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2013/05/02 21:10:48
Subject: Re:This is why we don't trust the government
whembly wrote:Looks like Kansas is thumbing their nose at Eric Holder:
Spoiler:
On Thursday, Kansas Governor Sam Brownback received a letter from Federal Attorney General Eric Holder threatening action against the state should it enforce SB102 which Brownback signed into law last month.
The new law states, in part:
Any act, law, treaty, order, rule or regulation of the government of the United States which violates the second amendment to the constitution of the United States is null, void and unenforceable in the state of Kansas
The bill also provides for criminal penalties against federal agents who attempt to enforce specific federal laws on guns manufactured in the state of Kansas and sold within the state – as the state takes the position under the new law that the federal government does not “interstate commerce” authority over such items.
In his letter, Holder didn’t take too kindly to such a proposition. He wrote:
“In purporting to override federal law and to criminalize the official acts of federal officers, SB102 directly conflicts with federal law and is therefore unconstitutional.”
He continued, “Under the Supremacy Clause…Kansas may not prevent federal employees and officials from carrying out their official responsibilities. And a state certainly may not criminalize the exercise of federal responsibilities. Because SB102 conflicts with federal firearms laws and regulations, federal law supercedes this new statute; all provisions of federal laws and their implementing regulations therefore continue to apply.”
Let’s take Eric apart here.
1. Kansas is NOT purporting to criminalize the exercise of constitutional federal responsibilities. On the contrary, the bill criminalizes what the state has determined is unconstitutional. It is the position that such federal acts are indeed a violation of the Constitution. No matter how much Eric might believe it to be otherwise, his view is obviously not universal – especially in Kansas.
2. The Supremacy Clause. Holder takes the position that all tyrants do – that everything they do is authorized, anything to the contrary – worthless. But Holder is wrong. The Supremacy Clause doesn’t say that “any law in conflict with federal law” is void. It says that only those laws “in pursuance” of the constitution are supreme. The new Kansas legislation, again, takes the position that such federal acts are not constitutional, and therefore not supreme.
3. Historical Precedent. The 1850 Fugitive Slave Act was a federal law that basically required all states in the north to act as slave catchers for black people claimed as property in the South. It’s one of the most disgusting acts in American history. A number of northern states passed laws similar to the new Kansas law, criminalizing federal agents for attempting to kidnap people in their states. Although the feds still claimed the same kind of authority that Eric Holder has claimed today, they didn’t have the manpower to enforce. Read more about that here. As an aside, if Holder would like to take the position that such resistance to federal slave laws was wrong, he’s welcome to publicly state that.
Eric capped off his letter by assuring the People of Kansas that the federal government will continue to enforce all federal gun laws. He wrote:
“I am writing to inform you that federal law enforcement agencies, including the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Drug Enforcement Administration, and the United States Attorney’s Office…will continue to execute their duties to enforce all federal firearms laws and regulations.”
4. Manpower. That brings us to the most important fact, the federal government simply does not have the manpower to enforce all its laws already. The new Kansas law doesn’t just deal with firearms made within the state. It also bans all state and local agents from enforcing federal gun control measures. (learn about the bill in detail here). As Judge Andrew Napolitano has affirmed recently, such widespread noncompliance makes federal gun control laws “nearly impossible to enforce” (video here). So Eric can promise to enforce these federal acts all he wants. But if Kansas doesn’t help him, he might be able to get a 2% enforcement rate. Or, he’ll have to pull resources from other states.
WHAT SHOULD THE RESPONSE BE?
1. Hold the Line, and Tell Holder to buzz off. Seriously. This guy has been sending threatening letters to states around the country on medical marijuana laws for years (and so did his predecessors). In fact, those letters are often even more aggressive, threatening taking property or even criminal sanctions against state or local politicians. A letter last year threatened just that against the San Diego city council. (read it here) That community knows full well the threats that are constantly made against their liberties by Holder and his DOJ team. But they push on and keep doing what they believe is right. The People of Kansas need to stand strong in support of the 2nd Amendment and reject these threats from the DOJ.
