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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Soladrin wrote:
Yeah, but are these costs going to effect anyone outside of said companies?


in a sort of trickle down affect, and not to the same extent of those companies will feel it.
   
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The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Grundz wrote:
 djones520 wrote:

They've said they'll move if the governor signs a new bill that's been passed in Maryland.


and how many people said they'd move to canada or somolia or taiwan or whatever if obamacare passed?

talk is cheap.


Businesses don't generally kid around when they say they'll be moving. The businesses WILL move.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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 Grey Templar wrote:

Businesses don't generally kid around when they say they'll be moving. The businesses WILL move.


and what are you basing that on

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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Grey Templar wrote:
Businesses don't generally kid around when they say they'll be moving. The businesses WILL move.


Like all those companies that said they'd take all these ridiculous measures if Obamacare passed, and then didn't?

Talk is cheap. I'm not trying to turn this into a healthcare thread, just saying that the bluster of some CEO doesn't automatically have more weight than anyone else.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/02 00:55:37


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Example. Magpul. Colorado passed a state law it seems that magazines can only contain 10 rds. Magul makes 30 round magazines.. Conn adding like 10 weapons to their ban list that hit two manufacteurers outright....makers of AR/M4's type of weapons.

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Made in nz
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Auckland, New Zealand

 Hordini wrote:
 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I dunno.. I think less of your citizens and their children shot is probably worth an initial difficulty. Car manufacturers probably caused similar ripples when they had to have seat belts etc etc


I don't think having a firearms manufacturer based in or near your town increases the chances of citizens or children being shot. There are no gun manufacturers in Chicago that I know of, and they have some of the worst gun crime in the country.


I never said having them around increases your chances of being shot. However, they are getting butthurt and leaving a state because it is passing laws to try and stop people being shot. They aren't passing laws that make gun manufacturing illegal. So its the manufacturers who causing a problem by leaving, as they have the right to. I am simply saying that the laws are probably worth passing in the long run anyway, though acknowledging the associated short term ripple in the economy of an undetermined scale.
   
Made in us
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Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

There is a difference in the effect Obamacare has/will have on businesses and the effects of these other laws. IE: this will have a serious effect on the company's business.

It would be like Sonoma county passing a law saying that customers in the county can purchase no more than 1 bottle of wine per week. You'd see many wineries close up pretty fast/move.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
 Hordini wrote:
 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I dunno.. I think less of your citizens and their children shot is probably worth an initial difficulty. Car manufacturers probably caused similar ripples when they had to have seat belts etc etc


I don't think having a firearms manufacturer based in or near your town increases the chances of citizens or children being shot. There are no gun manufacturers in Chicago that I know of, and they have some of the worst gun crime in the country.


I never said having them around increases your chances of being shot. However, they are getting butthurt and leaving a state because it is passing laws to try and stop people being shot. They aren't passing laws that make gun manufacturing illegal. So its the manufacturers who causing a problem by leaving, as they have the right to. I am simply saying that the laws are probably worth passing in the long run anyway, though acknowledging the associated short term ripple in the economy of an undetermined scale.


Except the laws really will not prevent people from being shot and will only hurt the businesses.

That's why its stupid. All these laws that will have no positive effects on crime and only a negative effect on the local economy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/02 01:01:36


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
The Main Man






Beast Coast

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
 Hordini wrote:
 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I dunno.. I think less of your citizens and their children shot is probably worth an initial difficulty. Car manufacturers probably caused similar ripples when they had to have seat belts etc etc


I don't think having a firearms manufacturer based in or near your town increases the chances of citizens or children being shot. There are no gun manufacturers in Chicago that I know of, and they have some of the worst gun crime in the country.


I never said having them around increases your chances of being shot. However, they are getting butthurt and leaving a state because it is passing laws to try and stop people being shot. They aren't passing laws that make gun manufacturing illegal. So its the manufacturers who causing a problem by leaving, as they have the right to. I am simply saying that the laws are probably worth passing in the long run anyway, though acknowledging the associated short term ripple in the economy of an undetermined scale.



