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Hello, I'm new to the forum and have collected Vanilla Marines for about a year or so. I'm interested in the fluff for 1k sons I still need the codex, and have yet to familiarize myself with 6th ed. I can put roughly $300-400 worth toward miniatures for a budget. I'm looking for a gunline army, likely led by a termy sorcerer lord, as I assume that's what's needed for 1k sons to count as troops? If I'm misguided about any of this, feel free to correct me. I'm willing to consider a list going up to 1000 pts. My friend I play with plays a DE army that's fairly mobile and based on the battleforce, + scourges and mandrakes. If I could have any help with this, that'd be great!

Good day and welcome to dakkadakka fellow Tzeentchian follower. To start off, I must warn you that Thousand Sons as units really aren't that good. To make them truly effective, it will require a bit more tact. Even though I say this, they still have their uses and have some lovely models.

You would be correct in assuming you need a sorcerer to make them troops (luckily the Tzeentch mark is actually relatively good on hqs). One warning I have is that Thousand Sons are only threatening at a range of 24 with no chance to add missiles, flamers, etc.

Luckily enough, chaos is glad to accept loyalists bar a few weapons (just add spikes!). You might want to provide what vanilla marine units you already have. I'm relatively new as well so apologies if my advice wasn't that great.

All is dust.

Well, I was looking to make an army sans allies, as I don't know how that works. What I was thinking was two squads of 1k sons, a sorcerer lord (termy armour if points allow it) and perhaps havocs to compensate for the rubic marines' lack of anti-tank capability? Well, not even tank- my friend fields a sole raider for vehicles, but will play the Dias of Destruction with Vect, given the chance ( ). Unless he plays chicken and runs away all the time, I'm not worried about being out of range of his infantry. What is the sorcerer within the squad capable of?

BladeSwinga wrote:
 What is the sorcerer within the squad capable of?

Shooting little pew pews at enemies withing 18" iirc

So, a toned down version of the Librarian's smite?

So, My recommendation for a 1k list is as follows:
1 Sorcerer Lord (Termy armor if ya want it)
2 Rubric Marine Squads (2 Rhino if ya can get em)
1 Predator

As was stated, 24" is your kill zone, so a rhino is the 1k sons best friend, roll up, hop out, shoot everything.

A predator w/ lascannons is all the anti-armor you could need at low pts, plain and simple

The aspiring sorcerers can roll a anti-infantry, anti-light armor, or buff power, generally I take the anti-infantry (as it is the primaris) because your marines should be shooting at infantry with their bolters, not tanks.

That should put you at 1000pts easy and be a decent army.

That looks decent, I'll probably give that a look. My only concern is that my opponent brings an obstinate amount of anti-tank weaponry in the form of highly mobile dark- and heat-lances, so I fear for the survivability of the pred. Then again, once I pop his raider (AV 10 all around vs 3 lascannons won't live long, even with a 5+ inv) I'll just shoot at whatever is in range. Thanks for the help!

I find that just parking the predator in some trees stops alot of the pain, dark lances are short range compared to the mighty lascannon. Chill in cover across the map from him and pew pew some little raiders.\

Nice thing too, if you don't chaos the vehicles up, ultramarines and 1k sons vehicles look nearly identical, so you could use the pred with either army.

I think it would be better for you to face DE as vanilla marine since you will have razorbacks n the turret mounted weapons.

The rules as written indicated that you need a sorc with mark of tzeencth but some told me you can also use a lord with mark of tzeench.

The kit to build thousand sons are metal and plastic which is a pain. The pewter bits are the heads, pauldrons, torso, loin cloth, arms & inferno bolters. I think it is much more economical to only buy the heads and put them on your vanilla marines, paint them blue n yellow & call it a day.

To compliment the inferno bolt, you want high str n even lower ap. Therefore I recommend lascannons or meltaguns. If you put all your 1ksons in a rhino, I recommend preds with lascan spinsons so they keep pace. if you make it a gunline then I recommend some sort of good close combat units. I was going to suggest Chosen with 5 flamers, but termi with mark of tzeentch maybe better. Give them all combi meltas to deal with tanks. Another strong candidate would be regular csm with mok, trade boltets for ccw, pow fist champ or just melta bomb.

