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Hmm, so prescience DOES work on scatter dice? I had always thought it did, but a lot of my opponents threw up a stink about it. I'll have to quote that rules page.

I'd say you can reroll the "Gets Hot!" dice, but not the scatter. You're BS6, you're that good around a weapon. (Or you're Bjorn!)

 TheKbob wrote:
I'd say you can reroll the "Gets Hot!" dice, but not the scatter. You're BS6, you're that good around a weapon. (Or you're Bjorn!)

With that "gets hot!" roll, is it a 1 to hit?

No it is a special test to see if the gun overheats.

It sucks that direct fire Gets hot weapons can be avoided by the High BS while Templates and Blasts cannot; but those are the rules.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I'd say you can reroll the "Gets Hot!" dice, but not the scatter. You're BS6, you're that good around a weapon. (Or you're Bjorn!)

With that "gets hot!" roll, is it a 1 to hit?

No it is a special test to see if the gun overheats.

It sucks that direct fire Gets hot weapons can be avoided by the High BS while Templates and Blasts cannot; but those are the rules.

Seems like the rules the other folks are quoting state otherwise. BS6+ can reroll gets hot, but not the scatter dice.

BRB Page 33
"If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+, or Twin-linked), a Wound is only suffered if the To Hit roll is also a 1; it may also re-roll the Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To Hit"

That seems pretty clear, the second half also being important since blasts don't "roll to hit" as traditional.

 TheKbob wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I'd say you can reroll the "Gets Hot!" dice, but not the scatter. You're BS6, you're that good around a weapon. (Or you're Bjorn!)

With that "gets hot!" roll, is it a 1 to hit?

No it is a special test to see if the gun overheats.

It sucks that direct fire Gets hot weapons can be avoided by the High BS while Templates and Blasts cannot; but those are the rules.

Seems like the rules the other folks are quoting state otherwise. BS6+ can reroll gets hot, but not the scatter dice.

BRB Page 33
"If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+, or Twin-linked), a Wound is only suffered if the To Hit roll is also a 1; it may also re-roll the Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To Hit"

That seems pretty clear, the second half also being important since blasts don't "roll to hit" as traditional.

Yep, ignore my post; I was busy with something else and did not double check that rule.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:


Yep, ignore my post; I was busy with something else and did not double check that rule.

Trust me, I could see it either way (poorly written rule), but it just seems to make sense that someone BS6 would be less likely to suffer "Get's Hot!"

Granted, the limited time something would be BS6+ and has "Gets Hot!" is how often? I can think of Bjorn, a Riptide boosted with markerlights,... ?

(And it just clicked... Heavy Burst Cannon, NOVA CHARGE!!!!!!1111, and then make him BS6... less worry of "Gets Hot!" while shredding a target... hrmm...)

 TheKbob wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:


Yep, ignore my post; I was busy with something else and did not double check that rule.

Trust me, I could see it either way (poorly written rule), but it just seems to make sense that someone BS6 would be less likely to suffer "Get's Hot!"

Granted, the limited time something would be BS6+ and has "Gets Hot!" is how often? I can think of Bjorn, a Riptide boosted with markerlights,... ?

(And it just clicked... Heavy Burst Cannon, NOVA CHARGE!!!!!!1111, and then make him BS6... less worry of "Gets Hot!" while shredding a target... hrmm...)

Same for any unit with an ion weapon; boost bs to 6 and employ the lower scatter along with the reroll to gets hot checks when overcharged.

Am I the only one that reads a list of possible reasons why you may re-roll to hit and not see them as applying in all possible cases?

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Am I the only one that reads a list of possible reasons why you may re-roll to hit and not see them as applying in all possible cases?

Yes you are, because the rules quoted for gets hot specifically mention BS6+ and twin linked as reasons you would re-roll Gets Hot, as well as any other method of re-rolling. It explicitly states that. Otherwise they wouldn't list them (giving BS6+ as an example and then not allowing it is stupid, even for a GW rulebook)

As for the scatter dice, it's open for debate but I've already stated my opinion and supporting reasons.