While they haven't made gun manufacturing illegal, some of the states have made products that the manufacturers make illegal. Like many Magpul magazines in Colorado, or AR-15s in Connecticut.

   
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 Grey Templar wrote:

It would be like Sonoma county passing a law saying that customers in the county can purchase no more than 1 bottle of wine per week. You'd see many wineries close up pretty fast/move.


no you wouldn't, because you can't move a winery, you can't rent a big zepplin and fly it over the border, they'd eat it and focus on exports to other states.
Depending on the contents of the law, the only real impact on your business is local sales, which I don't think are very large.

If you move a company, you have to eat at least a month of lost manpower for every person, and either pay to move, which is tremendous, or lose the skillset/experience of your entire workforce, its not very doable.
Magpul is a great example, since they don't actually manufacture many of their gear so moving operations doesn't hurt them nearly as much.

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 Ouze wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
Businesses don't generally kid around when they say they'll be moving. The businesses WILL move.


Like all those companies that said they'd take all these ridiculous measures if Obamacare passed, and then didn't?

Talk is cheap. I'm not trying to turn this into a healthcare thread, just saying that the bluster of some CEO doesn't automatically have more weight than anyone else.

Well... South Carolina chose not to play ball with Obamacare. But, this is OT, for OT...

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The Great State of Texas

 whembly wrote:
 Soladrin wrote:
Curiosity speaking here.

Does it matter in anyway where manufacturers are located from the publics point of view?

Not really, unless they're in your town/state. That's the point of this discussion.

When a state starts passing laws that makes it a "hostile environment" for some businesses... then THAT business is free to move elsewhere.

There are economic costs to this.


Just ask California about "hostile environment" for business. Texas and Nevada has enjoyed that quite a bit.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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 Frazzled wrote:
 whembly wrote:
 Soladrin wrote:
Curiosity speaking here.

Does it matter in anyway where manufacturers are located from the publics point of view?

Not really, unless they're in your town/state. That's the point of this discussion.

When a state starts passing laws that makes it a "hostile environment" for some businesses... then THAT business is free to move elsewhere.

There are economic costs to this.


Just ask California about "hostile environment" for business. Texas and Nevada has enjoyed that quite a bit.



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The Void

Heh now THAT is optimistic numbers.

I'm following Magpul's lead and leaving Colorado the second I finish my training. Personally I hope the big boy manufacturers move to Arizona or Texas in droves. I wouldn't mind living in either state.

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


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I imagine all sorts of businesses have failed, started, and/or relocated in the last 10 years. Somehow, the world will only fall apart if arms manufacturers do it?

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The Great State of Texas

 Ahtman wrote:
I imagine all sorts of businesses have failed, started, and/or relocated in the last 10 years. Somehow, the world will only fall apart if arms manufacturers do it?


Only if they don't relocate next to me, such that, when the wind is right, I can smell the machine oil...of FREEDOM!


*Much preferred than the smell of burning wood. Frazzled is now terrified like a tree hugging hippie at a biker rally of wildfires now. And of course Biker rallies...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/02 01:53:21


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Ahtman wrote:
I imagine all sorts of businesses have failed, started, and/or relocated in the last 10 years. Somehow, the world will only fall apart if arms manufacturers do it?


I don't think any of us are quite saying that, but the areas that the larger of these manufacturers are will be affected. IMO, it's kinda like the proverbial "Mill town" that you see in some movies... Ya know, that small town where if you don't make it out of town to play football, you get to work at the mill, that sort of place. Well, when a single entity supplies the lions share of the economy goes down, the rest of the town will be affected.


For instance, if the logging industry left Philomath, Oregon, the town would effectively cease to exist. This is because essentially every business is either in the industry (the saw mills, farms, and cutting companies), OR they support the industry's workers (clothing, grocers, etc.). There are places in the US, where the military is the sole reason a town continues to exist (and as such, these places have avoided closure under BRAC). While these examples are on the extreme end of things, I think that on the small scale, similiar could happen in the towns where Colt and Mossberg, etc. are located, should they decide to move, since some of their products are illegal to own where they are made. Although, conversely, it is still illegal to purchase alcohol in the county where Lynchburg, Tennessee is located, yet Jack Daniel's distillery is still thriving (the argument could be made that at the time these were emplaced, it WAS definitely not cost effective to try and move locations to one more friendly to alcohol consumers.
   