The reason why noise marines are good is bcuz their blast masters are str 8, ap3, and ignores cover so it only allows a invul saves if it pierces armor. Plague marines deliver plasma/melta guns and the occasional pow fist while being hard to kill.

 Filch wrote:

The kit to build thousand sons are metal and plastic which is a pain. The pewter bits are the heads, pauldrons, torso, loin cloth, arms & inferno bolters. I think it is much more economical to only buy the heads and put them on your vanilla marines, paint them blue n yellow & call it a day.

I find this won't be an issue, merely time consuming, as I have and adhesive that doesn't care what I'm doing. I'm not looking to replace my loyalists, just to start a second army. Thanks for the advice, though.

We don't have a lot of proper terrain, most of it is walls to provide cover for the infantry and what few trees there are came from dollar store toy soldier kits. I could probably fix this somehow, though. And it's the heat lances that are short ranged, lascannons and dark lances are equals in range, so I'll have the harder time of it, as most anti-tank weaponry he brings is fairly mobile (ie jetbikes, jump infantry, fast skimmer)

BladeSwinga wrote:

 Filch wrote:

The kit to build thousand sons are metal and plastic which is a pain. The pewter bits are the heads, pauldrons, torso, loin cloth, arms & inferno bolters. I think it is much more economical to only buy the heads and put them on your vanilla marines, paint them blue n yellow & call it a day.

I find this won't be an issue, merely time consuming, as I have and adhesive that doesn't care what I'm doing. I'm not looking to replace my loyalists, just to start a second army. Thanks for the advice, though.

We don't have a lot of proper terrain, most of it is walls to provide cover for the infantry and what few trees there are came from dollar store toy soldier kits. I could probably fix this somehow, though. And it's the heat lances that are short ranged, lascannons and dark lances are equals in range, so I'll have the harder time of it, as most anti-tank weaponry he brings is fairly mobile (ie jetbikes, jump infantry, fast skimmer)

dark lances are 36" lascans are 48"

Really? I'll have do look at my friend's codex then, as I believe he's said that they're 48" range. Thanks for that!

Just thought I'd drop another list idea here:

Ahriman: 230
7 x Thousand Sons (Melta Bombs): 201
6 x Thousand Sons (Melta Bombs): 178
Obliterator: 70
Obliterator: 70
Total: 749 points

Ahriman is pretty expensive for this point level (really Thousand Sons in general are probably going to be hard to play at a low point level) but I'd say he's worth it. He can practically take out an entire squad of infantry on his own, and his warlord trait lets D3 units infiltrate: meaning you can basically infiltrate your entire army. This means that you can start within your 24" kill zone (and get to guaranteed double-tap range within 2 turns). If you get first turn, I could see you practically tabling your opponent in a turn or two.

Obliterators should give you all the anti-tank you need at this level, especially if you don't expect many vehicles. Plus they'll be a lot more survivable than a predator, especially if you're expecting a lot of anti-tank weaponry. Leaving them as two singleton units is probably better for this level as you can potentially hit multiple vehicles a turn.

Obliterators are nearly an equal match for the predator at this point level, however I feel that in order to make Obliterators excel then need the MoN, and if you trying to be fluffy I doubt you take it.

Ahriman is really strong, and at this value, he'd be just about unstoppable. I personally prefer the generic sorcerer lord for the following reasons:

1. Spell Familiar - Ahriman can't take one, and re-rolling psychic tests with this guy can make all the difference

2. Disc of Tzeentch - Once again, Ahriman can't have, give you alot of mobility (changes sorcerer to a jetbike) and gives you +1 toughness

3. You get to name/ create the generic sorcerer. Its nothing mechanics wise but I love that the sorcerer who leads my army is of my own creation. He has a story and a very unique model, you miss out on this by taking a premade character.

Also, the 1k sons kit is actually 50% plastic and 50% resin now if you buy it from GW. The older kits are 50% metal.

I feel that night lords n 1ksons theme mesh would be interesting since ahrimand infiltrates n all the asp sorc shoot lightning. However ahriman is too expensive for this lvl.

