Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Plasma Cannons won't ignore the FNP.

The way I deal with Nob Bikers in my guard army is a Medusa Gun Battery with two batterys in the Squad which comes to 200pts. If i've included a Rune Priest and get the Ignores Cover power he joins the battery and forces the bikers to make saves on there invos of 5++ if they have them. If that fails there is also pre-science and fire on my target or the power that forces save re-rolls.

 Madcat87 wrote:
As a Nob Biker user I'll say one thing that every one of my opponents does that always screws them over.

If at all possible don't put you damn units on the ground floor! Obviously doesn't apply to every unit but if you have a squad of heavy weapons who don't want to get into assault put them in a ruin on the first level. I've lost count of the amount of units I've destroyed because my opponent decided to leave that one guy on the ground floor just so it could get a better shot.

Take advantage of the fact that Bikers can't go up levels and force them to take dangerous terrain tests.

That's a great piece of advice. Thanks!!

Sinji wrote:
Plasma Cannons won't ignore the FNP.

The way I deal with Nob Bikers in my guard army is a Medusa Gun Battery with two batterys in the Squad which comes to 200pts. If i've included a Rune Priest and get the Ignores Cover power he joins the battery and forces the bikers to make saves on there invos of 5++ if they have them. If that fails there is also pre-science and fire on my target or the power that forces save re-rolls.

nor will it ignore their 4+ cover save. Heavy Flamers wont ignore FNP but they will get through the cover and the armor.

Tau eat them for lunch. No sweat at all.

LValx wrote:
Tau eat them for lunch. No sweat at all.

Yep, that's what I'm worried about. I count on AP5, AP6, and AP- CC attacks to kill Termies so I know, respect, and love weight of fire.

I was worried about Helldrakes but even at 750 double Helldrakes did very little against W2 T5 5++/FNP models spread out. Those 2.5 inch biker bases only help us against all template weapons.

Tau will have no troubles getting past the Cover and the Armour Saves. The 5++ ivno, FNP and 2 wounds will be a different story. Truth is Nob Bikers have an element of there durablility that can be bypassed by most factions. But there is always something that will get through.

Best way to get rid of them is snipe the Pain Boys then hit them with S10 Instant death weapons. Even doing this is hard work as the Pain Boy gets his LOS rolls and has 2 wounds. Best way I've found so far is IG. Hit the Pain Boy with Barrage weapons and kill him then hit them with either Medusa or Manticore rounds for the ID.

Sinji wrote:
Tau will have no troubles getting past the Cover and the Armour Saves. The 5++ ivno, FNP and 2 wounds will be a different story. Truth is Nob Bikers have an element of there durablility that can be bypassed by most factions. But there is always something that will get through.

Best way to get rid of them is snipe the Pain Boys then hit them with S10 Instant death weapons. Even doing this is hard work as the Pain Boy gets his LOS rolls and has 2 wounds. Best way I've found so far is IG. Hit the Pain Boy with Barrage weapons and kill him then hit them with either Medusa or Manticore rounds for the ID.

Yep that is perfect. Also Grey Knight allies will murderlate them with Hammerhand and Force weapons and Psychout Grenades and higher Int. a single squad of 10 plus an HQ and scoring FTW!

If you can get into close combat with them, Terminators with storm shields really ruin their day.
And keep in mind, the unit costs a crapload of points and typically contains his warlord. If you can kill it quickly, your opponent is completely screwed.
Vindicators are a good choice. If he puts his warboss in front to soak up ID wounds you can always move the vindicator to the side a bit.

I don't have the new codex but I'm hoping the rules and points are close for Tau from 5th to 6th edition. What about adding a Commander Farsight for the preferred enemy orks and a small squad of fire warriors with marker light drones to get the reduction of the cover save to a 6+? Then open fire with vindicators so he's only got a 6+ cover save? Can any Tau players tell me if the points or rules for that setup have changed? But their entire role would be to mark the bikes to knock the cover save down, and catch an objective if they live to the end.

