Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It's been 12 years, 12 long hard years since the Australians last conspired to treacherously defeat our brave and gallant British Lions

Now it's payback time! For the next few weeks, let's engage in something other than gun threads, as we give the Ozzies a good thrashing. As usual, the Australians have resorted to trickery with the tour schedule and forced us to fly all over the country in an underhand attempt to tire our players out ahead of the games.

30,000 + fans are descending down under to drown out Waltzing Matilda

Anyway, somebody should have posted this thread up days ago, but better late than never.

This is one of the few times I'm proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with the Scots (all three of them ) The Irish, and the Welsh (far too many )

Most rugby fans probably already know this, but here's the squad list. Your thoughts?


Backs: Leigh Halfpenny (Wales), Stuart Hogg (Scotland), Rob Kearney (Ireland), Tommy Bowe (Ireland), Alex Cuthbert (Wales), Sean Maitland (Scotland), George North (Wales), Jonathan Davies (Wales), Brian O'Driscoll (Ireland), Jamie Roberts (Wales), Manu Tuilagi (England), Owen Farrell (England), Jonathan Sexton (Ireland), Conor Murray (Ireland), Mike Phillips (Wales), Ben Youngs (England).

Forwards: Dan Cole (England), Cian Healy (Ireland), Gethin Jenkins (Wales), Adam Jones (Wales), Matt Stevens (England), Mako Vunipola (England), Dylan Hartley (England), Richard Hibbard (Wales), Tom Youngs (England), Ian Evans (Wales), Richie Gray (Scotland), Alun-Wyn Jones (Wales), Paul O'Connell (Ireland), Geoff Parling (England), Tom Croft (England), Toby Faletau (Wales), Jamie Heaslip (Ireland), Dan Lydiate (Wales), Sean O'Brien (Ireland), Justin Tipuric (Wales), Sam Warburton (Wales).

We're a bit short at fly-half, needs more Jonny!

There's tonnes of front 5 players, I can help but think that that is over kill against the Aussies. Possibly the expected pace down under implies more need to rotate these players.

I'm surprised to see Tom Youngs there. I would have liked to see Danny Care make it.

Cian Healy deserves it in spite of a certain stamping incident - that said I'm all for robust rucking (stamping on blatant cheats). I do it enough myself and the cheating stops.

I would have pick BO'D as skipper over Warburton, but this suggests that Gatland isn't too sure of BO'D (or the midfield) which make me wonder why he's there? Midweek captain seems a waste of talent.

Starting test back row = Warbuton, Faletau and Croft, though this seems harsh on Heaslip but hey you can't take 4!

I believe with his selections Gatland wants to all but be guaranteed to win every scrum with the forwards he's chosen.


I kinda notice a lack of outstanding Number 8 though... I mean, the ones they took are good, but, it was also pointed out during the 6 Nations, that there seems to be a lack of outstanding Number 8s outside of the southern hemisphere. But, as a hooker myself, I'm more concerned with the tight 5


I also somewhat understand why Warburton got chosen to Captain, as he also lead Wales to victory in 6 Nations, which is not to be scoffed at.

I would liked jonny to have accepted a place.It was reported he turned down the offer due to club duties,but i would have liked to have seen him in a Lions jersey again for this trip down under.

The lads we have are good,i take nothing away from them,but they are very young in the " grand scheme " of things.

Also,i would liked to have seen the scots back row lad denton on the the tour.He was one of their better players and,for me,should have gone instead of Faletau.

For a dynamic number eight,Morgan should have been picked,great with ball in hand and big and scary for the defence.

Wilkinson will be the first reserve if one of the fly halfs gets injured, but as he's got commitments with Toulon he couldn't make it out with the rest of the party.
Warburton is a much better choice for captain than O'Driscoll, who isn't even assured of a starting place. He's not been that great over the last couple of seasons for Ireland, and this seems to be a pick for sentimental reasons rather than on form. Still, unless Australia can keep their limited scrum in the game, England should have a definite advantage to play off.

 notprop wrote:
We're a bit short at fly-half, needs more Jonny!