Lord, mot, termi armor+pow axe, mb-125
Termi, hf, 2 combi melta, champ pow sword, 2 pow axe, mot-130
(compared to price of Ahriman)

1ksons+1, mb-178
1ksons+1, mb-178

raptors, 2 meltaguns-115
Raptors, 2 meltaguns-115

Oblit, mot-78
Oblit, mot-78

Total-997

Misread 750pt limit. Ignore this unless you want a 1k list for your 1ksons.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Strategy n tactic

Start board with ksons n raptors on field. If you fight gun line, ds both oblit n termi to hf the crap out of entrenched enemies. Fighting hoard, then leave oblits on board.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Use raptors to hunt tanks. Always ds your lord behind the enemy to drive them torwards your 1ksons.

Would be awesome to get master of deception for warlord trait.

Filch, I like the idea, but taking a Lord with MoT doesn't unlock Thousand Sons as troops; you need a Sorc with MoT instead. It's roughly the same points though.

General_Tso wrote:
Filch, I like the idea, but taking a Lord with MoT doesn't unlock Thousand Sons as troops; you need a Sorc with MoT instead. It's roughly the same points though.

Lords unlock Berserkers, Plague Marines and Noise Marines. Since Thousand Sons are a sorcerous army, It makes sense that only Sorcerers can control their rubric brethren.

Also, the 1k sons kit is actually 50% plastic and 50% resin now if you buy it from GW. The older kits are 50% metal.

That's what I thought, reading the description on the GW page. To my understanding, it lets you convert 10 plastic tacticals and comes with a resin sorcerer for a total of 11 models per kit and upgrade kit, yes?

These are really interesting ideas. I'd actually managed to forget that obliterators exist. They'd probably be a better idea then the pred as I'd be able to turn the more anti-infantry oriented weapons at his infantry or bikes after popping his raider. I would probably go with MoT on them anyway, as most of his shooting is poisoned 4+, and I'd have a better chance of blocking those anti-tank shots. He has nothing S 10 anyway, so I'm not worried. Don't oblits have a Daemon inv of 5+ default or something like that?

I'm thinking of taking the first list that ruricferrinwheel proposed, subbing the pred for a couple of obliterators, as I don't want to be horrendously outnumbered by his relatively cheap troops, as would be the case in the list containing Ahriman. My friend fields a squad of Wyches that he'd gladly run forth to bog down Ahriman or haywire a stationary pred to death. I know that I'll be outmanned anyway, using 1k sons, but I'd rather have 22 marines as opposed to 13. Infiltrating everything seems fun, but with only that many marines, I can't see myself gunning him down enough before getting bogged down with an archon or 4+ inv in CC wyches.

My other thought for some anti tank power would be a havoc squad with autocannons/ML/LC, or some kind of mix with these weapons. Is it worth having this vs a single AV 10 vehicle (albiet usually with a 5+ inv), or are the obliterators a better idea?

Just because oblits are using the rules for mark of nurgle doesn't stop you from making them blue and gold... don't fluff your army via the rules or you will have a table of inefficent, ineffective units. I was going to buy a large lot of 1k sons and just run them as regular old CSM, not even with MoT just because they are sick looking. I'd run a whole blue and gold, tzeentch fluffed army but I'd be damned if I'd let a poorly written/balanced book hold me back from wins.

You can justify anything to use the rules you want. Like I have an army of Khorne, but I use noise marines because they are good and efficent. If someone wants to give me crap about it I just say "They are shooting mini skull cannons. Now make your saves... oh, wait you don't have any."

The great thing about oblites is they can kill anything, and they are on a termy body. They can deep strike which can be handy as well. I find the veresatility of a obliterator squad always out performs havoks, because you can choose the best gun to use each turn.

Now that is one way to play the game, but I stand by the codex, Tzeentch may not be tourney gold, but I won't field less then nine men squads, and every model in my army has MoT. I don't win EVERY game, but I win many. A full Tzeentch list will do really well vs. a handful of armies (MeQs of any kind, Dark Eldar), it will do really bad vs. some armies (Grey Knights, Tyranids, Terminator spam, Vehicle Heavy Lists) and it will take a good general to beat the rest. Tzeentch armies require tactic, guile, and skill to win. If you want to win all your games, switch to Flycrons or Grey Knights. Fluff playstyle isn't for everyone, but I personally feel a great deal of satisfaction winning a hard fought battle with my army that doesn't use the best units, but one that's units are used the best way.