2. Local resistance. Recognizing that manpower is a VERY serious problem for the feds, people in Kansas should be constantly reaching out to county, city and town elected officials to respectfully press them into passing local ordinances to ensure that no assets will be used to enforce federal gun control. Covering the states in ordinances that provide backup to the new state law will ensure that federal gun control will be “nearly impossible to enforce.”
LEARN MORE AND GET ACTION ITEMS HERE
3. Call Sam Brownback. Flood his phone line with messages of encouragement and support. Let him know that the people have his back – that’s how governors show courage. Brownback has a chance to act like a hero to the entire country. In fact, people all over the country should send him letters in support – he’s going to need all the help he can get.
4. Support efforts in other states. Kansas can’t do it alone. A similar bill is up for a signature in Alaska. Bills are moving forward in Missouri, Alabama and elsewhere. Every state and local community that does the same will make federal enforcement even more difficult, and eventually, the feds can pass all the “laws” they want, but they won’t have any effect.
JUST SAY NO!
The bad guys always talk tough, and they want to scare you into compliance . But the fact remains – they don’t have the manpower to carry out all their threats. Even with almost full state and local cooperation, there are now 18 states defying DC on marijuana prohibition. As two states – Washington and Colorado – legalize what the feds say is illegal, we’re watching the beginning of the end of federal dominance over the states.
djones520 wrote:The Constitution is the frame of our government. If they decide, against the will of the people, that it no longer matters, then I have no problem betting you'll see why our Founders ensured the 2nd Amendment was in there.
Grey Templar wrote:And because the government realizes that if we the people decide we've had it we have both the means and will to overthrow them and put in a new government.
Oh, I don't doubt that would happen. I just don't think the outcome would be anything at all like what GT thinks it would. I mean, really now. What exactly do you think of when you say "the means ... to overthrow them"?
Well, in the event of another civil war, you would have a significant portion of the armed forces leave the Federal government and side with the rebels, you would also have a significant portion simply refuse to pick a side.
Then you have what ever armories the rebels managed to seize.
That would put both sides on pretty equal footing. Leaving out any guerrilla warfare that happens. Given what hell our troops get in Afghanistan/Iraq get from insurgents armed with AKs and homemade explosives I shudder to think what we could come up with.
A Molotov Cocktail is simple and deadly. All you need is a little gas, some cloth, and a glass bottle. You could make hundreds in only a couple hours.
This all doesn't even consider what arms the citizens may have normally, thanks to the second amendment.
A second civil war would not end well for the government.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Let us not forget the million + veterans of recent wars who know how the military works, know the gear inside out, and very often have active duty buddies.
Personally I think this type of speculation is silly. A mass Civil War is so very unlikely. I could see something similar to the Battle of Athens, but a more likely scenario is a break down in a major urban area similar to the Watts or LA riots. You'll note that in those cases NG troopers under state control did fire on fellow citizens and federal troops (and federalized NG) were also used to gain/maintain order. But you must also note that the grievances of the 'rebels' were not ones that the troops would be very sympathetic too...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/02 22:28:14
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2013/05/02 22:34:51
Subject: This is why we don't trust the government
CptJake wrote: Let us not forget the million + veterans of recent wars who know how the military works, know the gear inside out, and very often have active duty buddies.
Personally I think this type of speculation is silly. A mass Civil War is so very unlikely. I could see something similar to the Battle of Athens, but a more likely scenario is a break down in a major urban area similar to the Watts or LA riots. You'll note that in those cases NG troopers under state control did fire on fellow citizens and federal troops (and federalized NG) were also used to gain/maintain order. But you must also note that the grievances of the 'rebels' were not ones that the troops would be very sympathetic too...
Yeah, mass looting isn't something I'm exactly going to defy orders to support.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2013/05/02 22:55:18
Subject: This is why we don't trust the government
Yeah, mass looting isn't something I'm exactly going to defy orders to support.
The Korean American shop owners (and their families/communities) during the LA riots are a fantastic example of why the 2nd Amendment is important. Frankly it is silly to believe that type of situation can't or won't happen again.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/02 22:55:52
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2013/05/02 23:04:42
Subject: Re:This is why we don't trust the government
whembly wrote:Looks like Kansas is thumbing their nose at Eric Holder:
Spoiler:
On Thursday, Kansas Governor Sam Brownback received a letter from Federal Attorney General Eric Holder threatening action against the state should it enforce SB102 which Brownback signed into law last month.