That would work but they still get the 5++ from the cybork bodies. Do marker lights effects marines?

Take a Librarian with Null Zone. This will reduce the effectiveness of the cybork invulnerable saves.

Lightning Claw assault termies or tactical termies in a land raider crusader with the Librarian. Whittle down the unit with at least two salvos from Thunderfire cannons (two) firing airburst rounds to ignore their cover saves.

Boltguns and plasmaguns in rapidfire range to clean up. Weight of fire is key.

Also, if you have him, Telion on a quad gun or Icarus as all his shots are precision. Take out the Pain Boy.

Sinji wrote:
That would work but they still get the 5++ from the cybork bodies. Do marker lights effects marines?

It says in the 5th edition codex that the effect lasts until the end of the Tau shooting phase. I'm not sure if they're taken as allies that it confers to the marines too or is it just for the Tau units itself. If it's just the Tau then the unit I described above isn't worth taking. So the bikes have a 4+ armor save, 4+ cover save, 5+ invulnerable save, and FNP with the painboy added? That's just sick. I can see why Ork players would use and/or spam those.

And they are T5 with 2 Wounds

So last night Locclo and I teamed up against a guard player. 2000 points per side.

We both took (without consulting each other) 10 NobBikerz with BikerBoss and 30 Boyz.

The Opp. had some vets, the Str 10 large blast AP 4 single shot thrower not the Manticore, 5 Marines, 10 Sternguard with Libby in a LR Crusader, a LRBT with the 2D6 armor pen single shot ???, and 2 punishers outing out 20 shot s a turn each.

It wasn't even close. Almost all 60 Boyz made it to combat.
Second turn both Punishers let loose on my partners Bikerz, 40 shots total caused exactly 1 wound after cover saves and FNP. That soul crushing moment pretty much meant the game was over. He also lost 7 Sternguard to one turn of my Bikes firing on them after they got out of the LR.

Yeah, Grey Knights might be your best bet after all.

His Str 10 pie plate was his MVP by far with at least 8 NobBiker kills.

Bring more Str 10.

 PipeAlley wrote:
So last night Locclo and I teamed up against a guard player. 2000 points per side.

We both took (without consulting each other) 10 NobBikerz with BikerBoss and 30 Boyz.

The Opp. had some vets, the Str 10 large blast AP 4 single shot thrower not the Manticore, 5 Marines, 10 Sternguard with Libby in a LR Crusader, a LRBT with the 2D6 armor pen single shot ???, and 2 punishers outing out 20 shot s a turn each.

It wasn't even close. Almost all 60 Boyz made it to combat.
Second turn both Punishers let loose on my partners Bikerz, 40 shots total caused exactly 1 wound after cover saves and FNP. That soul crushing moment pretty much meant the game was over. He also lost 7 Sternguard to one turn of my Bikes firing on them after they got out of the LR.

Yeah, Grey Knights might be your best bet after all.

His Str 10 pie plate was his MVP by far with at least 8 NobBiker kills.

Bring more Str 10.

Thanks for the quick battle report Pipe. Maybe I should just shake his hand and make him an ally!!! HAHA I just ordered 3 vindies yesterday so I'll have some str10 added to my army very soon. Thanks all for the info.

Tau Commander - 2 Missile Pods
3 Broadsides - HYMP, 4 Drones

~350 points.

24 Str 7 AP4 shots, 12 STR 5 AP5. With a little ML help to remove cover, this unit will destroy Nob Bikerz in very little time (I've been on the receiving end and it really isn't pretty).

I've lost more nob bikers to a lucky bolter hit than to fancy special weapons.

Massed small arms fire will take them down more readily than high str weaponry. Drown the unit in saving throws, they'll fail them eventually. At best they'll have a 4+ and a 5+ FNP save, nothing spectacular, and nothing a large number of wounds can't punch through. Really, just treat them as terminators, they're about as tough.

my two friends played the other; one NOB bikers and the other Chaos.

