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Simple, does Kantor make BA stern scoring? Tried nose around the forum, but found only this thread http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/474302.page#4736397 and it talks about salamanders, who are in the same codex with Kantor, but in different chapter still.

There isn't a clarification in the Space Marines FAQ.

What, specifically, does Kantor's rule say regarding Sternguard?

Nope, only sternguard from the SM dex are counted as being scoring

MarkyMark wrote:
Nope, only sternguard from the SM dex are counted as being scoring

based on what?

FAQ

Edit: hmm Never mind. Seem I was looking at the wrong item.

I would have to say, yes, Your BA Stern are scoring.

If the BA Sternguard unit is "Sternguard Veterans squad" then yes, Kantor does indeed make them scoring.

See Kantor "Hold the Line!" rule and names of the Sternguard units.

.

 masquerade81 wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
Nope, only sternguard from the SM dex are counted as being scoring

based on what?

Based on the wording of the Hold the Line rule.

"Hold the Line: If your army includes Pedro Kantor, your Sternguard Veteran squads are scoring units" P. 90 C: SM

In context your army is the army from the space marine codex, as only that army can include Pedro Therefore "your Sternguard Veteran squads" in context means the Sternguard Veteran squads from Codex Space Marine.

Correct me if I'm wrong but .. I see no "Sternguard Veterans" in the BA codex. If there are no Sternguard Veterans, obviously they cannot be affected by Pedro Kantors ability.

Of course, to take Kantor with BA you need to be taking an allied detachment from Codex : Space Marines, and you could take a single Sternguard unit then, which would in that case be scoring.

Page 27 and 87. There are Sternguard Veterans in the BA codex.

rigeld2 wrote:
Page 27 and 87. There are Sternguard Veterans in the BA codex.

Thank you, I don't know how I missed that first time around. :/

However, Pedro's rule has also been updated to state Friendly Units from Codex : Space Marines, therefore no, your BA sternguard cannot be scoring because of Pedro.
** Edit : Again I misread .. ugh. That's the Inspiring Presence, not the line about making sternguard Scoring.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 masquerade81 wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
Nope, only sternguard from the SM dex are counted as being scoring

based on what?

Based on the wording of the Hold the Line rule.

"Hold the Line: If your army includes Pedro Kantor, your Sternguard Veteran squads are scoring units" P. 90 C: SM

In context your army is the army from the space marine codex, as only that army can include Pedro Therefore "your Sternguard Veteran squads" in context means the Sternguard Veteran squads from Codex Space Marine.

"Your army" is all of your models in play in your army, not just those from a specific codex. This is why they have updated many of these special abilities (but not Hold the Line) to say "Friendly models from Codex : X, in your army" instead of just "Any units in your army".

Your army has two meanings now that 6th ed uses your army to mean your primary and allied detachment..

However in the context of the SM Codex, your army means your Codex Space Marine units that are in your army.

Ignore DeathReaper, he will argue about the context of the codices until the end of time, and is willing to make such huge leaps of logic because he believes it's the only true interpretation.

If you ignore the "context", you can make BA stern scoring.

Discuss with your opponent first to avoid arguments during game.

Polecat wrote:
Ignore DeathReaper, he will argue about the context of the codices until the end of time, and is willing to make such huge leaps of logic because he believes it's the only true interpretation.

If you ignore the "context", you can make BA stern scoring.

Discuss with your opponent first to avoid arguments during game.

I second that. DeathReaper will jump in here in a minute and argue, I'm sure, but I ignore him as well.

As it stands now, per RAW, Pedro Kantor can make BA Sternguard scoring.

That will probably change when the new SM codex comes out, based on what they've been doing with FAQ updates. But, as I said, right now it is still kosher, according to RAW.

Agree with those stating that the BAs would score. Other rules to this point have been FAQ'd to read something to the tune of "Sternguard in Codex: Vanillarines can score", whereas this was NOT FAQ'd and legal by RAW, although maybe not RAI, but that's not the purpose of YMDC to debate, is it?