The new law states, in part:
Any act, law, treaty, order, rule or regulation of the government of the United States which violates the second amendment to the constitution of the United States is null, void and unenforceable in the state of Kansas
The bill also provides for criminal penalties against federal agents who attempt to enforce specific federal laws on guns manufactured in the state of Kansas and sold within the state – as the state takes the position under the new law that the federal government does not “interstate commerce” authority over such items.
In his letter, Holder didn’t take too kindly to such a proposition. He wrote:
“In purporting to override federal law and to criminalize the official acts of federal officers, SB102 directly conflicts with federal law and is therefore unconstitutional.”
He continued, “Under the Supremacy Clause…Kansas may not prevent federal employees and officials from carrying out their official responsibilities. And a state certainly may not criminalize the exercise of federal responsibilities. Because SB102 conflicts with federal firearms laws and regulations, federal law supercedes this new statute; all provisions of federal laws and their implementing regulations therefore continue to apply.”
Let’s take Eric apart here.
1. Kansas is NOT purporting to criminalize the exercise of constitutional federal responsibilities. On the contrary, the bill criminalizes what the state has determined is unconstitutional. It is the position that such federal acts are indeed a violation of the Constitution. No matter how much Eric might believe it to be otherwise, his view is obviously not universal – especially in Kansas.
2. The Supremacy Clause. Holder takes the position that all tyrants do – that everything they do is authorized, anything to the contrary – worthless. But Holder is wrong. The Supremacy Clause doesn’t say that “any law in conflict with federal law” is void. It says that only those laws “in pursuance” of the constitution are supreme. The new Kansas legislation, again, takes the position that such federal acts are not constitutional, and therefore not supreme.
3. Historical Precedent. The 1850 Fugitive Slave Act was a federal law that basically required all states in the north to act as slave catchers for black people claimed as property in the South. It’s one of the most disgusting acts in American history. A number of northern states passed laws similar to the new Kansas law, criminalizing federal agents for attempting to kidnap people in their states. Although the feds still claimed the same kind of authority that Eric Holder has claimed today, they didn’t have the manpower to enforce. Read more about that here. As an aside, if Holder would like to take the position that such resistance to federal slave laws was wrong, he’s welcome to publicly state that.
Eric capped off his letter by assuring the People of Kansas that the federal government will continue to enforce all federal gun laws. He wrote:
“I am writing to inform you that federal law enforcement agencies, including the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Drug Enforcement Administration, and the United States Attorney’s Office…will continue to execute their duties to enforce all federal firearms laws and regulations.”
4. Manpower. That brings us to the most important fact, the federal government simply does not have the manpower to enforce all its laws already. The new Kansas law doesn’t just deal with firearms made within the state. It also bans all state and local agents from enforcing federal gun control measures. (learn about the bill in detail here). As Judge Andrew Napolitano has affirmed recently, such widespread noncompliance makes federal gun control laws “nearly impossible to enforce” (video here). So Eric can promise to enforce these federal acts all he wants. But if Kansas doesn’t help him, he might be able to get a 2% enforcement rate. Or, he’ll have to pull resources from other states.
WHAT SHOULD THE RESPONSE BE?
1. Hold the Line, and Tell Holder to buzz off. Seriously. This guy has been sending threatening letters to states around the country on medical marijuana laws for years (and so did his predecessors). In fact, those letters are often even more aggressive, threatening taking property or even criminal sanctions against state or local politicians. A letter last year threatened just that against the San Diego city council. (read it here) That community knows full well the threats that are constantly made against their liberties by Holder and his DOJ team. But they push on and keep doing what they believe is right. The People of Kansas need to stand strong in support of the 2nd Amendment and reject these threats from the DOJ.
2. Local resistance. Recognizing that manpower is a VERY serious problem for the feds, people in Kansas should be constantly reaching out to county, city and town elected officials to respectfully press them into passing local ordinances to ensure that no assets will be used to enforce federal gun control. Covering the states in ordinances that provide backup to the new state law will ensure that federal gun control will be “nearly impossible to enforce.”