The Chaos deployed his vindicators on TOP OF SOME BUILDINGS. Not a soul said anything as it was the least expected thing. He still lost them to LOOTAs though.

So the real problem is: If you make it through the bikers, how do you make it through the Lootas?

ap2 templates will negate the armor and FNP.

I keep hearing stuff like this, but the rules say nothing about AP ignoring FNP. Can someone clear this up for me... looking at Nob Bikers myself so it makes a difference as to if I take them or not.

No - AP doesn't ignore FNP in 6th edition. That's someone with a 5th edition leftover in their brain.

STR10 will ignore FNP, however, and the vindi is STR10/AP2 so maybe they're thinking of that?

I've seen people mention Terminators so I'll comment on that. I've come against many players who brag about how their awesome deathstar will obliterate my bikers with their fancy weapons in close combat. Here's the thing though, when facing an ork list with bikers it is the ork player who decides when close combat happens. Unless you have some method of quickly devlivering those Termies to combat like a Stormraven or a Land Raider the ork player will just out maenevaur you.

I once went up against a 1k large unit of paladins and Dragio, they killed maybe 5 regular bikers because I stayed away from them the whole game.

 Madcat87 wrote:
I've seen people mention Terminators so I'll comment on that. I've come against many players who brag about how their awesome deathstar will obliterate my bikers with their fancy weapons in close combat. Here's the thing though, when facing an ork list with bikers it is the ork player who decides when close combat happens. Unless you have some method of quickly devlivering those Termies to combat like a Stormraven or a Land Raider the ork player will just out maenevaur you.

I once went up against a 1k large unit of paladins and Dragio, they killed maybe 5 regular bikers because I stayed away from them the whole game.

This is a good point, the bikers will choose their target. Bikes are fast, most other deathstars are not. Usually the bikes hit their target and are gone before the "threat" can even show up.

Ally in or take some Rune Priests with Jaws.

Try assault cannons, they may not be instant death but chew up everything t6 or less. Or if you feel like taking allies, IG hellhounds make bikes disappear, as do LR Punishers (S6, assault 20). Add plasma sponsons to it for extra gooey goodness. Sticking with strickly SM, Sternguard can shoot the tar out of bikes with their posionous shots. Take Pedro and run 10 man blobs of sternguard as troops, nothing says death to bikers like 20 4+ posion ap: 4 rounds coming down the pipe.

Actually because of the 4+ cover most ap is irrelevant.

What might be good in high numbers are full units of flash gits. They have the ignore cover special rule, and when rolling for ap will be able to bypass the 4+ cover half the time. Wih the snootier upgrade you will be getting a lot of shots off, however if you aren't able to thin them out by the time they get to melee it may be over.

There are always vengence rounds... Also if we are going with the fighting fire with fire bit, just take a squad of your own Nob Bikers.

So, whats the best way to use Nob Bikers?

Is it worth taking a whole unit of ten? To me (hardly a Nob Biker expert...) it looks like most of the units killing power comes from those PKs, and big squads would just be more bullet catchers for keeping the PK, painboy, and such alive?

Kombi-Skorchas, worth it?

Biker Boss, needed?

What about stikkbombs, or Big Choppas, or Ammo Runts?

One big unit, or two small? Or two big?!

I noticed you could take 20 Nob Bikers and two Biker bosses, two PK per unit, cybork, banner etc and some other kit for 1500 exactly. Viable?

I dont think running all bikers would be viable. You would still suffer from lack of range and a general lack of bodies to draw attention.

I've been running 5 nob bikers with a painboy, 1 PK, 1 BC and a waagh banner and lead by my warboss on a bike. These guys have brought down terminator squads and several tau vehicles. In fact, I had my warboss accept a challenge from Belial. Belial won the challenge but by the time he got back to his terminator squad, the bikes were cleaning up and ended up taking him out.

I'd say the biker boss is needed. makes them a troop choice for racing behind lines to hold objective after killing whatever was holding it.

