Switch Theme:

Vector Strike vs Reanimation Protocols  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Calm Celestian




Florida, USA

 yakface wrote:
Fragile wrote:
The problem with that whole line of logic is that while you can resolve RP before any other end of phase items, any other end of phase items that cause casualties, will trigger a new RP. New tokens would be placed and then those tokens would have to be resolved.


That is the question that has no answer that needs to be answered.

As I said above, I think the cleanest way to play that situation that causes the fewest rules hiccups is simply to leave counters on the unit which have been placed *after* RP have been rolled for that phase and then simply roll for them at the end of whatever the next phase is.
Not that I agree or disagree with you Yak, but I have a further question concerning this:

What happens if this happens in the last Assault Phase of the bottom of Turn 7? To where there there will be no "end of whatever the next phase." I know HIWPI under Yak's interpretation, but I'm curious what Yak and others think about this as well.

There is a fine line between genius and insanity and I colored it in with crayon. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 yakface wrote:
Fragile wrote:

It is answered. You simply follow the rules of the game. Using your Black Mace. Necrons vs CSM in CC. A 10 man necron squad loses 4 to a CSM champ with BM and RP tokens are placed per the RP rule. The combat ends and morale passed. Now you reach the end of the phase. The active player can choose to either use RP or BM. He chooses RP. The rolls for reanimation are made. The BM then resolves causing a few more wounds and casualties. Those casualties are removed. Because they are removed, you now have to place new RP tokens. Once the BM finishes resolving, those RP tokens have to be resolved.



That solution works too (I'm okay with that as well), but it does allow the unit to take Reanimation Protocol rolls twice in the same phase, which could be perceived as being a bit sketchy.



The simplest way is that RP goes at the end of the turn period. RP requires that anytime a model is removed as a casualty, a token be placed and resolved, so any multiple "end of phase" conflicts that result in casualties could result in multiple RP rolls.
   
Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin




Johnson City, NewYork

Beyond the two simultaneous things as pointed out there is a bigger question. What can happen in a phase after morale checks? Can you inflict more wounds after your opponent has rolled Morale checks? Similar to many things it comes down to RAW vs RAI. I'm thinking everyone already knows which is which.

ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.

You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
Specific Vs General 
   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Los Angeles, CA

Gravmyr wrote:
Beyond the two simultaneous things as pointed out there is a bigger question. What can happen in a phase after morale checks? Can you inflict more wounds after your opponent has rolled Morale checks? Similar to many things it comes down to RAW vs RAI. I'm thinking everyone already knows which is which.


All 'end of phase' things can be resolved in the order chosen by the player whose turn it is, and that can include casualties after a unit has taken its morale check.

But note, if a unit hasn't lost 25% of its strength in the phase and it comes to the 'end of phase' you can't somehow 'skip over' that unit's 'chance' to take a morale check...if you then resolve some 'end of phase' damage that ends up then causing the unit in total to have lost 25% that phase, since you're still in the 'end of the phase', you'd still have to take a morale check for the unit.


Of course, this is not a perfect science since GW's codexes were written before this rule was in place and even the newer codexes don't seem to grasp what this sometimes entails.

So, for example, RP has to be resolved after morale checks and falling back...so you could have a situation where a Necron unit suffers Vector Strikes from multiple units. The opposing player chooses to resolve one Vector Strike first, killing some Necron models (RP tokens are placed) and then the opposing player can choose to resolve the RP rolls for the unit next (a few models get back up), then he could choose to resolve further Vector Strikes, which can result in the unit now losing 25% casualties, which should result in a morale check being taken, but doing so would break the rules for RP (as RP has to go after any morale checks and you've already rolled for RP).

Certainly the easiest way to play would be to 'force' RP to be the very last 'end of phase' thing performed (as has been suggested). The only problem of course is that's not what the RAW say...however playing it any other way does seem to lead to some complicated scenarios, so for the sake of sanity that is probably the best way to choose to play.


I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord





Eureka California

Fragile wrote:The problem with that whole line of logic is that while you can resolve RP before any other end of phase items, any other end of phase items that cause casualties, will trigger a new RP. New tokens would be placed and then those tokens would have to be resolved.


This^^

I see no logistical issues here.

the unit gains counters when it takes casualties and is told to roll for them at the end of the turn after moral checks. At any point the qualifiers are met you are required to roll. If you roll once and then lose more models it is still the end of the phase after moral tests have been made so another roll is triggered. Permission for this is given and I don't recall it saying anything that would limit the numbers of times this test can be made for a single unit per phase.

As for moral checks there is, as well, no limitation stating you roll them just once. If three units need to makes moral tests you could order it

1. unit A moral test
2. unit Z vector strike
3. unit B moral test
5. unit C moral test
but wait, the vector strike triggered another moral test in unit D so the current player orders it among the remaining 'end of phase' effects and decides...
6. unit D moral test
7. Deathleaper goes to ongoing reserves.

Moral tests are done per unit just like any other triggered effect. The real question in my mind is can RP be taken per RAW if no moral tests are made

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/05 04:57:04


-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Lets just get rid of everything but the necron unit, to establish the heart of the issue.

Unit of 5 immortals +cryptek takes 2 casualties, 1 immortal 1 cryptek, and places 1 rp and 1 el token. Unit fails Morale check, loses it's rp tokens, rolls for everliving and fails. While falling back the unit goes through dangerous terrain and loses another model, needs to place another token after rp rolls have been made and Morale checks are done. This does not cause another Morale or rp roll though, those actions are done. Like yak said you place a counter, the counter doesn't resolve but doesn't go away either, so it just sits there till the end of the next phase.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K You Make Da Call
Go to: