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Chaospling wrote:
Those of you who plays Tzeentch succesfully (Thousand Sons players are also welcome), could you post your army lists and tell how you play them or just tell us what works for you?

I would like to combine Thousand Sons with Daemons of Tzeentch, I'm just worried about giving the enemy Feel no pain and Thousand Sons cult units not being effective enough and I could imagine such an army wouldn't have a chance against Eldar.

Rubric marines sadly remain rather terrible for their cost. In the end they're just slow tac marines with AP3 bolters, a 4+ save, fearless and derp massively if their sergeant bites it. They have no grenades so a single walker will more or less eliminate them from the game if it assaults them, and while they can assault after shooting due to SaP, they're really quite bad at it. The sorcerer has force weapons and psychic goodies though.

Overall noise marines just shoot better than they can and since they can get FNP now they can tough it out too. One upside to them though, is that battle cannons and krak missiles (the traditional bane of Noise marines) bounce right off 1k sons. Plague marines can get FNP saves vs those now, sadly enough, and they get special weapons, which you don't.

Don't count on Rubrics to be your main punch, they're just really too lackluster. Ahriman is hilarious with the amount of mental dakka he can output, but now that you can't save against perils, he IS going to hurt himself in short order as he spams mind bullets. And he is VERY expensive and your opponent WILL want him dead before he shows them what warp mastery level 4 can really do.

This is the Tzeentch/Khorne list I will be taking to a tournament this coming weekend:

HQ
1 x Lord of Change, 2 x greater rewards, 1 x lesser reward (staff pf change) - warlord
1 x Bloodthirster, 1 x greater reward

Troops
10 x horrors
10 x horrors
10 x horrors
10 x horrors
10 x horrors

Fast
20 x flesh hounds
9 x screamers

Heavy
1 x soulgrinder, mark of nurgle, phlegm
1 x skullcannon

Hounds, screamers and GD's rush forward to crush the opponent in turn two. Soulgrinder and skullcannon camp in my backfield providing fire support. Horrors go for a mix of bolt and flickering depending on the composition of the opposing army and takes objectives.

The assault element will normally be quite depleted around turn four but at that time the 50 horrors are more or less intact and the opponent will rarely have enough strength left to clear them off the objectives. I focus the assault units on units that can threaten my scorers, the assault units themselves are expendable.

fredrik wrote:
This is the Tzeentch/Khorne list I will be taking to a tournament this coming weekend:

HQ
1 x Lord of Change, 2 x greater rewards, 1 x lesser reward (staff pf change) - warlord
1 x Bloodthirster, 1 x greater reward

Troops
10 x horrors
10 x horrors
10 x horrors
10 x horrors
10 x horrors

Fast
20 x flesh hounds
9 x screamers

Heavy
1 x soulgrinder, mark of nurgle, phlegm
1 x skullcannon

Hounds, screamers and GD's rush forward to crush the opponent in turn two. Soulgrinder and skullcannon camp in my backfield providing fire support. Horrors go for a mix of bolt and flickering depending on the composition of the opposing army and takes objectives.

The assault element will normally be quite depleted around turn four but at that time the 50 horrors are more or less intact and the opponent will rarely have enough strength left to clear them off the objectives. I focus the assault units on units that can threaten my scorers, the assault units themselves are expendable.

just wondering why you would take 2 gd instead of 1 gd and a few heralds blood crusher heralds can pack quite the punch and effectively give you a more potent crusher unit ill be it alot more expensive and skulltakers only real drawback is the psudo champion of choas effect as well as the only model in the cdex to keep his eternal warrior rule if i remember correctly

 muagenreaper wrote:

fredrik wrote:
This is the Tzeentch/Khorne list I will be taking to a tournament this coming weekend:

HQ
1 x Lord of Change, 2 x greater rewards, 1 x lesser reward (staff pf change) - warlord
1 x Bloodthirster, 1 x greater reward

Troops
10 x horrors
10 x horrors
10 x horrors
10 x horrors
10 x horrors

Fast
20 x flesh hounds
9 x screamers

Heavy
1 x soulgrinder, mark of nurgle, phlegm
1 x skullcannon

Hounds, screamers and GD's rush forward to crush the opponent in turn two. Soulgrinder and skullcannon camp in my backfield providing fire support. Horrors go for a mix of bolt and flickering depending on the composition of the opposing army and takes objectives.

The assault element will normally be quite depleted around turn four but at that time the 50 horrors are more or less intact and the opponent will rarely have enough strength left to clear them off the objectives. I focus the assault units on units that can threaten my scorers, the assault units themselves are expendable.

just wondering why you would take 2 gd instead of 1 gd and a few heralds blood crusher heralds can pack quite the punch and effectively give you a more potent crusher unit ill be it alot more expensive and skulltakers only real drawback is the psudo champion of choas effect as well as the only model in the cdex to keep his eternal warrior rule if i remember correctly

Mostly because I wanted multiple individual threats for my opponent to worry about in turn 1 and for some additional punch against vehicles. The heralds are super good but a jugger herald in the hound unit makes target priority a bit easier for my opponent. The great thing about FMC's as a complement to the screamers and hounds is that they all require torrent of fire to stop, the ideal scenario is my opponent spends a lot of his torrent shooting to try and ground the FMCs rather than stopping the hounds and the screamers.