I would like to run two 6 man squads, but think running two ten man is a little unwieldy. You still need some room for the lootas and the battlewagon boyz

 g0atsticks wrote:
my two friends played the other; one NOB bikers and the other Chaos.

The Chaos deployed his vindicators on TOP OF SOME BUILDINGS. Not a soul said anything as it was the least expected thing. He still lost them to LOOTAs though.

So the real problem is: If you make it through the bikers, how do you make it through the Lootas?

The bikers are his main weapon. He usually fields a squad of nobs in an open topped truck, deffkoptas, and killa kans. That's about all he fields. If I can break the bikes I can hand him a loss.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:
No - AP doesn't ignore FNP in 6th edition. That's someone with a 5th edition leftover in their brain.

STR10 will ignore FNP, however, and the vindi is STR10/AP2 so maybe they're thinking of that?

Yes that's true. That's some old rules still in my head. My fault.

Dakkamite wrote:So, whats the best way to use Nob Bikers?

Is it worth taking a whole unit of ten? To me (hardly a Nob Biker expert...) it looks like most of the units killing power comes from those PKs, and big squads would just be more bullet catchers for keeping the PK, painboy, and such alive?

Kombi-Skorchas, worth it?

Biker Boss, needed?

What about stikkbombs, or Big Choppas, or Ammo Runts?

One big unit, or two small? Or two big?!

I noticed you could take 20 Nob Bikers and two Biker bosses, two PK per unit, cybork, banner etc and some other kit for 1500 exactly. Viable?

kombi skorchas are worth it. I take them on all biker bosses and 40% of my biker nobs points allowing. sometimes up to 50%. (the others typically die before getting to shoot them off)

biker boss required. Personally 2 are better unless you really need to take a megaboss or big mek to bosspole your meganobs around and play babysitter.

no stikkbombs, don't pay for stuff to make assaulting into cover better. (as you'll take dangerous terrain for the charge, and every pile in move while in terrain... so likely to kill yourself on DT alone, or take a bit of damage from it)... also your init sucks anyways, so the fighting at i3 isn't so hot, when most the guys are i1 from PKs and even i3 is going to go after most things that you're afraid of in melee bar s10 PKS

big choppas are good. s6 (and s7 on charge) v t4 is wounding on 2s even after the charge. you're normal choppas also can't hurt av12/13 so big choppas help with some punch there... (also nice when you fight walkers... have had my big choppa nobs kill another ork players deff dred before he got to kill 2-3 of my bikers with S10 attacks at i2. before their PKs could swing.)

i personally think 2 small units is more dynamic. You have to take 2 biker bosses and 2 painboy/wagh banner upgrades though for them which makes it more costly.

A pure bike list is not viable unfortunately. Smart opponents will deploy in top levels of ruins (with their objectives) and you will be stuck in a losing shoot out with them all game. You can run a viable predominantly biker list, but it requires elements to push people out of those ruins back to the ground etc.. (6 mega nobs climbing up in ruins is a good way to clear the room, as is a mob of boys, kommandos, stormboys etc).. lootas / jet/ other shooting to keep them off roofs and in middle levels where you're infantry can reach from ground easier.

Icculus wrote:I dont think running all bikers would be viable. You would still suffer from lack of range and a general lack of bodies to draw attention.

I've been running 5 nob bikers with a painboy, 1 PK, 1 BC and a waagh banner and lead by my warboss on a bike. These guys have brought down terminator squads and several tau vehicles. In fact, I had my warboss accept a challenge from Belial. Belial won the challenge but by the time he got back to his terminator squad, the bikes were cleaning up and ended up taking him out.

I'd say the biker boss is needed. makes them a troop choice for racing behind lines to hold objective after killing whatever was holding it.

I would like to run two 6 man squads, but think running two ten man is a little unwieldy. You still need some room for the lootas and the battlewagon boyz

this is good advice regarding for sure bringing a boss, and the need for some support units to help clear top levels of ruins etc... (burna boys and flash gits another good tool to do this)