do you roll to hit when using a blast? No you scatter, so it doesn't apply.

Same as prefered enemy and that tau wargear that gives you re-rolls of 1's.

Read this sentence:

"If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit and chooses to do so after firing a Blast weapon, the player must re-roll both the scatter dice and the 2D6."

That is taken, word for word, from the BRB. Now, read this sentence again. I've underlined the important parts.

"If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit and chooses to do so after firing a Blast weapon, the player must re-roll both the scatter dice and the 2D6."

It does not matter that you do need to roll to hit with a blast weapon. Does the model have the ability to re-roll its rolls to hit, for whatever reason? Then they can re-roll the blast dice.

its not "whatever reason" allowing them to reroll. Read up what causes the reroll for BS6+ and Preferred Enemy, they are different than straight up Twinlinked.

Technically i can see what you are getting the "whatever reason" from since it doesnt directly say BS6+ and Preferred Enemy "twinlinked" on blast attacks let you reroll the gets hot attempt too. However, the requirement that allows these rules to reroll doesnt exist for blast weapons, they dont just happen. Thats why we are saying it doesnt apply to this rule.

Both require a "to hit result of 1" to kick in the rerolling. Was this requirement met for the Gets Hot result? No. In fact, if you roll a 1 for the Gets Hot on a blast weapon it doesnt even fire at all, and it doesnt say this replaces the "to hit" function that other weapons have....it just says roll a D6 before firing...nothing about To Hit is in that sentence allowing a "to hit of 1" to kick in BS6+ and Preferred Enemy.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Both require a "to hit result of 1" to kick in the rerolling. Was this requirement met for the Gets Hot result? No.

Argument ad absurdum: Then, by that same logic, you wouldn't be able to use Twin-Linked for Blast Shots either. Twin-linked weapons only kick in if you miss a roll to hit. Since you don't roll to hit for Blast Weapons, you can never use Twin-Linked to re-roll them.

Fortunately, it specifically says you re-roll the scatter if you can re-roll your hits, even if you don't roll to hit in the first place. For Gets Hot, it's even easier, since it specifically says in the rules that it works for models who re-roll based on a BS6+.

This is explicitly outlined in the rules. If you disagree that what I'm reading is not the right interpretation, that's fine, you're entitled to your own opinion, but there's nothing left to argue about.

How does that mean i cannot reroll blasts period?

Twin-linked Blast Weapons: If the scatter dice does not roll a Hit, you can choose to re-roll the dice with a Twin-linked Blast or Large blast weapon. if you choose to doso, you must re-roll both the 2D6 and the scatter dice.

That is under the Twin-linked special rule on pg43. It directly says if you dont roll a Hit (i.e. bullseye) you may reroll if you have a twin-linked weapon to begin with. Even if you DO hit something, long as you scattered you can reroll it since it says long as you dont roll to hit (bullseye).

"if you can reroll your hits" is correct. Can you reroll Preferred Enemy or BS6+ without rolling a TO HIT of 1? No, you cannot. Thus you do not have the approval to reroll.

MadmanMSU wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Both require a "to hit result of 1" to kick in the rerolling. Was this requirement met for the Gets Hot result? No.

Argument ad absurdum: Then, by that same logic, you wouldn't be able to use Twin-Linked for Blast Shots either. Twin-linked weapons only kick in if you miss a roll to hit. Since you don't roll to hit for Blast Weapons, you can never use Twin-Linked to re-roll them.

Fortunately, it specifically says you re-roll the scatter if you can re-roll your hits, even if you don't roll to hit in the first place. For Gets Hot, it's even easier, since it specifically says in the rules that it works for models who re-roll based on a BS6+.

This is explicitly outlined in the rules. If you disagree that what I'm reading is not the right interpretation, that's fine, you're entitled to your own opinion, but there's nothing left to argue about.

I would go ahead and give you the reroll on the BS6 Blast weapon, but your second roll would only reduce scatter by 1"(Since the high BS rules remove 5 from your BS when you reroll; therefore keeping the result and reducing scatter by 6 is probably the better choice).

I would agree with the BS6 rerolling the "Gets hot" check, but with exactly the same effect(you are after all using the high BS to avoid a weapon overheating in your hands); so reducing the Scatter by the "new BS".

Where does BS5+ give you a re-roll when using a blast?
Read page 13 it says the bonus chance to hit is only if you roll a 1 on your "to hit roll" and Blasts ,page 33, says that they don't roll to hit. They use scatter dice. The ability to re-roll a get's hot dice with a blast is contingent on re-rolling the blast. Unless you are twin-linked or have a rule that allows you to re-roll your shots then you cannot re-roll the get's hot dice nor scatter dice.
So Bjorn the fell handed can shoot a plasma cannon, get a very low scatter but if he rolls a 1, he needs to deal with it.