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Glendale, AZ

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Heh now THAT is optimistic numbers.

I'm following Magpul's lead and leaving Colorado the second I finish my training. Personally I hope the big boy manufacturers move to Arizona or Texas in droves. I wouldn't mind living in either state.


I'd love to have you back in AZ where you belong, KM!

Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
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The Void

Yeah, if I go straight into private industry my buddy and I are looking at setting up shop in Flag Staff, try to avoid the heat a little bit. We're also gonna make sure we get down to Big Sandy our first year!

Here's a sneak peek into what things look like when I'm training in class by the way.

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
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Didn't Chicago Mayor also make a run at the banks insisting they need to put weapon dealers and manufactereurs on a black list for loans? I know GE is no longer loaning money out to weapon manufacteurers and are looking to sell their asset in the weapon markets? I remember Perry push in TX gov't for their banks to offer sweet deals to any weapon manufacteurers and accessory makers to entice them to move to TX. I truly believe that Magpul will go to TX being the amount of military there. Also the size of the state police force lol

Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
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Western Kentucky

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
 Hordini wrote:
 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
I dunno.. I think less of your citizens and their children shot is probably worth an initial difficulty. Car manufacturers probably caused similar ripples when they had to have seat belts etc etc


I don't think having a firearms manufacturer based in or near your town increases the chances of citizens or children being shot. There are no gun manufacturers in Chicago that I know of, and they have some of the worst gun crime in the country.


I never said having them around increases your chances of being shot. However, they are getting butthurt and leaving a state because it is passing laws to try and stop people being shot. They aren't passing laws that make gun manufacturing illegal. So its the manufacturers who causing a problem by leaving, as they have the right to. I am simply saying that the laws are probably worth passing in the long run anyway, though acknowledging the associated short term ripple in the economy of an undetermined scale.

They're passing laws that make the products these companies are making illegal in their home state. True, they haven't banned these companies for making their products, but what's to say that won't happen in the future?

As in, they're making 30 round mags in an area that BANS 30 round mags from being in your possession, or building AR 15's in an area that specifically bans that type of rifle. I'm sure there's some sort of exception for these companies at the moment since they bring in a healthy chunk of money for their local economies, but if you're a business owner, would you want to keep making a product in a state where it's actively banned? And just because you have an exception now, doesn't mean that'll last. Even if you're not worried about legal issues, the government has effectively said "we don't want what you make here, but you're welcome to stay and keep paying us taxes." No wonder some of them are getting upset and leaving for states that are more welcoming.

It's similar in a way to the whole "LEO ban" that some companies did, where if you were in law enforcement, you were limited to what a civilian in your area could buy. It's impact is debatable at best, since no big name companies are willing to go through with it, but many companies have flat out said "If you're a cop in New York, Chicago, California, or a similar area with restrictive laws, you will be limited to what a civilian could buy. If a 30 round mag is banned for a civilian, we consider it banned for you to use as well". So if Kentucky limited us to 10 round mags tomorrow, those companies would not sell a mag over 10 rounds to cops there. It's an interesting way to protest the laws and I wished more companies would give it a try.

Although to be honest I think most businesses are moving more out right now because at least if they do it now, they can choose where they go and have time to do the move right. If they wait, and the state got so hostile that they "crack down", you'd have to move in a hurry, face possible losses of "illegal" goods, and in general just deal with a ton of unwanted headaches. It just makes sense to move now before things get worse essentially. If these states are to the point where they're banning what you make, what' makes you think there won't be someone down the line who's "Feinstein" level committed, where they want you out completely?

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Whats funny is some people think they won't go because of roots. But why work in a state thats literally hostile you. Would you as an individual continue to work in a hostile environment knowing somehow some way they're out to get you. Granted their products literally tripled in prices so they do have the funds to move. Banks in TX are quite willing to give them loans favorable to them.....Perry image as a job creater is solidified somemore. I really hope those industries in MD to get up and MOVE to TX..

Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
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Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

I'd move to Texas myself, but I can't stand heat.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
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Fort Campbell

 Soladrin wrote:
Yeah, but are these costs going to effect anyone outside of said companies?


The state of Maryland will soon be losing out in 31 million dollars of taxes. That'll have wide spread affects. Employees who don't move with the company, could be hundreds, will now be unemployed. The millions of dollars in income that the employees of the company spend on the local economy will no longer be in that local economy, so it'll have an effect on a bigger picture then just the company.

Anytime a sizable business packs up and moves, a lot of people feel it's affects.

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
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Somewhere in south-central England.

Perhaps it would be a good idea if Connecticut passed a law allowing people to carry grenades and flamethrowers. The new, business friendly environment would lead to the creation of much employment and tax revenues from companies setting up to manufacture the weapons.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

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Fort Campbell

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Perhaps it would be a good idea if Connecticut passed a law allowing people to carry grenades and flamethrowers. The new, business friendly environment would lead to the creation of much employment and tax revenues from companies setting up to manufacture the weapons.


Might be a better way to create new jobs.

I'll send the proposal to my representatives.

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Decrepit Dakkanaut





 MrMoustaffa wrote:

It's similar in a way to the whole "LEO ban" that some companies did, where if you were in law enforcement, you were limited to what a civilian in your area could buy. It's impact is debatable at best, since no big name companies are willing to go through with it, but many companies have flat out said "If you're a cop in New York, Chicago, California, or a similar area with restrictive laws, you will be limited to what a civilian could buy. If a 30 round mag is banned for a civilian, we consider it banned for you to use as well". So if Kentucky limited us to 10 round mags tomorrow, those companies would not sell a mag over 10 rounds to cops there. It's an interesting way to protest the laws and I wished more companies would give it a try.



On this one, it was actually some of the companies coming out and telling the law enforcement agencies, not individual officers, that if the citizens could not buy the company product, then they would not sell it to any law enforcement (basically, the gov't) as they felt that citizens rights are being infringed if they cannot legally own some of the same things that LEAs use. Because if an off-duty police officer owns an AR-15, he does so as a private citizen. It's the same with all of my firearms as a soldier.
   
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CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

The immediate economic effect is not the most important part of this.

I think the important point is free people are showing state and local governments they have choices and will exercise them. It shows other people and businesses that they too have choices. What if Coke and PepsiCo decided to remove their facilities from NY and not to ship product there any more?

Local (county and municipality) and state governments need to learn that there are consequences to their actions. This furthers that lesson.

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The Great State of Texas

 Grey Templar wrote:
I'd move to Texas myself, but I can't stand heat.


Neither can I.
I told the wife I'm retiring in Tennessee. She can come along too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/02 10:56:00


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in nl
Decrepit Dakkanaut






 CptJake wrote:
The immediate economic effect is not the most important part of this.

I think the important point is free people are showing state and local governments they have choices and will exercise them. It shows other people and businesses that they too have choices. What if Coke and PepsiCo decided to remove their facilities from NY and not to ship product there any more?

Local (county and municipality) and state governments need to learn that there are consequences to their actions. This furthers that lesson.


They would be laughed at for dropping such a huge money maker.
   
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The Great State of Texas

 whembly wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
Businesses don't generally kid around when they say they'll be moving. The businesses WILL move.


Like all those companies that said they'd take all these ridiculous measures if Obamacare passed, and then didn't?

Talk is cheap. I'm not trying to turn this into a healthcare thread, just saying that the bluster of some CEO doesn't automatically have more weight than anyone else.

Well... South Carolina chose not to play ball with Obamacare. But, this is OT, for OT...


Indeed much of the Obamacare threats are now occurring. Movie theater chains are reducing worker hours etc. Premiums are going up 25% to 50% for everyone. Suck it young people, paying for grandpa HAHAHAHAHAHA!


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
 
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