There's tonnes of front 5 players, I can help but think that that is over kill against the Aussies. Possibly the expected pace down under implies more need to rotate these players.

I'm surprised to see Tom Youngs there. I would have liked to see Danny Care make it.

Cian Healy deserves it in spite of a certain stamping incident - that said I'm all for robust rucking (stamping on blatant cheats). I do it enough myself and the cheating stops.

I would have pick BO'D as skipper over Warburton, but this suggests that Gatland isn't too sure of BO'D (or the midfield) which make me wonder why he's there? Midweek captain seems a waste of talent.

Starting test back row = Warbuton, Faletau and Croft, though this seems harsh on Heaslip but hey you can't take 4!

Would have picked BOD for captain as well - he's got unfinished business with the lions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
I believe with his selections Gatland wants to all but be guaranteed to win every scrum with the forwards he's chosen.


I kinda notice a lack of outstanding Number 8 though... I mean, the ones they took are good, but, it was also pointed out during the 6 Nations, that there seems to be a lack of outstanding Number 8s outside of the southern hemisphere. But, as a hooker myself, I'm more concerned with the tight 5


I also somewhat understand why Warburton got chosen to Captain, as he also lead Wales to victory in 6 Nations, which is not to be scoffed at.

6Ns aside, Wales haven't beaten Australia for ages, and now Gatland thinks that the same team will beat them on their home patch. The Welsh don't travel well, so I'm very concerned.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 grrrfranky wrote:
Wilkinson will be the first reserve if one of the fly halfs gets injured, but as he's got commitments with Toulon he couldn't make it out with the rest of the party.
Warburton is a much better choice for captain than O'Driscoll, who isn't even assured of a starting place. He's not been that great over the last couple of seasons for Ireland, and this seems to be a pick for sentimental reasons rather than on form. Still, unless Australia can keep their limited scrum in the game, England should have a definite advantage to play off.

I'd take a one legged Wilko over most players any day of the week

I've noticed that no Australian has dared post on this thread yet - running scared already

Pedro Kantor wrote:
I would liked jonny to have accepted a place.It was reported he turned down the offer due to club duties,but i would have liked to have seen him in a Lions jersey again for this trip down under.

The lads we have are good,i take nothing away from them,but they are very young in the " grand scheme " of things.

Also,i would liked to have seen the scots back row lad denton on the the tour.He was one of their better players and,for me,should have gone instead of Faletau.

For a dynamic number eight,Morgan should have been picked,great with ball in hand and big and scary for the defence.

Personally, I think that there is a very good mix of youth and veteran players... Especially in the pack, it seems that the young'uns are fething massive dudes who already know a few tricks of the trade, this tour can only help them get even better as they learn from the more experienced Lions.

I'm thinking there might be no treachery this year.

To my mind Australias forwards are a shambles and have been for many years. I look to New Zealand as the benchmark for forward ruckmanship and backline running play and to be truthful Australia doesn't even match up.

Still least the lions aren't the all blicks, though i think the inclusion of so many welsh is a good thing.

Not too many years ago the Australian scrum was the worst worldwide. did they solve that problem? Massive Lions forwards should be able to push the Aussies around.

I certainly hope that is the case.There will be good competition for test front row places ( let alone the back row ) on this tour and i look forward to watching the state games very much.

 Shadowseer_Kim wrote:
Not too many years ago the Australian scrum was the worst worldwide. did they solve that problem? Massive Lions forwards should be able to push the Aussies around.

I don't think they have solved anything, scrums atrocious, rucking worse, mauling probably less said the better, and FFS don't mention the lineouts.
Papers today saying "George Smith to stop the lions" and George is old and past his prime , i think that gives a great summing up of the state of the Australian pack.

 Shadowseer_Kim wrote:
Not too many years ago the Australian scrum was the worst worldwide. did they solve that problem? Massive Lions forwards should be able to push the Aussies around.