@Kel, that's not a bad house rule but I don't see anything allowing a re-roll in this case from a RAW perspective.


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MadmanMSU wrote:


Argument ad absurdum: Then, by that same logic, you wouldn't be able to use Twin-Linked for Blast Shots either. Twin-linked weapons only kick in if you miss a roll to hit. Since you don't roll to hit for Blast Weapons, you can never use Twin-Linked to re-roll them.

Fortunately, it specifically says you re-roll the scatter if you can re-roll your hits, even if you don't roll to hit in the first place. For Gets Hot, it's even easier, since it specifically says in the rules that it works for models who re-roll based on a BS6+.

Twin linked says how it deals with blasts. If you own the rulebook you will see that.

Get's hot deals with to hit rolls when it talks about BS6+, do you roll to hit with a blast? No.
You don't use a "to hit" roll when working out get's hot with blasts.

don't have my book in front of me but I have a relevant question.

If I have BS 6+ I can re-roll my to hit but it stipulates that the second roll is more difficult. Does the wording in the book lower my BS on the re-roll and thus not reduce the re-rolled scatter as much? Does it set predictable but arbitrary new conditions for the re-roll to succeed and thus allow the re-rolled scatter the same level of reduction as the original roll?


As for the OP's question. I believe you are allowed to re-roll the gets hot if you re-roll the scatter. We've always played it that rolling to scatter was in fact a form of rolling to hit. To speed things up we usually rolled an off colored d6 with our scatter dice to see if the weapon gets hot. But a BS 6+ blast weapon has never come up in my group before and I'm not convinced the higher BS actually would allow a re-roll but I'd have to crack open a book before I made a real call.

Here's the text I have in my book:

BRB, p. 37, Gets Hot and Re-rolls: "If the model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS 6+, or twin-linked), a wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1; it may also re-roll Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll to hit."

The preceeding section discusses weapons that do not roll to hit, the procedure is to roll a D6 before firing and on a result of 1 the weapon gets hot. The following section (which I just quoted) seems very clear that you may re-roll that specific D6 if you have re-roll capability ("it may also re-roll Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll to hit") Weapons that do not roll to hit roll a D6 to determine if they get hot, that D6 can be re-rolled.

The re-roll for scatter is specific to twin-linked weapons, and is detailed on BRB p. 43 ("Twin-Linked")

Sorry grey knight but I'm not 100% what side you are arguing for here.
So do you think that BS6 gives a re-roll to blasts? If so why?

Nobody is saying that you cannot re-roll the get's hot when you have a re-roll. What we are saying is that BS greater than 5 does not grant a re-roll to blasts as there is no permission to do so.

I think that the get's hot can be re-rolled, but the blast isn't because the effects of your bs6 is already in effect by reducing the scatter.

Why one and not the other?

That is because the bs 6 is already aiding the blast by reducing the scatter by an inch. Unlike the to hit roll that can be re-rolled with a little less successful chance ( 6+) to hit.

What I mean is, if you have a BS6 and you are firing a blast weapon, why do you get to re-roll a get's hot?

BS6 cannot give you a re-roll of a get's hot dice for blasts as it is not a roll "To Hit" and you cannot get 1 on 2d6 and a scatter dice. So I don't see any way that this interacts with the blast rules.

The paragraph in blasts about re-rolls is talking about the general get's hot rule, you may only re-roll the get's hot dice if you have permission to re-roll and the only way to re-roll a scatter is by twin linked or other such rules that allow the scatter dice and 2d6 to be re-rolled.
If the re-roll paragraph is being read to say that BS6 gives a re-roll to get's hot in any situation and we are playing silly buggers with the rules... then it doesn't matter as someone is just trying to game an advantage.

If you reroll the scatter dice, because of the BS 6+ rule, what distance do you reduce the scatter by?
You've already used up all of your BS "points" for lack of a better word.

I couldn't say from a RAW or RAI stand point. That is crazy new territory for me.

Now, if I came up on it in a game, I'd let him reroll, but it would scatter the full 2d6.d

edit:If you want me to fluff out that reasoning, here you go. The guy is so good with weapons that he was able to avoid getting hurt by the weapon, his accuracy declines because he is now holding it as far away from his body as possible.

withdrawing my silly ramblings, raw is pretty clear.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
What I mean is, if you have a BS6 and you are firing a blast weapon, why do you get to re-roll a get's hot?

Because the rules explicitly state that you may re-roll "gets hot" results with blast weapons if you have BS 6+:

"If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+, or Twin-linked), a Wound is only suffered if the To Hit roll is also a 1; it may also re-roll the Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To Hit"

 Idolator wrote:
If you reroll the scatter dice, because of the BS 6+ rule, what distance do you reduce the scatter by?
You've already used up all of your BS "points" for lack of a better word.