 ruricferrinwheel wrote:
Now that is one way to play the game, but I stand by the codex, Tzeentch may not be tourney gold, but I won't field less then nine men squads, and every model in my army has MoT. I don't win EVERY game, but I win many. A full Tzeentch list will do really well vs. a handful of armies (MeQs of any kind, Dark Eldar), it will do really bad vs. some armies (Grey Knights, Tyranids, Terminator spam, Vehicle Heavy Lists) and it will take a good general to beat the rest. Tzeentch armies require tactic, guile, and skill to win. If you want to win all your games, switch to Flycrons or Grey Knights. Fluff playstyle isn't for everyone, but I personally feel a great deal of satisfaction winning a hard fought battle with my army that doesn't use the best units, but one that's units are used the best way.

This is one reason I want to start a Thousand Sons chaos army. I like the way they look on paper (based on forums like this) and their fluff. I'm not saying no to a psyker in each squad! They just seem like the most fun single god focused army to play, to me anyway. I've been looking at chaos for a while, and this one spoke the most to me.

Obliterators with MoT or MoN - that's something I'll decide once I finalize what models I'll be getting. I won't have the funds for them until the beginning of August, so it's still a way off.

Is it worth buying the Dark Vengence Chaos models to give me more options, ie a larger army list or a list not dominated by Tzeentch? An aquaintance in the UK said he could get me them (and the 6th ed rule book which I have yet to get ) for cheap. Would that be any good?

BladeSwinga wrote:

 ruricferrinwheel wrote:
Now that is one way to play the game, but I stand by the codex, Tzeentch may not be tourney gold, but I won't field less then nine men squads, and every model in my army has MoT. I don't win EVERY game, but I win many. A full Tzeentch list will do really well vs. a handful of armies (MeQs of any kind, Dark Eldar), it will do really bad vs. some armies (Grey Knights, Tyranids, Terminator spam, Vehicle Heavy Lists) and it will take a good general to beat the rest. Tzeentch armies require tactic, guile, and skill to win. If you want to win all your games, switch to Flycrons or Grey Knights. Fluff playstyle isn't for everyone, but I personally feel a great deal of satisfaction winning a hard fought battle with my army that doesn't use the best units, but one that's units are used the best way.

This is one reason I want to start a Thousand Sons chaos army. I like the way they look on paper (based on forums like this) and their fluff. I'm not saying no to a psyker in each squad! They just seem like the most fun single god focused army to play, to me anyway. I've been looking at chaos for a while, and this one spoke the most to me.

Obliterators with MoT or MoN - that's something I'll decide once I finalize what models I'll be getting. I won't have the funds for them until the beginning of August, so it's still a way off.

Is it worth buying the Dark Vengence Chaos models to give me more options, ie a larger army list or a list not dominated by Tzeentch? An aquaintance in the UK said he could get me them (and the 6th ed rule book which I have yet to get ) for cheap. Would that be any good?

Dark Vengence isn't a good buy for Chaos IMO. It's a good source of cultists if you're looking for them.

Simply put , not 4 you bcuz, there are only chosen marines, cultist you wont use n a helbrute you wont ever use. U can buyy book off ebay.

U also dont plan on using termi or converting the tac marines or using bikes. Even the csm battle force is iffy since you will waste money on possed.

I think you should proxy using your vanilla marines.

Sorry bout the mot lord, a gw employee told me you can use lord to unlock 1ksons. If that is the case, how is sorc mon or mos able to unlock plague or noise marines? If you are reading rules as written , only the lord can unlock kb, plague, n noise while sorc may only unlock 1ksons & nothing else.

 Filch wrote:
Simply put , not 4 you bcuz, there are only chosen marines, cultist you wont use n a helbrute you wont ever use. U can buyy book off ebay.

U also dont plan on using termi or converting the tac marines or using bikes. Even the csm battle force is iffy since you will waste money on possed.

I think you should proxy using your vanilla marines.

Sorry bout the mot lord, a gw employee told me you can use lord to unlock 1ksons. If that is the case, how is sorc mon or mos able to unlock plague or noise marines? If you are reading rules as written , only the lord can unlock kb, plague, n noise while sorc may only unlock 1ksons & nothing else.

That's exactly right, only a chaos lord unlocks plague marines, noise marines, and berserkers, and only a sorcerer unlocks thousand sons. To the best of my knowledge, no way around this.