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So, if half of what I want is in one box, and half of what I want is in another, I (a) have to swap out trays to [hopefully] fit it all into one KR box or (b) take an extra box that I don't want to lug around and a bunch of extra models that I don't want to bring with me?
No, thanks.
If that's not what's supposed to be done with the KR set up, then you've solidified my opinion that KR is not right for 40K armies.

You're comparing apples and oranges. You're discussing armies and models that can all fit in one box - skirmish games, 6mm games and the like. I'm talking about 6000+ points of pointy Dark Eldar 40K models. They don't all fit into one or 2 boxes. I seem to recall that I'd have had to have something like 8 or 9 of their cardboard boxes, according to the list the guy gave me. With an army that diverse and that large, nothing is ever all in the same box.


Eric

You're comparing apples and oranges. You're discussing armies and models that can all fit in one box - skirmish games, 6mm games and the like. I'm talking about 6000+ points of pointy Dark Eldar 40K models. They don't all fit into one or 2 boxes.

Which is why I said we all have varying needs, and what I have works for me. I don't have any 40k armies of any size, so I can't comment on how the KR solution would work for that.

 MagickalMemories wrote:
So, if half of what I want is in one box, and half of what I want is in another, I (a) have to swap out trays to [hopefully] fit it all into one KR box or (b) take an extra box that I don't want to lug around and a bunch of extra models that I don't want to bring with me?
No, thanks.
If that's not what's supposed to be done with the KR set up, then you've solidified my opinion that KR is not right for 40K armies.

You're comparing apples and oranges. You're discussing armies and models that can all fit in one box - skirmish games, 6mm games and the like. I'm talking about 6000+ points of pointy Dark Eldar 40K models. They don't all fit into one or 2 boxes. I seem to recall that I'd have had to have something like 8 or 9 of their cardboard boxes, according to the list the guy gave me. With an army that diverse and that large, nothing is ever all in the same box.


Eric

While you would have to swap your foam in and out if you wanted to mix and match previously non-mixed-and-matched set-ups, all that does is bring it level with existing foam solutions, where you would have to keep stacks of foam separately and figure out which ones you want to put where and when. So, pointing that out isn't actually pointing out a drawback at all. You still have the potential to have a more idealized storage solution that costs less and is more efficient to travel and prep with; most of the regular tourney gamers that I often interact and play with all use it at this point, and don't run into the issues you're bringing up (including myself). That said, not everything works the same for everyone, if you dislike it or are in love with another solution, that's cool too!

Regardless, as someone who has a large collection of KR Card Cases conveniently filled w/ my different armies, they're efficient enough that I can grab my entire collection of one army or another quite easily and stick them in a single carry case.

I don't know; it's cheaper, protects your miniatures better, and facilitates swapping armies in and out far better than the other products out there for this ADD multi-army 40k player. Perhaps most importantly, even if you end up swapping foam on occasion, the base card cases are much easier to label (and come taht way if desired) with what's in them, so you don't ahve to go sorting through foam trays galore or come up with new labeling procedures. It's all quite shexy.

As an aside, Daryl, who owns KR, is one of the nicest people to interact and work with out there ... and incredibly supportive of the community (i.e., donating cases and foam to every single possible thing he can if it supports charitable events, ETC teams, tournaments, conventions, etc.) in a way most other bag companies out there are not. When you put out an awesome product, AND you're also an awesome person, it certainly engenders a lot of good will from at least me within this small hobby of ours.


EDIT:

Energy transference is something also to consider when looking at soft foam vs. the harder foams out there. Hard foams - even good fits - will transfer a lot more energy into your models when your case takes a shock of some kind. The soft foam does all the flexing and disperses a lot more energy instead, so you get a lot less models breaking from impacts within their form fit foam. The perfect example of this is - last year as a bit of a fun one-of-a-kind set of prizes at NOVA, we got a sponsor who works in that sort of thing to up-armor a KR case with high level body armor, and they took a high caliber pistol to it at point blank range, 5 rounds. The armor stopped the bullets, and the card cases inside the KR took the brunt of the impact trauma ... not a single model inside (bunches of catachans with spikey bits sticking out everywhere, couple chimeras, a vendetta) was damaged. What's important to note is that with the hard foam solutions inside soft bags, all the trauma is going to smack your models harder, and the harder foam will snap off any bits or pieces that are touching it in a lot of cases (at least that's happened w/ me). The soft foam doesn't seem to do that, AND there's the hard card case as added protection (doubled w/ its much easier modular in-and-out army swapping). Was kinda cool (and a fun story to share). Gave away the "expended" bags and the un-expended up armored ones as one-off cool prizes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wrote this last year getting ready for BFS:
http://whiskey40k.blogspot.com/2012/10/why-kr-multicase-instead-of-x-bag.html

I used KR trays for moving house, all my stuff was kept safe and sound. Will be picking up their big case when I start gaming away from home.

Their bigger trays are very good

Another thing I can say about them, is that my Kaiser2 has held up to being checked on a plane. Only thing that broke was the guns off the turrets of my Fire Prisms, but they're the old ones so it's a metal-plastic joint and I've always had issues with that breaking.

