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Hey guys. I have been tooling around with a 1500, 1750, and 2000 point pure Ravenwing army. Here is my favorite list for a semi-competitive 2000 point ravenwing army.

HQ
Sammael - 200
- Corvex (Jet bike)

Librarian (lvl 2) - 170
- Bike
- Force Sword (or staff)
- Power Field Generator
- Plasma Pistol
- Melta Bombs

Ravenwing Command Squad (5 Knights) - 295
- Banner of Devastation
- Apothecary
- Ravenwing Grenade Launcher

Ravenwing Command Squad (5 Knights) - 250
- Ravenwing Company banner
- Champion
- Apothecary
- Ravenwing Grenade Launcher

Troops
Ravenwing Bike Squadron - 276
- Veteran Sgt w/ Power Sword, melta bombs
- Plasma Gun x2
+
Attack Bike
- Multi-Melta

Ravenwing Bike Squadron II - 276
- Veteran Sgt w/ Power Sword, melta bombs
- Plasma Gun x2
+
Attack Bike
- Multi-Melta

Ravenwing Bike Squadron - 266
- Veteran Sgt w/ Power Sword, melta bombs
- Melta Gun x2
+
Attack Bike
- Multi-Melta

Ravenwing Bike Squadron - 266
- Veteran Sgt w/ Power Sword, melta bombs
- Melta Gun x2
+
Attack Bike
- Multi-Melta

Total: 2000 pts.

I had 15 extra points so I gave the librarian a plasma pistol just because. If anyone can think of a better use for the points I would be open to suggestions. Let me know what you think of the list.

The strategy was that I would put Sammael in the RW command squad with champion and attack banner and then have the librarian with the banner of devastation command squad just zooming around and buffing everyone with divination powers (hopefully perfect timing + prescience combo on the plasma talons).

A previous list I had used Black Knights instead of command squads, but now that they can have 5 knights in the command squad I substituted them out. My one concern is that it may have difficulty dealing with horde armies if the banner of devastation gets taken down, and may dwindle my firepower too much. Also, small(ish) model count could prove to be difficult against gunlines with lots of shooting etc, as I may get whittled down to easily.

I have an alternate list that uses some land speeders instead of command squads for some light armor, speed, and lots more dakka, but I'm not sure it will outweigh the hitting power of two command squads. Any comments are appreciated!

- VardenV2

I have been playing Raven wing for years and with the new book I have been playing alot again. This list is nice and I sort of disagree with you on the having problems with hoards. This many twin bolter rounds and hit and run you will do well vs most lists. The problem you are going to have is flyers. This list will simply lose to 2 hell drakes. No cover, no armor, game over.

You need something for flyers. If your area uses forge work I highly recommend contemptor dreads with kheres cannons. Almost needed for this army and they are legal for DA armies.

 Icelord wrote:
I have been playing Raven wing for years and with the new book I have been playing alot again. This list is nice and I sort of disagree with you on the having problems with hoards. This many twin bolter rounds and hit and run you will do well vs most lists. The problem you are going to have is flyers. This list will simply lose to 2 hell drakes. No cover, no armor, game over.

You need something for flyers. If your area uses forge work I highly recommend contemptor dreads with kheres cannons. Almost needed for this army and they are legal for DA armies.

I meant against hordes I would struggle once the dev banner is down bc my firepower would be cut in half (aka back to normal) Ok... hrmmmm I hear what you are saying about the helldrakes. I know there are a few people who use them in my area but I am not sure how often they play etc. Most of the time I consider flyers to be a nuisance more than anything. I guess the best thing is to try and time it and turbo boost underneatht hem before they can spew on my bikes. But that may prove to be more difficult than I assume.

I was also considering maybe dropping one command squad for a slew of Typhoons for support. Although I would be hitting on 6's, lots of missiles possibly with prescience could deal with the helldrakes if it becomes a problem.

The great thing about helldrakes is that they are part of CSM... and I feel like this army would absolutely tear apart any CSM forces besides the helldrakes.

Keep the comments coming!