LEARN MORE AND GET ACTION ITEMS HERE
3. Call Sam Brownback. Flood his phone line with messages of encouragement and support. Let him know that the people have his back – that’s how governors show courage. Brownback has a chance to act like a hero to the entire country. In fact, people all over the country should send him letters in support – he’s going to need all the help he can get.
4. Support efforts in other states. Kansas can’t do it alone. A similar bill is up for a signature in Alaska. Bills are moving forward in Missouri, Alabama and elsewhere. Every state and local community that does the same will make federal enforcement even more difficult, and eventually, the feds can pass all the “laws” they want, but they won’t have any effect.
JUST SAY NO!
The bad guys always talk tough, and they want to scare you into compliance . But the fact remains – they don’t have the manpower to carry out all their threats. Even with almost full state and local cooperation, there are now 18 states defying DC on marijuana prohibition. As two states – Washington and Colorado – legalize what the feds say is illegal, we’re watching the beginning of the end of federal dominance over the states.
Also, whoever wrote that blog post really should try to learn if individual states get to determined whether or not federal laws are unconstitutional.
Brownback doing his best to impress his government hating constituents even though he will likely just get this struck down and cost us, citizens in Kansas, a bunch of money.
I love politics.
I'd also really love to move, but unfortunately I managed to buy a house right before the giant housing crash.
Breotan wrote: Here's an article showing how the private sector is stepping up and correcting hurtful action by anti-gun school officials.
A scholarship to go to "Liberty University" doesn't exactly sound like it's a huge boon, considering that their biggest advertised program is a "Criminal Justice Program Grounded in the Bible".
Because the bible tells us everything we need to know about crime the law in the modern world.
You might as well get a fething liberal arts degree. It'll be worth just as much.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/03 00:22:09
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2013/05/03 03:30:44
Subject: Re:This is why we don't trust the government
The OP in this story is a great reason why people should be furious with the legislators, such as Lindsey Graham, who in the aftermath of the Boston Bombing immediately called for the suspect to be declared an enemy combatant.
The guy with the pressure cooker bombs wasn't a threat to our freedoms, but the sentiments espoused by Senator Graham sure were.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2013/05/03 05:07:06
Subject: Re:This is why we don't trust the government
Ouze wrote: The OP in this story is a great reason why people should be furious with the legislators, such as Lindsey Graham, who in the aftermath of the Boston Bombing immediately called for the suspect to be declared an enemy combatant.
The guy with the pressure cooker bombs wasn't a threat to our freedoms, but the sentiments espoused by Senator Graham sure were.
Its quite frightening how quickly some of them are more than willing to trample all over the tenants of our society when it fits whatever agenda they happen to be pursuing at the time.
I'm with Ouze on that. We were quick as Hell trying to label this kid as an enemy combatant. Its the knee jerk reaction and jump that leads to trouble. If we start labeling enemy combatant on US soil then we pretty much have insurgents within the US. Now their friends are getting rounded up for disposing of evidence.. So if Enemy Cmbatant was label and then we arresting their friends in connection then we are scaring the public into thinking we hve terrorist cells or non tactical enemy insurgent unit operating in the US
meds
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2013/05/03 05:44:57
Subject: Re:This is why we don't trust the government
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
2013/05/03 06:00:09
Subject: This is why we don't trust the government
So what I'm wondering from all this is at what point does a person start shooting at federal officers or legislators or judges or what have you for the perceived breaking of constitutional rights that continue to go unpunished? I'm not trolling, this is actually something that I would like to know more about, at what point is it the duty of a citizen to forcefully resist the government? On a secondary related note, does no one realise that for all of the romanticism involved with the Battle of Athens and the "Rebelling against a tyrannical government that is running roughshod over the constitution." that while such actions can work against a local authority, such as the Battle of Athens, they would have had no hope in heck against a state or federal law person? Whoever drew first on the rebel side would be blown away instantly by people on the non-rebel side before the person had had a chance to convince them of the correctness of their cause. And if they let themself be taken away then the government has won has it not?
TL;DR, I'm tired confused and nicotine deprived. I'll make a better statement in the morning.