Disagree that the BAs would score. The FAQs have been pretty clear that there are very few (if any) situations in which a special rule or ability from one detachment in your army can impact the other detachment.

Techmarines fixing allied vehicles? No.
Modifiers for reserve rolls? No.
Embark in each others transports? No.
Pedro, Inspiring presence: No.
Shrike, But Remain Unseen: No.
Vulkan, Chapter Tactics: No.
Chaplain, Honour of the Chapter: No.
Chaplain, Liturgies of Battle: No.
Calgar, God of War: No.
Sicarius, Rites of Battle: No.
(plus a bunch of similar restrictions in the BA FAQ itself)

Another interesting FAQ:

Some units have rules that means their selection permits other units from that detachment to be selected as if they belonged to different parts of their Codex army list...

Note the careful wording of the question about how it applies to their own detachment only; which may be the strongest indicator to disallow BA's sternguard to score.

I have yet to see a FAQ that explicitly allows a special rule from one detachment to positively impact an allied detachment. Notably, there are rules allowing special rules to negatively impact allies, such as the Necron lightning storm.

Point is, it really looks like they want the two detachments to be treated separately and that this particular item is just an oversight to be corrected later.

tldr;RAW: you might be okay to do this depending on how you read the above language from the FAQ. RAI: Sure seems like an oversight compared to all of the other No decisions.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Your army has two meanings now that 6th ed uses your army to mean your primary and allied detachment..

However in the context of the SM Codex, your army means your Codex Space Marine units that are in your army.

The BRB makes it very clear. Your army is the models in both your primary and allied detachments. It is not limited in any way to a single codex. If a rule refers to 'your army' it refers to all detachments.

.

clively wrote:
Some units have rules that means their selection permits other units from that detachment to be selected as if they belonged to different parts of their Codex army list...

This particular quote isn't relevant - Sternguard aren't converted to a different FOC choice. They're merely made scoring units, which is a special rule.

I agree with the intent of your post, but see it that RAW at present gives no reason for BA Sternguard not to score. The closest comparison would be the Grey Knights FAQ, with Grand Masters that can make existing units scoring with no other changes:
“Roll a D3 and choose that many friendly Infantry, Jump Infantry, Monstrous Creature or Walker units in your army chosen from Codex: Grey Knights

Emphasis mine, of course.

The fact that they've not FAQed it usually makes a strong case for it being a deliberate choice where everything else has been updated. However, I can't imagine that this was the intent in this case.

 DJGietzen wrote:


The BRB makes it very clear. Your army is the models in both your primary and allied detachments. It is not limited in any way to a single codex. If a rule refers to 'your army' it refers to all detachments.

No that isn't true.

Your "army" in the SW codex faq is either a primary or allied detachment as a leaders of the pack specifies a space wolf army, yet it applies to allies. The rule book is more than inconsistent with it's use of army for one detachment or both.

Polecat wrote:
Ignore DeathReaper, he will argue about the context of the codices until the end of time, and is willing to make such huge leaps of logic because he believes it's the only true interpretation.

Or, you know, you could point out some actual rules that support your position, like I have,

If you ignore the "context", you can make BA stern scoring.

Exactly this, if you ignore context you may as well not play 40K as context means a lot.

MadmanMSU wrote:
As it stands now, per RAW, Pedro Kantor can make BA Sternguard scoring.

That will probably change when the new SM codex comes out, based on what they've been doing with FAQ updates. But, as I said, right now it is still kosher, according to RAW.

Yea that is not true at all.

There are no actual rules that support this claim.

 DJGietzen wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Your army has two meanings now that 6th ed uses your army to mean your primary and allied detachment..

However in the context of the SM Codex, your army means your Codex Space Marine units that are in your army.

The BRB makes it very clear. Your army is the models in both your primary and allied detachments. It is not limited in any way to a single codex. If a rule refers to 'your army' it refers to all detachments.

And the SM codex makes it clear that Army means an army chosen from the Codex Space Marines.

and since there is a conflict Codex > BRB...