I am not saying that they don't work IN GENERAL, does bs greater than 5 grant a reroll for blasts, if not how is there permission to reroll gets hot, if yes page and parragraph please?

 liturgies of blood wrote:
I am not saying that they don't work IN GENERAL, does bs greater than 5 grant a reroll for blasts, if not how is there permission to reroll gets hot, if yes page and parragraph please?

The GETS HOT and the BLAST rolls are independent events. Thusly, your arguments are erroneous. For specific rules quotes and page numbers, SEE THE FIRST POST IN THIS TOPIC.

I am continually amazed at how often this needs to be pointed out to you.

How about you dial back the outrage there darling?

If you dont get a rerol to blasts with bs6 how do you get to reroll the gets hot dice when you have no permission to reroll that shot?

You have made the quotes but failed to make logical link.
If a than b and if c than d does not equate if a than d.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
How about you dial back the outrage there darling?

If you dont get a rerol to blasts with bs6 how do you get to reroll the gets hot dice when you have no permission to reroll that shot?

Because the Gets Hot roll explicitly calls out a BS of 6 as being able to re-roll.
There is no related permission to re-roll scatter dice. Without the explicit permission in Get's Hot you couldn't re-roll it.

A model with BS 6+ may re-roll its rolls to hit

it can thus be said to "have the ability to re-roll its rolls to hit"

the rules say abundantly clearly in plain english:

"If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit ... it may ... re-roll gets hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To Hit."

Whether the model can re-roll a blast or not based on the technicality that a blast doesn't roll to hit is insignificant to the rules. The only measure to be granted the ability to re-roll the gets hot dice that accompanies firing the blast weapon in question, is that the model is able to re-roll To Hit rolls.

 Idolator wrote:
If you reroll the scatter dice, because of the BS 6+ rule, what distance do you reduce the scatter by?

I would say that you do not get to re-roll blast scatters due to high BS, on account of the fact that a blast scatter never rolls a 1, which is a pre-condition of using high BS to get a re-roll. RaI, the fact that your full BS is used to reduce the scatter in the first place, doesn't give me any reason to feel I should infer such an ability just because Gets Hot does specifically allow it.

 Drunkspleen wrote:
Whether the model can re-roll a blast or not based on the technicality that a blast doesn't roll to hit is insignificant to the rules. The only measure to be granted the ability to re-roll the gets hot dice that accompanies firing the blast weapon in question, is that the model is able to re-roll To Hit rolls.

Eh, any model can re-roll a to-hit roll under the right circumstances. That doesn't imply that they necessarily get to re-roll that particular shot, when such circumstances are not applicable.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
I am not saying that they don't work IN GENERAL, does bs greater than 5 grant a reroll for blasts, if not how is there permission to reroll gets hot, if yes page and parragraph please?

BS6+ only grant a reroll to hits on a failed to hit roll of 1.

The Gets hot rule specifically allows the Blast/template test to be rerolled with a BS of 6+.

Since a BS of 6+ does not roll "To hit" with Blast/Template weapons they can never re-roll the scatter(as they can never roll a 1 on the To hit roll).

So a BS6+ with a gets hot Blast weapon can reroll a 1 on the "Gets Hot!" test prior to firing(as allowed within the Gets Hot! rules), but cannot reroll the Scatter dice, they just reduce the scatter by their BS value.

-Accidental post- :(

 liturgies of blood wrote:
How about you dial back the outrage there darling?

If you dont get a rerol to blasts with bs6 how do you get to reroll the gets hot dice when you have no permission to reroll that shot?

You have made the quotes but failed to make logical link.
If a than b and if c than d does not equate if a than d.

Only amusement, darling. I underline and bold items so that you can see them. For some reason, you keep asking for things that have already been stated in the thread (in the first post, no less). I'm not trying to change your mind, because it's obvious you're going to ignore whatever anyone else says anyway, but instead ask that you stop repeating yourself over and over.