All I can think of. If there is a "revolution" it'll be huge protests around the country. The blind obidience of the military to the President a way far fetch. Lawful Orders and Unlawful orders comes into play. We had this discussion awhile back.....and I want my water cannon....
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2013/05/03 06:12:51
Subject: Re:This is why we don't trust the government
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
2013/05/03 06:17:51
Subject: Re:This is why we don't trust the government
LOL you didn't participate in that thread did you Bullock
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2013/05/03 06:27:21
Subject: Re:This is why we don't trust the government
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
2013/05/03 07:07:02
Subject: Re:This is why we don't trust the government
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2013/05/03 08:58:27
Subject: This is why we don't trust the government
Melissia wrote: A scholarship to go to "Liberty University" doesn't exactly sound like it's a huge boon, considering that their biggest advertised program is a "Criminal Justice Program Grounded in the Bible".
Because the bible tells us everything we need to know about crime the law in the modern world.
You might as well get a fething liberal arts degree. It'll be worth just as much.
I knew it was going to be a mistake to "unblock" your post, but I just had to see if you had changed.
Unsurprisingly you haven't.
You just had to take an interesting thread, and turn it into a Bible bash thread.
GG
2013/05/03 14:21:06
Subject: This is why we don't trust the government
djones520 wrote: The Constitution is the frame of our government. If they decide, against the will of the people, that it no longer matters, then I have no problem betting you'll see why our Founders ensured the 2nd Amendment was in there.
Then I'd quote:
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood ofpatriots and tyrants."
Melissia wrote: A scholarship to go to "Liberty University" doesn't exactly sound like it's a huge boon, considering that their biggest advertised program is a "Criminal Justice Program Grounded in the Bible".
Because the bible tells us everything we need to know about crime the law in the modern world.
You might as well get a fething liberal arts degree. It'll be worth just as much.
I knew it was going to be a mistake to "unblock" your post, but I just had to see if you had changed.
Unsurprisingly you haven't.
You just had to take an interesting thread, and turn it into a Bible bash thread.
GG
Pointing out that the Bible doesn't cover modern law is hardly bible bashing.
Grey Templar wrote:
A second civil war would not end well for the government.
As KK pointed out, the Government is the people. Any civil war would thus, by default, not end well for the government.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/03 14:22:53
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2013/05/03 14:28:58
Subject: This is why we don't trust the government
djones520 wrote: The Constitution is the frame of our government. If they decide, against the will of the people, that it no longer matters, then I have no problem betting you'll see why our Founders ensured the 2nd Amendment was in there.
Then I'd quote:
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood ofpatriots and tyrants."
Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.
Hardly. The last thing I would ever want is to do anything like that. The thought scares the hell out of me.
But that doesn't mean that I don't accept that it MAY be necessary one day. It could be 10 years from now, could be 200, who knows.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2013/05/03 14:34:10
Subject: This is why we don't trust the government
djones520 wrote: The Constitution is the frame of our government. If they decide, against the will of the people, that it no longer matters, then I have no problem betting you'll see why our Founders ensured the 2nd Amendment was in there.
Then I'd quote:
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood ofpatriots and tyrants."
Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.
I think you're confusing patriotism and nationalism. They're not the same thing, and there is certainly nothing inherently vicious about patriotism.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/03 14:35:37
Patriotism having become one of our topicks, Johnson suddenly uttered, in a strong determined tone, an apophthegm, at which many will start: 'Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.' But let it be considered that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self-interest.
- James Boswell's Life of Samuel Johnson (1791)
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2013/05/03 14:40:53
Subject: This is why we don't trust the government
No, the original saying was patriotism, not nationalism. It was an Oscar Wilde quote, alongside "Patriotism is the vice of nations." and the like.
I've seen many posts that think that intent behind it was closer to "Patriotism is a virtue that the vicious hide behind", but given Wilde's other quotes, I'm not sure.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2013/05/03 14:42:20
Subject: This is why we don't trust the government
djones520 wrote: The Constitution is the frame of our government. If they decide, against the will of the people, that it no longer matters, then I have no problem betting you'll see why our Founders ensured the 2nd Amendment was in there.
Then I'd quote:
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood ofpatriots and tyrants."
Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.
