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So, a few friends of mine played a game of 40k today. fairly small points, about 700 per team (we had 4 guys on two teams of two, orks and SPEHSS MEHREENS vs. 'crons and IG) my ork buddy has been a pretty formidable opponent until now, 'cuz as we all know IG and Crons are some of the worst CQC armies. However my IG buddy decided to implement several artillery/ordnance tanks as well as two full squads of grenade launchers. Needless to say he decimated the entire WAAAGH before it even got close to us. Normally this wouldn't a big deal, but my ork buddy is about as temperamental as an ork and really hates it when things don't go his way. I'm not saying he shouldn't stop being a whiney little baby about it, it's one game of 40k. But i would like to help him out a little by giving him some decent anti-tank advice, since that's what the orks really lack. I've heard a lot from lots of different sources, mostly the implementation of tankbustas in fast-moving transports. Any advice?

Define anti-tank. Anti-vehicle tactics for medium to light vehicles (Chimeras, Rhinos, etc) varies wildly from anti-heavy vehicle tactics (Hammerheads, predators, Leman Russes) and generally utilize two almost completely different sets of weapons. S8 weapons are at a threshold between anti-tank and anti-materiel weapons, they're not going to do awesomely against tanks if used at the front of the armor, but luckily most tanks have hella thin side and rear armor that Rokkitz can usually blow throw without much trouble.

That being said, Lootas are generally a better bet against medium to light vehicles due to their sheer weight of fire ensuring that they'll get some S7 hits to penetrate through any armor below 13. Tankbustas sadly still have to deal with BS2 and a lack of a large quantity of shots. Against heavy vehicles, the standard Ork tactic remains "Power klaw biker nobz and/or Deffrolla battlewagons." Getting sideshots with lootas would require careful deployment and is usually more of a happy accident so they should rely on up close and personal tank crumping most of the time. The Zzzap gun is sadly nowhere near reliable enough for anti-tank duty.

If he bought the black reach box set before DV he'll have 3 deffkoptas.

You can deploy these 12" in front of your DZ. With their high movement it MIGHT be possible to get them located behind IG or other army tanks. Whilst they probably wont live very long this will probably let you have a few twin linked S8 rokkit attacks (2 per kopta) this should do some mischief to those heavy tanks on their rear armour usually 3 deffkoptas will score at least 2-3 glancing hits, but as it's the rear armour you'll be penetrating on 4's.

The downside of this is your opponent will see what you are up to and give the koptas target priority if orks go second.

 Jingles wrote:
If he bought the black reach box set before DV he'll have 3 deffkoptas.

You can deploy these 12" in front of your DZ. With their high movement it MIGHT be possible to get them located behind IG or other army tanks. Whilst they probably wont live very long this will probably let you have a few twin linked S8 rokkit attacks (2 per kopta) this should do some mischief to those heavy tanks on their rear armour usually 3 deffkoptas will score at least 2-3 glancing hits, but as it's the rear armour you'll be penetrating on 4's.

The downside of this is your opponent will see what you are up to and give the koptas target priority if orks go second.

Deffkoptas can be useful but as you said they're a tad fragile and if the other guy sees that they have Rokkitz they will prioritize them heavily because there's pretty much no way to hide what you intend to do with Rokkitkoptaz. They're very glass cannony and I'd be wary of putting them on a battlefield where the IG's three Vs (Vendetta, Vulture, Valkyrie) are expected to have a heavy presence. But properly worked they can do miracles, just be careful of their crappy leadership.

What do you mean by "Two full squads of grenade launchers"?

You mean command squads (1 commander, 4 GLs) or veterans (7 guys, 3 GLs)?

Actually, I suppose that's pretty good against hordes to be fair...

First thing to do is play by the normal rules. If you're playing with 700 points per team that's 350 points for each player, and the bare-minimum FOC for IG is 190 points (CCS + 2x veterans with no upgrades) leaving only 160 points, which is not enough to buy "several" artillery tanks. And I suspect that the "entire squads of grenade launchers" are taking more than the legal number of upgrade weapons.

Aren't Deffkoptas scouts or infiltrate? If that's the case, no reason not to have them come in outflanking..and if they have such high target priority, that means the boyz got another turn to close the gap.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Aren't Deffkoptas scouts or infiltrate? If that's the case, no reason not to have them come in outflanking..and if they have such high target priority, that means the boyz got another turn to close the gap.

Thank goodness that Hydras can't intercept for some unfathomable reason.

If Hydra there is.

I have the same problem. Goddamn Manticore with its triple S10 pie plate wherever the feth it wants every turn. Even if you pull some snazzy gak like a scouting deffkopta in the rear of the damn thing, unless you go first, your still going to get pie plates on the rear armour of your hidden battlewagons no matter what.

 Dakkamite wrote:
I have the same problem. Goddamn Manticore with its triple S10 pie plate wherever the feth it wants every turn. Even if you pull some snazzy gak like a scouting deffkopta in the rear of the damn thing, unless you go first, your still going to get pie plates on the rear armour of your hidden battlewagons no matter what.

If they're always getting three shots off, they're cheating. They have to roll a 1d3 to determine how many missiles are fired.