Yes they say on a condition of having a re-roll "to hit" you can re-roll the get's hot result.

1. If you cannot re-roll the "to hit" you cannot re-roll the get's hot, since you need to have the ability to get a re-roll first. Yes or no?
2. BS6+ only effects a roll of 1 "to hit" and is a conditional re-roll unlike twin-linked. Yes or no?
3. Blasts have a different mechanic than "to hit". Yes or no?
4. Blasts have a specific section that details how you get a re-roll. Yes or no?
5. Gets hot requires the ability to re-roll the "to hit" to get the re-roll. Yes or no?
6. Does BS6+ fulfil the bolded text, "If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit and chooses to do so after firing a Blast weapon,...". Yes or no?


If a model doesn't have a re-roll afforded to it when firing a blast weapon why does it get the ability to re-roll the get's hot, when get's hot only lists rules that COULD give a re-roll, not rules that ALWAYS give a re-roll. In essence if you don't have a re-roll for your weapon why are you getting a re-roll? There has yet to be a logical link between the two rules.
Also madman, I am reading the responses, I am open to having my mind changed but I do set a bar of providing an argument with a logical link in it. Quotes are not a logical argument when we have an assumption that you can apply re-rolls to weapons fire that you wouldn't normally apply them to at all with out any permission. A non exhaustive list of possible rules that fall into the category of "things that grant re-rolls sometimes" isn't permission to get a re-roll in all cases.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also many times in the book brackets are used to give reminders and side comments, in this case a list of possible rules that may fulfil the criteria. (just so you know)

Gets Hot!, BRB page 37, second column under "Gets Hot"" in the first column, the entirety of the Subsection: "Gets Hot and Re-rolls" tells use that a BS6+ may also re-roll a "Gets Hot" result of 1 for weapons that do not roll to hit."

Since Blast/Template weapons do not roll to hit then a model with a BS6+ can therefore re-roll a "Gets Hot!" test of 1.

This is incredibly clear upon reading the "gets Hot " rules.

No, it just lists rules that MIGHT give you a re-roll, BS6+ is a very conditional re-roll. I tried, people don't see to agree.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
No, it just lists rules that MIGHT give you a re-roll, BS6+ is a very conditional re-roll. I tried, people don't see to agree.

No, "Gets Hot and Re-rolls" has 1 sentence, and that sentence first includes that a model with BS 6+ only takes a wound if a To hit reroll is also a 1, and then thaT model with a BS 6+(as an example of models that receive rerolls to hit) also gets to reroll a 1 on the "Gets hot !" test dice. tHIS IS VERY, VERY clear and spelled out in no uncertain terms on page 37 of the BRB.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Yes they say on a condition of having a re-roll "to hit" you can re-roll the get's hot result.

1. If you cannot re-roll the "to hit" you cannot re-roll the get's hot, since you need to have the ability to get a re-roll first. Yes or no?
2. BS6+ only effects a roll of 1 "to hit" and is a conditional re-roll unlike twin-linked. Yes or no?

That's where you're confused. A model does not lose the ability to re-roll 1s because it does not roll to hit, or even if it does not roll a 1. You still possess the ability if you're BS6+, it doesn't disappear.

In other words, you're reading the sentence like this: (it gains a re-roll whenever it rolls a 1) To Hit with ranged attacks.

When you should be reading this: (it gains a re-roll) whenever it rolls a 1 To Hit with ranged attacks.

The second part of the sentence is outlining when you can use the re-roll, not when the re-roll is acquired.

The same applies to reading the rules for Twin-linked. If you read Twin-linked the way you are reading Gets Hot, you would only gain the ability to re-roll hits on a miss, when the ability to re-roll is an inherent trait, not conditionally acquired.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
No, it just lists rules that MIGHT give you a re-roll, BS6+ is a very conditional re-roll. I tried, people don't see to agree.

Actualy it is NOT a conditional reroll. It states if you have BS6+ you can reroll Gets Hot!, and does not require you to be rerolling a "to hit" roll in order to get that reroll - that is something you are inferring from unwritten text.