I'm going to <snip> it all to H*ll, but the message I quote below has to be one of the best, if not THE best, breakdown of KR that I've ever seen. If I didn't know EXACTLY what I wanted, or if I liked soft foam, you'd have likely convinced me to give KR a try.

MVBrandt wrote:

While you would have to swap your foam in and out if you wanted to mix and match previously non-mixed-and-matched set-ups, all that does is bring it level with existing foam solutions, where you would have to keep stacks of foam separately and figure out which ones you want to put where and when. So, pointing that out isn't actually pointing out a drawback at all. You still have the potential to have a more idealized storage solution that costs less and is more efficient to travel and prep with; most of the regular tourney gamers that I often interact and play with all use it at this point, and don't run into the issues you're bringing up (including myself). That said, not everything works the same for everyone, if you dislike it or are in love with another solution, that's cool too!

I agree with your last sentence. : ) I kind of disagree with everything else.
While it IS nice that you can label your boxes, you still would have to remove & add trays from your boxes -then reswap them when you got home- in the circumstances I mentioned earlier. With keeping them in foam trays, I can see at a glance if it's what I want or not. Even if it's the 5th or 6th tray down the stack, I can lift the front of the stack a bit & peek in. Not too much of a time waster.
BF does have a technology that allows them to customize the TOP of a foam tray, if there's enough room. I'd love to see that adapted to allow labels on the side of the tray.

MVBrandt wrote:

I don't know; it's cheaper, protects your miniatures better, and facilitates swapping armies in and out far better than the other products out there for this ADD multi-army 40k player. Perhaps most importantly, even if you end up swapping foam on occasion, the base card cases are much easier to label (and come taht way if desired) with what's in them, so you don't ahve to go sorting through foam trays galore or come up with new labeling procedures. It's all quite shexy.

In my personal experience (and I understand that anecdotes do not equal data), this is not necessarily the case. It would've been more expensive for me, as my basing choice for my vehicles caused a HUGE waste of space in the KR trays, causing the need for MANY extra trays and boxes. I do agree, though, that there's something to be said for being able to just grab your box of minis & stuff it in a case or bag.

MVBrandt wrote:

As an aside, Daryl, who owns KR, is one of the nicest people to interact and work with out there ... and incredibly supportive of the community (i.e., donating cases and foam to every single possible thing he can if it supports charitable events, ETC teams, tournaments, conventions, etc.) in a way most other bag companies out there are not. When you put out an awesome product, AND you're also an awesome person, it certainly engenders a lot of good will from at least me within this small hobby of ours.

I totally believe that, re: Daryl. I find that attitude tends to trickle down from management and, if the kind of pleasant assistance I got from them when I was looking into storage solutions is any indocator -and I believe that it is- the customer service from the entire organization will be top notch.
It's good to hear he's such a big supporter to tourneys, etc.


EDIT:

MVBrandt wrote:

Energy transference is something also to consider when looking at soft foam vs. the harder foams out there. Hard foams - even good fits - will transfer a lot more energy into your models when your case takes a shock of some kind. The soft foam does all the flexing and disperses a lot more energy instead, so you get a lot less models breaking from impacts within their form fit foam. The perfect example of this is - last year as a bit of a fun one-of-a-kind set of prizes at NOVA, we got a sponsor who works in that sort of thing to up-armor a KR case with high level body armor, and they took a high caliber pistol to it at point blank range, 5 rounds. The armor stopped the bullets, and the card cases inside the KR took the brunt of the impact trauma ... not a single model inside (bunches of catachans with spikey bits sticking out everywhere, couple chimeras, a vendetta) was damaged. What's important to note is that with the hard foam solutions inside soft bags, all the trauma is going to smack your models harder, and the harder foam will snap off any bits or pieces that are touching it in a lot of cases (at least that's happened w/ me). The soft foam doesn't seem to do that, AND there's the hard card case as added protection (doubled w/ its much easier modular in-and-out army swapping). Was kinda cool (and a fun story to share). Gave away the "expended" bags and the un-expended up armored ones as one-off cool prizes.

I haven't had that experience. Since I bought the right foam for my actual needs, rather than getting "off the shelf" pre-cut ones, I've had zero breakages. Now, granted, I'm not hard on my models in transit... but, still.
When I put the WRONG models in the WRONG BF slots, I had issues. I expected this. using the slots that fit, though, I've had no problems. Even the wonky little blades on the front of some DE Warrior guns have stayed on without issue.
I don't think it's fair to compare an ARMORED KR case with an unarmored BF case. Put that same armor on a BF case, with the same models in their custom cut trays. THEN, let's see how it compares. I honestly don't know if it'll comare favorably or not, but I'd rather see if before making presumptions.

Thank you for disagreeing with me without arguing. : )

Eric

I have two of their cases now, and will buy more in the future as I need them. Fantastic brand and product.

I feel it's worth adding that KR doesn't threaten to sue people who don't like them.

I have two of KR's cardboard cases. I use them to transport Reaper figs for rpgs. I'm pretty happy with them. Haven't had any issues using them to lug around big awkward dragons like Lavarath.