I think you're confusing patriotism and nationalism. They're not the same thing, and there is certainly nothing inherently vicious about patriotism.
The thing is, if I said nationalism instead of patriotism it'd no longer be an Oscar Wilde quote.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2013/05/03 15:50:22
Subject: Re:This is why we don't trust the government
whembly wrote:Looks like Kansas is thumbing their nose at Eric Holder:
Spoiler:
On Thursday, Kansas Governor Sam Brownback received a letter from Federal Attorney General Eric Holder threatening action against the state should it enforce SB102 which Brownback signed into law last month.
The new law states, in part:
Any act, law, treaty, order, rule or regulation of the government of the United States which violates the second amendment to the constitution of the United States is null, void and unenforceable in the state of Kansas
The bill also provides for criminal penalties against federal agents who attempt to enforce specific federal laws on guns manufactured in the state of Kansas and sold within the state – as the state takes the position under the new law that the federal government does not “interstate commerce” authority over such items.
In his letter, Holder didn’t take too kindly to such a proposition. He wrote:
“In purporting to override federal law and to criminalize the official acts of federal officers, SB102 directly conflicts with federal law and is therefore unconstitutional.”
He continued, “Under the Supremacy Clause…Kansas may not prevent federal employees and officials from carrying out their official responsibilities. And a state certainly may not criminalize the exercise of federal responsibilities. Because SB102 conflicts with federal firearms laws and regulations, federal law supercedes this new statute; all provisions of federal laws and their implementing regulations therefore continue to apply.”
Let’s take Eric apart here.
1. Kansas is NOT purporting to criminalize the exercise of constitutional federal responsibilities. On the contrary, the bill criminalizes what the state has determined is unconstitutional. It is the position that such federal acts are indeed a violation of the Constitution. No matter how much Eric might believe it to be otherwise, his view is obviously not universal – especially in Kansas.
2. The Supremacy Clause. Holder takes the position that all tyrants do – that everything they do is authorized, anything to the contrary – worthless. But Holder is wrong. The Supremacy Clause doesn’t say that “any law in conflict with federal law” is void. It says that only those laws “in pursuance” of the constitution are supreme. The new Kansas legislation, again, takes the position that such federal acts are not constitutional, and therefore not supreme.
3. Historical Precedent. The 1850 Fugitive Slave Act was a federal law that basically required all states in the north to act as slave catchers for black people claimed as property in the South. It’s one of the most disgusting acts in American history. A number of northern states passed laws similar to the new Kansas law, criminalizing federal agents for attempting to kidnap people in their states. Although the feds still claimed the same kind of authority that Eric Holder has claimed today, they didn’t have the manpower to enforce. Read more about that here. As an aside, if Holder would like to take the position that such resistance to federal slave laws was wrong, he’s welcome to publicly state that.
Eric capped off his letter by assuring the People of Kansas that the federal government will continue to enforce all federal gun laws. He wrote:
“I am writing to inform you that federal law enforcement agencies, including the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Drug Enforcement Administration, and the United States Attorney’s Office…will continue to execute their duties to enforce all federal firearms laws and regulations.”
4. Manpower. That brings us to the most important fact, the federal government simply does not have the manpower to enforce all its laws already. The new Kansas law doesn’t just deal with firearms made within the state. It also bans all state and local agents from enforcing federal gun control measures. (learn about the bill in detail here). As Judge Andrew Napolitano has affirmed recently, such widespread noncompliance makes federal gun control laws “nearly impossible to enforce” (video here). So Eric can promise to enforce these federal acts all he wants. But if Kansas doesn’t help him, he might be able to get a 2% enforcement rate. Or, he’ll have to pull resources from other states.
WHAT SHOULD THE RESPONSE BE?
1. Hold the Line, and Tell Holder to buzz off. Seriously. This guy has been sending threatening letters to states around the country on medical marijuana laws for years (and so did his predecessors). In fact, those letters are often even more aggressive, threatening taking property or even criminal sanctions against state or local politicians. A letter last year threatened just that against the San Diego city council. (read it here) That community knows full well the threats that are constantly made against their liberties by Holder and his DOJ team. But they push on and keep doing what they believe is right. The People of Kansas need to stand strong in support of the 2nd Amendment and reject these threats from the DOJ.