They solved that problem by collapsing the front row at every opportunity and getting the ref to penalise the opposition. There was a time when the dictionary had a picture of Australia under the heading 'black arts!'

There is talk in the paper of the Aussies re-integrating two 'bad' boys in the form of Cooper and Beale! I'm sitting here at my desk thousands of miles away, and I can smell the desperation emanating from down under

Bullockist wrote:

 Shadowseer_Kim wrote:
Not too many years ago the Australian scrum was the worst worldwide. did they solve that problem? Massive Lions forwards should be able to push the Aussies around.

I don't think they have solved anything, scrums atrocious, rucking worse, mauling probably less said the better, and FFS don't mention the lineouts.
Papers today saying "George Smith to stop the lions" and George is old and past his prime , i think that gives a great summing up of the state of the Australian pack.

If Australia is THAT bad mate, then how are they ranked so high in the IRB? Lol

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Bullockist wrote:

 Shadowseer_Kim wrote:
Not too many years ago the Australian scrum was the worst worldwide. did they solve that problem? Massive Lions forwards should be able to push the Aussies around.

I don't think they have solved anything, scrums atrocious, rucking worse, mauling probably less said the better, and FFS don't mention the lineouts.
Papers today saying "George Smith to stop the lions" and George is old and past his prime , i think that gives a great summing up of the state of the Australian pack.

If Australia is THAT bad mate, then how are they ranked so high in the IRB? Lol

Because most of the rest are worse

Or they are saved that much by their pretty boys (and by that I mean backs)

 rodgers37 wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Bullockist wrote:

 Shadowseer_Kim wrote:
Not too many years ago the Australian scrum was the worst worldwide. did they solve that problem? Massive Lions forwards should be able to push the Aussies around.

I don't think they have solved anything, scrums atrocious, rucking worse, mauling probably less said the better, and FFS don't mention the lineouts.
Papers today saying "George Smith to stop the lions" and George is old and past his prime , i think that gives a great summing up of the state of the Australian pack.

If Australia is THAT bad mate, then how are they ranked so high in the IRB? Lol

Because most of the rest are worse

Are you suggesting that Scotland are not good at rugby

Seriously, this is a time to end division. I stand shoulder to shoulder with my Celtic Brothers against that nation that gave us Fosters and had the cheek to call it a lager!!

To be fair the Australian side that I watched at Twickenham last Autumn wasn't to shabby and held up their end of the scrum reasonably well.

That said that was a woeful England performance (that was next seen in Cardiff ) and I was of course very...very...drunk.

 notprop wrote:
To be fair the Australian side that I watched at Twickenham last Autumn wasn't to shabby and held up their end of the scrum reasonably well.

That said that was a woeful England performance (that was next seen in Cardiff ) and I was of course very...very...drunk.

And to be fair, when you are very, very drunk, things that look atrocious start to look pretty good

I'm told that my rugby knowledge goes all the way up to 11 when I've been drinking. That's factually a fact.

The way the scrum goes may depend somewhat on whether it's a southern or northern hemisphere ref, as I've noticed the interpretations can be somewhat different.

Any one know where we can watch this in the U.S. if at all?

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Any one know where we can watch this in the U.S. if at all?

I've not seen/heard anything yet... but I'd imagine that BBC America should show something, or if you have directv, it'll probably be on 490 (where Superugby is at), or 621 (fox soccer plus, aka fox Rugby, as they show a crapload more rugby than soccer)

And finally there is this thing called the Internet. Where you can easily find it live streamed, or a torrent.


As for Australia vs England Scrum. England is not exactly known for a great scrum either.

The reason Australia tends to well is because of the backs, the pace and keeping the ball alive in a play is pretty good there. Once they go to ground and ruck, it becomes anyones ball.

So as long as Australia can find holes with the backs and keep the play alive, they should be alright. I will still be rooting for the Lions.

 Shadowseer_Kim wrote:
And finally there is this thing called the Internet. Where you can easily find it live streamed, or a torrent.