 Peregrine wrote:
First thing to do is play by the normal rules. If you're playing with 700 points per team that's 350 points for each player, and the bare-minimum FOC for IG is 190 points (CCS + 2x veterans with no upgrades) leaving only 160 points, which is not enough to buy "several" artillery tanks. And I suspect that the "entire squads of grenade launchers" are taking more than the legal number of upgrade weapons.

Peregrine-- I believe what he meant when he said 700 points was 700 per person (so 1400 per side), which would leave room for a couple artillery pieces.

Although I could be wrong.

 Dakkamite wrote:
I have the same problem. Goddamn Manticore with its triple S10 pie plate wherever the feth it wants every turn. Even if you pull some snazzy gak like a scouting deffkopta in the rear of the damn thing, unless you go first, your still going to get pie plates on the rear armour of your hidden battlewagons no matter what.

Wow, these are totally the wrong rules. It is 1d3 shots and side armour. It is also multiple barrage so the accuracy should be somewhat problematic.

The only reliable AT orks have are power klaws. And even they can whiff terribly. Bikerboss is the way to go.

Lootas are amazing for AV12.

 Peregrine wrote:
First thing to do is play by the normal rules. If you're playing with 700 points per team that's 350 points for each player, and the bare-minimum FOC for IG is 190 points (CCS + 2x veterans with no upgrades) leaving only 160 points, which is not enough to buy "several" artillery tanks. And I suspect that the "entire squads of grenade launchers" are taking more than the legal number of upgrade weapons.

Really? Because I spent the next few days searching the rulebook (and the IG codex) for that exact restriction, because I was PRETTY sure he couldn't put out 19 grenades per turn. Where would it be located? Also i'm new here and don't know how to multi-quote, but one of the previous responders was correct, it was roughly 700pts per army/person, working out to about 1400pts per table end


Automatically Appended Next Post:

stripeydave wrote:
What do you mean by "Two full squads of grenade launchers"?

You mean command squads (1 commander, 4 GLs) or veterans (7 guys, 3 GLs)?

Actually, I suppose that's pretty good against hordes to be fair...

no, i literally mean 19 grenade launchers.

i have since been told that that's totally not within the rules, something we as a group had suspected, but we were short on time and did the old "roll a d6 to see if that's right" trick. My buddy just started playing warhammer and the IG codex confuses him some

 nickron wrote:
Because I spent the next few days searching the rulebook (and the IG codex) for that exact restriction, because I was PRETTY sure he couldn't put out 19 grenades per turn.

CCS, 4x GL
CCS, 4x GL
Veterans, 3x GL
Veterans, 3x GL
Veterans, 3x GL
Veterans, 3x GL

Total: 20 grenade launchers, just under 500 points. So theoretically you can do it, but that won't leave room for much else.

Where would it be located?

In the army list section of the codex. Just like any other army each unit will say something like "up to three models may take one of the following: grenade launcher +X points, plasma +Y, etc". You can take four in a command squad, three in a veteran squad or special weapon squad, and one in a basic infantry squad. If your opponent is doing something like taking a veteran squad with ten grenade launchers they're cheating.

it was roughly 700pts per army/person, working out to about 1400pts per table end

You need to start playing by the normal rules then. Set a specific point limit, not "roughly 700 points". A game with 700 points per player means 700 points per player, not a single point over. If you're playing "roughly" 700 points people are going to add in extra stuff just because they can, and potentially show up with a "roughly 700 point" list that's more like 1000 points.

 Kain wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
I have the same problem. Goddamn Manticore with its triple S10 pie plate wherever the feth it wants every turn. Even if you pull some snazzy gak like a scouting deffkopta in the rear of the damn thing, unless you go first, your still going to get pie plates on the rear armour of your hidden battlewagons no matter what.

If they're always getting three shots off, they're cheating. They have to roll a 1d3 to determine how many missiles are fired.

LOL you really think people can't roll 5 or 6 on a 1d3, and that have to be cheating

orkgoffrocker wrote:
LOL you really think people can't roll 5 or 6 on a 1d3, and that have to be cheating

Please note the key word: ALWAYS. The quoted comment makes it sound like the Manticore player is claiming that it's a three-shot weapon instead of rolling the die, not just getting a bit better than average luck.

You need to start playing by the normal rules then. Set a specific point limit, not "roughly 700 points". A game with 700 points per player means 700 points per player, not a single point over. If you're playing "roughly" 700 points people are going to add in extra stuff just because they can, and potentially show up with a "roughly 700 point" list that's more like 1000 points.

Lootas and PK's; BikerBoss, NobBikerz, and MegaNobz. I've given up on any other anti-tank at this point. DeffRollas are fine if you run BW's.

If there's one thing that guard is good at, it's making their opponents feel good about slaughtering a bunch of guardsmen, while still losing the game.

Perhaps the guard player should focus less on artillery and more on respawning conscripts (with chenkov) and something else to get up-field (like hellhound variants, or stormtroopers. or al'rahem, etc.).

It's no fun if you loose a game without killing anything. Thankfully, guard are able to sustain a lot of casualties while still winning, if put together properly.

 Ailaros wrote:
It's no fun if you loose a game without killing anything.

It also isn't any fun if you have to bring units whose sole purpose is to get themselves killed because your opponents can't bother figuring out how to counter artillery, especially in a 700 point game where "focus on respawning conscripts" means "lose all your tanks and bring nothing but conscripts".