It is in the sense of a re-roll to hit is not a normal re-roll but drops your skill for the re-roll. That was what I meant there.

Which is 100% irrelevant, as you still gain a reroll for BS6+, and the rules for Gets Hot! granting a reroll of the dice on a blast weapon gets hot (for example) is not contingent on you being able to reroll to-hit, ever

You are making up a requirement that is entirely absent

 liturgies of blood wrote:
It is in the sense of a re-roll to hit is not a normal re-roll but drops your skill for the re-roll. That was what I meant there.

The 6+ BS reroll is specifically allowed within the sentence allowing any reroll to hit to reroll the Gets hot chance on Blast/Template weapons.

There is no BS6+ allowance to reroll the scatter dice, however, so you go with the Base Blast rulews instructing you to discount the firer's BS from the scatter range(Value=6+).

So a BS8 Model firing a Blast Weapon rolls the scatter Dice and subtracts 8(but cannot reroll because there is no "to Hit roll" of 1)

the Same BS8 model firing a "Gets Hot!" blast weapon first rolls a D6 and on a 1 is specifically allowed a reroll by the Gets Hot! rules; Said "model"(controlling player) then rolls the scatter dice and receives a -8 to the distance rolled, but cannot reroll the scatter Dice(as it has not rolled a 1 on the "to hit" roll).

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Yes they say on a condition of having a re-roll "to hit" you can re-roll the get's hot result.

This is where you are wrong and it invalidates the whole rest of your post.

It's not on the condition of having a re-roll "to hi" but merely, being capable of making one.

a BS6+ model is capable of re-rolling it's to hit dice no matter whether it is actively rolling to-hit at the time or not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
2. BS6+ only effects a roll of 1 "to hit" and is a conditional re-roll unlike twin-linked. Yes or no?

Also while we are here, Twin-Linked is conditional on missing, that's just as conditional as only re-rolling 1s.

Twin-Linked just is more variable in the subset of numbers it allows re-rolls for, but it never lets you re-roll a 6 for example.

And with regards to blast weapons, they can only be re-rolled by twin-linked if you don't roll a hit on the scatter dice, so obviously the game is broken, because if I re-roll a get's hot result of 1 so that I can fire my blast weapon, then roll a hit on the scatter dice, I no longer have any re-roll permission (according to you) and thus, illegally re-rolled my gets hot dice.

Now you are just making wild assertions.

My logic is do you roll to hit, no you use scatter.
Do you have a re-roll, yes if twinlinked etc no if BS6+.
If it's gets hot do you have a re-roll, see above.

I'm not saying anything about using the re-roll nor anything about needing it to activate first, I'm just of the mind it looks like a need for an applicable re-roll.
edit not continuing the argument, just clearing up any misconceptions.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Now you are just making wild assertions.

My logic is do you roll to hit, no you use scatter.
Do you have a re-roll, yes if twinlinked etc no if BS6+.
If it's gets hot do you have a re-roll, see above.

I'm not saying anything about using the re-roll nor anything about needing it to activate first, I'm just of the mind it looks like a need for an applicable re-roll.
edit not continuing the argument, just clearing up any misconceptions.

Just so I understand your claim, if you are BS6+ you do not get to re-roll Gets Hot for a bast weapon?

 liturgies of blood wrote:
Now you are just making wild assertions.

My logic is do you roll to hit, no you use scatter.
Do you have a re-roll, yes if twinlinked etc no if BS6+.
If it's gets hot do you have a re-roll, see above.

I'm not saying anything about using the re-roll nor anything about needing it to activate first, I'm just of the mind it looks like a need for an applicable re-roll.
edit not continuing the argument, just clearing up any misconceptions.

Right, so it's not that you think you need to be able to re-roll the specific to-hit roll in question, just that you need to be able to re-roll the specific type of to hit roll in question even though that delineation is not made by the "Gets Hot and Re-Rolls" rules?

Well I would argue that's even more ridiculous, but okay.