You reduce the scatter by the shooter's BS. There is no such thing as "BS points", you apply the BS-based scatter reduction as normal just like with any other case of re-rolling the scatter dice.

 Peregrine wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
What I mean is, if you have a BS6 and you are firing a blast weapon, why do you get to re-roll a get's hot?

Because the rules explicitly state that you may re-roll "gets hot" results with blast weapons if you have BS 6+:

"If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+, or Twin-linked), a Wound is only suffered if the To Hit roll is also a 1; it may also re-roll the Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To Hit"

 Idolator wrote:
If you reroll the scatter dice, because of the BS 6+ rule, what distance do you reduce the scatter by?
You've already used up all of your BS "points" for lack of a better word.

You reduce the scatter by the shooter's BS. There is no such thing as "BS points", you apply the BS-based scatter reduction as normal just like with any other case of re-rolling the scatter dice.

What would that scatter reduction be?
As the BS 6+ rule requires your shooting reroll BS to be the numeral (is that a better word than points?) that reamains after subtracting the highest normal BS numeral allowed for normal shooting.
If you have a BS 7 and fire a pistol and miss, your reroll BS is 1, as you can only subtract 6 (the highest number that you can roll on the die.) Blasts offer a different set of circumstances that are not adressed specificaly.

Since a BS can be modified to 0, according to the Errata, and the reroll BS for a BS6+ reroll must be a modified number, what is that number to be? That is the crux of this debate.

One could argue many stands as it is unclear and all of them would be house rules as far as I can see. Those stands could be:
1)Allow the full BS for the reroll
2)subtract whatever number was rolled on the scatter from the firers BS (2-12)
3) Allow a reroll but require full scatter
4) no reroll allowed, as BS has been reduced to 0 by the use of scatter dice.

Now, I don't agree with 4 because it says that you can reroll. I don't agree with 1 because it doesn't follow the restrictions placed on the BS of the reroll. I would be fine with number 2 but I prefer the 3rd interpretation.

To break it down, 1 and 4 both break rules, 2 and 3 don't .

I just don't see a clear cut RAW adressing of this unique situation.

Gets hot says if you have a re-roll and gives some means of getting a re-roll, it does not say that they are always applicable.

Ok, so just to be clear no one is still debating the "gets hot" re-roll anymore? Ok? Ok.

On to scatter dice then:
BRB p. 33, Blast & Large Blast - Blast Weapons and Re-rolls: "If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit and chooses to do so after firing a Blast weapon, the player must re-roll both the scatter dice and the 2D6."

There are 3 cases that I can see in the BRB for getting a re-roll to hit: Twin-linked, Psychic Powers (like Prescience), or BS6+, or. One at a time:
1) Twin-linked. In the rules for twin-linked (BRB p.43, Twin-linked - Twin-linked Blast Weapons) it is explicitly stated that twin-linked blast weapons can re-roll both the 2D6 and scatter dice if you do not roll a hit on the scatter. This is fairly straightforward.
2) Prescience. BRB p. 420, Prescience: "Whilst the power is in effect, the target unit can re-roll all failed To Hit rolls". Prescience therefore "has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit", and therefore by the standard set forth on the blast rules can re-roll its scatter.

Now the debate can focus on BS 6+

3) BS6+. BRB p. 13, Ballistic Skill of 6 or Better: "If a model has BS 6 or higher, it gains a re-roll whenever it rolls a 1 To Hit with ranged attacks. The second roll usually has a lower chance of hitting, and is given in the chart below in italics after the slash". The second roll does not reduce a model's ballistic skill, it is still 6+; which is why it gets the re-roll in the first place. The chart itself, and the italicized section underneath the chart further insinuates this. The quoted text from the blast weapon rules states that you need a re-roll. However, BS 6+ rules state that you gain a re-roll only if you roll a 1.

While I could see this going either way, I lean towards BS6+ not granting a re-roll to the scatter dice due to the wording of the blast rule: "has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit and chooses to do so". The wording seems to indicate that it applies if you have a blanket To Hit re-roll (like twin-linked) and that you can choose to use it. Under normal circumstances, you aren't choosing to re-roll a shot from a BS6+ weapon, and you only have a conditional re-roll (to hit roll of 1).

I really hope they faq this sometime.

 Idolator wrote:
What would that scatter reduction be?

Whatever the BS of the model is. If it's BS 6, you reduce scatter by 6".

Blasts offer a different set of circumstances that are not adressed specificaly.

They don't need to be. There is nothing at all that suggests that you subtract anything but your full BS from scatter distance on a re-roll. The whole "BS reduction" thing is purely your own invention, so it's not really a surprise that you can't find anything addressing it.

2)subtract whatever number was rolled on the scatter from the firers BS (2-12)
3) Allow a reroll but require full scatter
4) no reroll allowed, as BS has been reduced to 0 by the use of scatter dice.

There is nothing in the rules that even suggests any of these.