I am hoping it's on a channel I get, because I'd much rather just DVR it, and watch when I can, rather than stay up to ungodly hours to watch it live on the internet (and I don't do torrents)

 Shadowseer_Kim wrote:
And finally there is this thing called the Internet. Where you can easily find it live streamed, or a torrent.


As for Australia vs England Scrum. England is not exactly known for a great scrum either.

The reason Australia tends to well is because of the backs, the pace and keeping the ball alive in a play is pretty good there. Once they go to ground and ruck, it becomes anyones ball.

So as long as Australia can find holes with the backs and keep the play alive, they should be alright. I will still be rooting for the Lions.

Thing is without a good forward pack, the ability of backs to influence the game is woefully slowed. In regards to rugby i always thing forwards first, backs a looong 2nd.

I know this as i played in a high school team with woeful forwards, without the ball backs can't do crap apart from counter attack.

 grrrfranky wrote:
The way the scrum goes may depend somewhat on whether it's a southern or northern hemisphere ref, as I've noticed the interpretations can be somewhat different.

Probably the greatest understatement I have ever read on this site!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadowseer_Kim wrote:
And finally there is this thing called the Internet. Where you can easily find it live streamed, or a torrent.


As for Australia vs England Scrum. England is not exactly known for a great scrum either.

The reason Australia tends to well is because of the backs, the pace and keeping the ball alive in a play is pretty good there. Once they go to ground and ruck, it becomes anyones ball.

So as long as Australia can find holes with the backs and keep the play alive, they should be alright. I will still be rooting for the Lions.

England not known for having a great scrum WTF x 1000!!!

Historically, England are reknown for forwards rumbling across the pitch. English rugby players can maul before they can even walk

Still at least your rooting for the lions so

Bullockist wrote:

Thing is without a good forward pack, the ability of backs to influence the game is woefully slowed. In regards to rugby i always thing forwards first, backs a looong 2nd.

I know this as i played in a high school team with woeful forwards, without the ball backs can't do crap apart from counter attack.

We have a bit of a saying on my club out here: Forwards decide who wins the game, Backs decide by how much. In the modern game, I think that this comes to light, but is a little closer run than we sometimes realize. I do think that some of the Tests can/will come down to conditions at kickoff, unless of course they schedule everything around getting the best Television audience (when games are played mostly at night)

Time to breathe some life back into this thread. Anyway, Australia has announced its 25 man squad for the series, but we already knew that thanks to it being leaked days earlier!! Whatever happened to Aussie security? Anyway, I can smell the fear. The Aussies are running scared! I'll change my prediction from 2-1 to the Lions to a 3-0 victory for the boys in red.

The squad: Australia squad

Backs: Israel Folau, Digby Ioane, Joe Tomane, Nick Cummins, Adam Ashley-Cooper, Rob Horne, Pat McCabe, Christian Lealiifano, Berrick Barnes, James O’Connor, Will Genia.

Forwards: Wycliff Palu, Michael Hooper, Liam Gill, Scott Higginbotham, Ben Mowen, Rob Simmons, James Horwill, Sitaleki Timani, James Slipper, Ben Alexander, Benn Robinson, Sekope Kepu, Stephen Moore, Saia Faingaa.


Thoughts? Comments?

I am so very very happy that the scum isn't playing (Quade). I dislike him (or at least the image he has) with a burning passion. And he's also a rubbish player.

But honestly, I couldn't call it. I haven't seen a good game of international rugby for a while, hopefully this series will change that.

 motyak wrote:
I am so very very happy that the scum isn't playing (Quade). I dislike him (or at least the image he has) with a burning passion. And he's also a rubbish player.

But honestly, I couldn't call it. I haven't seen a good game of international rugby for a while, hopefully this series will change that.

Quade is somebody I've always rated, but if the Aussie fans want to weaken the morale of their players by jumping on their backs, long may it continue

If things go the way I want them to (3-0 to the lions) then you're going to be looking for a good international game a little while longer