- VardenV2

A few things to consider...Ravenwing Champions (5pts) suck unless they are gunna be used to fight to take a wound instead of Sammual. For your Libby, I would stick with the staff for the time being (+2S is kinda nice to have) and drop the PP (15pts). Your Black Knights Command Squads should have an additional ADL as they are so OP right now! Your RAS shouldn't need to bring Plasma (60pts) as you have 10 Black Knights. Instead, I would equip them with Flamers (40pts) and this would solve a lot of your 'Horde' problems. Additionally, I would drop the MBs as well as you have a lot of Anti-Tank (25pts). So if you were to drop so a PW from one of the Vet Sarges then you could pick up a Darkshroud to buff a lot of your units for a couple of turns. Just my opinions though!

My main criticism is that you have too many upgrades. You don't need those Power Weapons, for example. If you dropped them all, and swapped Plasma for Flamers, you'd have 145 points. That's enough for another Ravenwing squad plus Attack Bike.

As for hordes, remember that your Bolters are averaging 16/9 hits each, in comparison to 12/9 for a regular Marine, without the Banner within 12". Add in your kiting ability and you should do fine.

Also, note that two of the main horde armies, Orks and Nids, lack long range shooting to kill the Banner, while Daemons pretty much don't have any shooting at all besides Pink Horrors.

Ok I hear what you are saying about the plasmas. The thing is that I already have a lot of the models this way from my 4th edition list and money is a bit tight so I am trying to keep things consistent. As for the RW champion, I basically just threw him in there because he has the points and as a way to accept a challenge to let Sammael go and wreck face.

I will most likely magnetize all of the special weapons hands so flamers are definitely a possibility. I actually really like them on bikers despite many people thinking they aren't quite worth it because usually you get charged if you use them. I can play around with them as possibilities. I fight a lot of Space Wolves, Grey Knights, and CSM so plasma is really good. I also fight a good amount of IG and Orks though too so we shall see.

I like to have the power weapons on my sergeants mainly for looks and lore reasons, and I actually think they are more useful than a lot of people make them out to be.

I have considered taking the Dark Shroud but I just really dislike the model and what its purpose is. I guess I just wanted a more "old school" feel to the army by going all bikes.

Thanks for the comments. Good things to think on

- VardenV2

If you play against 2 drakes you can try to ride into combat in order to prevent bikes from shooting, then you use hit&run and fire at helldrake rear armour (av10) with all those plasmas and linked bolters. If opponent have quad-gun you can try to capture it. Also PFG is useful against drake.

Dark shroud is nescessary, one squad with flamers could be useful. And its true that there is too many upgrades.

 SwistakCZC wrote:
If you play against 2 drakes you can try to ride into combat in order to prevent bikes from shooting, then you use hit&run and fire at helldrake rear armour (av10) with all those plasmas and linked bolters. If opponent have quad-gun you can try to capture it. Also PFG is useful against drake.

Dark shroud is nescessary, one squad with flamers could be useful. And its true that there is too many upgrades.

Could you elaborate on why the Darkshroud is necessary? I ask because it seems like wasted points against the Drake, which has to be the hardest counter to a Ravenwing list. What situations have made it so valuable? (I get that it could be useful, especially for only 80 points, I just don't see why it's mandatory.)

Sorry if I'm wrong but isn't the command squad limited to 3 models only?

Ah. its been FAQ'ed sorry!

Maybe it was exaggeration, but I think ds fit here.

Drake isnt only thing that can hurt this list in my opinion.

BK after turbo-boosting can have 2+ cover which boosts their survability not only against high-ap weapons (if you play hammer and anvil you have to move some distance before get into range even with scout and 12" movement) Also 3+ cover save is useful on other guys. Against chaos we gonna suffer less from plasma cannons on obliterators, if playing hammer and anvil it can matter, dont know exactly new tau lists but I think they also have some plasmas. Of course enemy can focus on darkshroud but it has good cover itself so opp gonna waste some shooting.

What upgrades do you think are unnecessary in particular?

I know many people don't like their RW sgt to have a power weapon, but I find it to be pretty useful against most of my opponents so I would keep it. The melta bombs are sort of take it or leave it in my opinion. Maybe I could drop them from the libby and the plasma squads and just have the melta squads with them, as they are going to be up close and personal with vehicles and if they somehow manage to miss, it gives me a second chance. They are only 5 points, and they can be worth it when they take down a dreadnought or a Land Raider etc.