2. Local resistance. Recognizing that manpower is a VERY serious problem for the feds, people in Kansas should be constantly reaching out to county, city and town elected officials to respectfully press them into passing local ordinances to ensure that no assets will be used to enforce federal gun control. Covering the states in ordinances that provide backup to the new state law will ensure that federal gun control will be “nearly impossible to enforce.” LEARN MORE AND GET ACTION ITEMS HERE
3. Call Sam Brownback. Flood his phone line with messages of encouragement and support. Let him know that the people have his back – that’s how governors show courage. Brownback has a chance to act like a hero to the entire country. In fact, people all over the country should send him letters in support – he’s going to need all the help he can get.
4. Support efforts in other states. Kansas can’t do it alone. A similar bill is up for a signature in Alaska. Bills are moving forward in Missouri, Alabama and elsewhere. Every state and local community that does the same will make federal enforcement even more difficult, and eventually, the feds can pass all the “laws” they want, but they won’t have any effect.
JUST SAY NO!
The bad guys always talk tough, and they want to scare you into compliance . But the fact remains – they don’t have the manpower to carry out all their threats. Even with almost full state and local cooperation, there are now 18 states defying DC on marijuana prohibition. As two states – Washington and Colorado – legalize what the feds say is illegal, we’re watching the beginning of the end of federal dominance over the states.
Also, whoever wrote that blog post really should try to learn if individual states get to determined whether or not federal laws are unconstitutional.
More then Eric Holder does. Kansas actually has all the legal standing in the world on this one. So Kansas passed it's firearms protection act awhile back which was basically a "eat it" to the feds and included a legal provision that firearms made in Kansas and sold in Kansas are not subject to federal law. Several states have passed similar provisions to the latter clause (Arizona and Montana in particular) but those laws haven't been tested in court yet.* Eric Holder sent the Governor a letter saying that via the Supremacy Clause that the Kansas FPA is unconstitutional. The following is the response:
(sorry about the size, squint a little or grab your magnify function, it's worth it!)
Looking like the DOJ is gonna be spending a lot of time in court with a couple states over states rights issues this year. Washington and Colorado have go to be getting ready to roll on a court battle over legalized pot, and then there's going to be a slap down drag out fight over firearms rights.
*Now the interesting thing about guns in America is the way the Federal government regulates them. It regulates firearms the same way it regulates a lot of crap it really shouldn't be, via the Interstate Commerce Clause, which is frequently abused to expand Federal power against the States. So if firearms are made and sold only in their state of origin then they don't fall under the ICC because theoretically any way, they aren't going any where. So there's no interstate commerce for the Feds to regulate under the ICC. There's some issues there if the end user takes his AZ/KS/MT only firearm out of state, but in general the legal theory seems sound. This is of great interest to me as a gunsmith and someone who will be applying for a manufacturer's permit, probably as I take up residence in Arizona or Montana as it could strongly affect the way I do business.**
Now the crazy extension of this is just how far that "opt out" by keeping things in state extends. I haven't really sat down with a lawyer and some pro gunsmiths who know the score, but theoretically it could potentially open up legal, unregistered manufacture of NFA weapons and items, such as short barreled rifles, shotguns, suppressors and even potentially Class III (full auto) weapons. I don't really know how the various NFAs interact with the ICC and what have you, the possibilities are really interesting.
**personally I'd be down to manufacturer AZ/MT/wherever only weapons, I'd just keep a second bound book with the serial numbers for the in state only weapons, which would get prefixed with the state abbreviation, then the usual model designation (if it's one of my designs)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/03 15:51:22
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
KalashnikovMarine wrote: the bill criminalizes what the state has determined is unconstitutional.
Ah yes, I'm sure that you'd also be okay with California criminalizing the war on drugs then-- and arresting federal agents sent to shut down marijuana suppliers/sellers/users?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/03 16:09:53
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2013/05/03 16:09:45
Subject: Re:This is why we don't trust the government
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Well, it is a way to get the law to the Supreme Court, who has dodged around second amendment issues because they know they'll have to rule one specific way they don't want to. This is a way of forcing their hand somewhat.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