My list that has seen one defeat to dark eldar venom spam with a lot of shots!

Lord Of change (sometimes fateweaver but lately prefering the LoC as he can give me a better CC fighter if and when I lose the DP's)
Herald of tzeentch, locus of conjuration lvl 2 with exlated reward
herald of tzeentch lvl 2 exalted reward

Portalgyph and grimoure go above, one roll on divination each
18 horrors
10 horrors

daemon prince tzeentch, wings armour lvl2 2 greater 1 lesser

daemon prince tzeentch, wings armour lvl2 2 greater 1 lesser

daemon prince tzeentch, wings armour lvl2 2 greater 1 lesser

Today is the first day i have lost all four FMC's, to darn Tau!, still managed to win the game as it ended on turn 5, most of the time I lose a couple of DP's but thats to be expected

I will be trying out a mix out list next of lots of troops

If you are going to run pure Tzeentch ith gunline Horrors, I really recommend an Aegis. It also gives cover to MC's before they can Swoop - not to mention going to ground for a 2++ reroll is pretty baller.

I took out Dark Eldar venom spam at a tournament two weeks ago - it is not nearly as scary now that they can be hit on 3's in cc.

 Grimmor wrote:
we used to, my old Dex had each horror firing 3 Str 4 AP 4 shots at 18 inches and then 1 Str8 AP1 Bolt of Tzeentch, i lost a ton of fire power for little to no benefit

Bingo, and don't forget deny the witch can completely nullify your shooting. Not only are you offering up FNP you are are also only shooting 1/2 to 5/6 of the turns. Tzeentch horrors are really terrible.

 calypso2ts wrote:
If you are going to run pure Tzeentch ith gunline Horrors, I really recommend an Aegis. It also gives cover to MC's before they can Swoop - not to mention going to ground for a 2++ reroll is pretty baller.

I took out Dark Eldar venom spam at a tournament two weeks ago - it is not nearly as scary now that they can be hit on 3's in cc.

First time I have played DE venom spam, so a learning experince with them

TGF, have you not seen the bat rep jy2 is doing with the pink horrors?

until you play psyker heavy armies like eldar, nids, most da and space wolf armies, just about any army that can take a psyker is going to shutdown your pink horror shooting pretty quick, which i would say is more than half the people out there when you consider SM makes up a huge % of the player base.

I'd say mono Tzeentch is a decent way to go. Easily one of the top psychic armies, you just need to use them right. They have made a decent transition between 5th and 6th edition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And then you face Eldar and cant do anything. The thing to do against Runes of Warding is assault the farseer and kill that witch before you're whole army is blocked. That is what Khorne is for!

tgf wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:
we used to, my old Dex had each horror firing 3 Str 4 AP 4 shots at 18 inches and then 1 Str8 AP1 Bolt of Tzeentch, i lost a ton of fire power for little to no benefit

Bingo, and don't forget deny the witch can completely nullify your shooting. Not only are you offering up FNP you are are also only shooting 1/2 to 5/6 of the turns. Tzeentch horrors are really terrible.

Few things are more disheartening to mono Tzeentch daemon players than watching a plague marine user thank you for improving his army's FNP to the point of being invincible and having a lot of the rest just bounce off deny the witch.

I am personally working on building a mono-Tzeentch army. Whilst I play all the gods, my favourite shall always be Tzeentch. Sadly, Tzeentch really isn't good. Horrors are an unreliable mess, Flamers are a mediocre to bad unit, the chariot's rules are deeper and make it rather worthless, the changeling isn't realpy good, and Screamers are decent at best. That being said, there is some hope! Fate Weaver and LoC are great! The heralds are pretty cheep divination units, and Daemon Princes as well as Soul Grinders are beastly as Tzeentch units.

We suffer heavily from old anti-psyker rules and all of the Deny-the-Witch however it is still possible. From what I have learned, you have to concentrate on specific units at a time. Born them in a downpour of mutating flame until nothing remains.

I do agree it is a pain when DTW happens, I have tried to mitigate this a little by putting two heralds into one big squad, all having benefit of the Locus of conjuration all having benefit of any psyhic buffs (prescience perfect timing etc) that way there is 3 psyhic tests, 3 DTW's to do.

Not much out there is mastery level 3 so not much can DTW my heralds on a 4plus the squad yes but with my DP's offering support and other horrors firing as well the FNP isnt usually a issue, I just have to make sure I overkill whatever I shoot at.

Having a 23 wound unit stroll up the field with forewarning (hopefully!) and the grimoure for 2 plus re rolling 1 saves (have managed this in my past two games, opponents love this) kicking out enough shots to down flyers and overkill most units has worked for me, to be fair my other horror squads dont really do much except sit on objectives and add some fire power here and there. I think for horrors you have to spend the points for them to be effective.

I will be trying out a horde army list next with 60 horrors, 3 tzeentch heralds, 10 plague bearers,20 blood letters, 20 flesh hounds, and herald of khorne, no idea if it will work or not but hopefully a good mix of shooting and assault