I put the plasma pistol on the librarian because I ended up with 15 extra points. If i drop that, and two melta bombs, and the command squad champion, I should end up with 30 extra points left over. Not sure what I could buy for that :/ I could keep the champion and get rid of the melta bombs and pistol and give one of the sergeants a power fist just for giggles, but not sure it's really worth it

- VardenV2

Can't you only have 1 Ravenwing command squad? I thought only Sammael unlocked them. A librarian only unlocks a regular command squad.

Necronic Angel wrote:
Can't you only have 1 Ravenwing command squad? I thought only Sammael unlocked them. A librarian only unlocks a regular command squad.

hrmmmmmmm you may be right. I was just thinking bc the librarian is on a bike he can take a ravenwing command squad to accompany him. Bc I know the command squad thing is a 1 per HQ type deal.I'll investigate tonight. If this is the case, then I will most likely replace them with some Black Knights or Typhoons for even more dakka Perhaps a cheap bike squad though to help benefit from the salvo banner... but we shall see. I need to make this as money efficient as possible haha. Althouygh, perhaps a nice flamer squad would fit.... hmmmmmm.

- VardenV2

You can take a Ravenwing Command Squad for each HQ choice mounted on a bike, and also take one if you take Sammael. Page 96 of the codex.

It's disputed whether Techmarines on a bike unlock Command Squads, but Librarians or Chaplains work.

It's not disputed, RAW it works completely fine. Two FAQs have come out and no attempt to address the issue has been made.

Your list... I don't know where to begin.

HQ
1. Double Banner HQ is solid. PFG may be a little overkill, in general I only run it when I use vehicles because my RWCS want to be in combat tearing gak up.
2. Drop the Plasma Pistol on the Librarian, it's a waste of points. You want to be shooting your salvo bolter, not your BS4 12" plasma spud gun.
3. Axe or Staff, Sword is useless. Generally I go with Axe since the RWCS lacks AP2, and you'll be striking at I4 anyway so it's not a huge loss. Melta Bombs are superfluous. Take an Auspex instead.
4. Roll Invisibility, every time.
5. Double apothecary is overkill. One is enough, in the SoD squad.

Troops:
1. Plasma guns on bikers. Why? You have a twin-linked salvo bolter. Shoot that instead. You have 8 twin linked plasmaguns already on the CS. Melta, or Flamer if you run out of points.
2. Veteran Sarge, Power Sword, Melta-Bombs... an enormous waste of points. RAS don't want to be in combat, because they have one attack.
3. Take 3-man squads, because you pay less points and get a free character.
4. Attack bikes are great, but you never need more than three.
5. RAS are simply mobile bolters, tank hunters and late game objective scorers. The real teeth of the RW are the Black Knights and HQs. Don't go over kill on them.

HS,FA,Elite

1. Your list has no anti-air at all. This is a problem since you need to cluster around the banner and Helldrakes love that. It has no efficient way of shooting FMCs. I'd recommend the Contemptor Mortis with twin Kheres and Cyclone missile launcher. I run two at 2000 points.

2. A Darkshroud is really optional, I don't see it being necessary in a non-Black Knight list. It does hugely increase the survivability of your army, however.

3. Land Raider Crusaders synergise very well; it gives you mobile los-blocking cover, it shoots as much as two RAS and a little more, and is generally useful for blocking off terrain. Consider one.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
It's not disputed, RAW it works completely fine. Two FAQs have come out and no attempt to address the issue has been made.

Your list... I don't know where to begin.

HQ
1. Double Banner HQ is solid. PFG may be a little overkill, in general I only run it when I use vehicles because my RWCS want to be in combat tearing gak up.
2. Drop the Plasma Pistol on the Librarian, it's a waste of points. You want to be shooting your salvo bolter, not your BS4 12" plasma spud gun.
3. Axe or Staff, Sword is useless. Generally I go with Axe since the RWCS lacks AP2, and you'll be striking at I4 anyway so it's not a huge loss. Melta Bombs are superfluous. Take an Auspex instead.
4. Roll Invisibility, every time.
5. Double apothecary is overkill. One is enough, in the SoD squad.

Troops:
1. Plasma guns on bikers. Why? You have a twin-linked salvo bolter. Shoot that instead. You have 8 twin linked plasmaguns already on the CS. Melta, or Flamer if you run out of points.
2. Veteran Sarge, Power Sword, Melta-Bombs... an enormous waste of points. RAS don't want to be in combat, because they have one attack.
3. Take 3-man squads, because you pay less points and get a free character.
4. Attack bikes are great, but you never need more than three.
5. RAS are simply mobile bolters, tank hunters and late game objective scorers. The real teeth of the RW are the Black Knights and HQs. Don't go over kill on them.

HS,FA,Elite

1. Your list has no anti-air at all. This is a problem since you need to cluster around the banner and Helldrakes love that. It has no efficient way of shooting FMCs. I'd recommend the Contemptor Mortis with twin Kheres and Cyclone missile launcher. I run two at 2000 points.

2. A Darkshroud is really optional, I don't see it being necessary in a non-Black Knight list. It does hugely increase the survivability of your army, however.

3. Land Raider Crusaders synergise very well; it gives you mobile los-blocking cover, it shoots as much as two RAS and a little more, and is generally useful for blocking off terrain. Consider one.

HQ
1. I used the PFG because it would help the squad survive a bit. But I realized that it helps enemy models too, so that may kind of suck in close combat :/
2. I had the pistol because i had extra points. But yeah, i overlooked the auspex. Good idea.
3. Why is a sword useless? The whole squad has ap2 plasma talons + rending so I think I've got that aspect covered. The staff would make sense against non-MEQ and also for instant death against most ICs without needing to use the froce weapon power due to to the T reducing grenades. My rationale behind it was that the initiative of the librarian is lost using an axe, and the sword keeps that intact. Plus, against everything but terminators the sword is fine, especially if I'm using divination to get a lot more hits etc (hopefully). I guess it boils down to personal preference in weapons. I tend to like swords more than most people and don't really care for axes as much. Anyone else have opinions on the matter?
4. I was contemplating that, but I also really think divination of the bikes could be good too as forewarning, misfortune, and perfect timing would all be incredibly useful. Of course, defaulting to prescience is a bit of a waste except for the cc re-rolls due to everyone already being twin-linked. But forewarning granting a 4++ would help a lot against helldrakes, misfortune making enemies re-roll saves would be GROSS coupled with the salvo banner, and perfect timing would be great for the plasma talons as it makes the unit ignore cover, essentially only allowing invulnerable saves to take any effect. With the Telepathy tree, invisibility is amazing, but the other options are sort of meh. I have a 1/6 chance of getting it essentially, and that seems a bit too risky as opposed to a 3/6 to get something really useful from the divination tree. Anyone else have opinions?

Troops:
1. I already have one squad modeled this way so I included them. Also, I like plasma a lot. I will most likely swap out one of the squad's plasmas for flamers though, as they are pretty cool.
2. Vet upgrade for the Ld and attack, plus the sword means that I get 4 power weapon attacks from him + hammer of wrath hits from the squad at their initiative. Again, I also have the models this way already. I could maybe make a few sergeants with combi-weapons but I'm not sure how useful that would be as the bolter isn't useful after the one shot deal. Maybe having a combi flamer or something could prove useful if I get charged but not sure. In that case, I'd rather just have a power weapon and then hit and run away the next turn.
3. This is true. I will definitely consider it. The one downside is in kill point missions I don't have the option of making them larger squads :/
4. I had them to make up for the lack of melta due to the plasma and flamer guys who are goign to be included. Plus, they have can benefit from the salvo banner if need be.
5. I hear that. I toyed with another list that uses some land speeders typhoons to give them some long range power. The idea behind having the bikes instead was that more bolters = more bang for the price of the dev banner.

HS,FA,Elite
1. This is true :/ I haven't really had a lot of experience facing flyers but they are a nuisance. I figured against helldrakes the PFG would help and also possibly divination power. Also, outrunning flyers is a possibility as I am more maneuverable.

2. Darkshroud is not really an option for me. I don't care for the model and I feel it's a point sink. Im trying for a more "old school" biker army theme so I cut it.

3. LRCs are great for the dakka banner, but I think they are a ton of points for not really carrying anyone. If I had a unit of DW knights to go inside then I would consider one. I may play around with that. Maybe I will add in my Black Templar allies unit of doom to get one, some more bodies, and some cc potential.

Wow that was long, but I wanted to get my responses out there. Thanks and keep the feedback coming, it is definitely appreciated!

- VardenV2