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Hey everyone, I'm really looking for some advice with CSM and I'm trying my best to come up with a list on my own but I'm kind of at a loss. I have a list here I would love some help with and maybe guide me in the proper direction with it. I have the iron warriors as my army so I tried to take their mindset and make a competitive list with it! Thanks for any help you can offer!

HQ - Warpsmith VOTLW

2 heldrakes - belflamers

10 bikers VOTLW 2 plasma mark of vengeance

20 marines VOTLW 2 plasma Mark of vengeance - Keeping their bolters on

20 marines VOTLW 2 plasma Mark of vengeance - Keeping their bolters on

3 forgefiends - hades autocannons

This totals out at 1915 points. I'm not sure where I can spend those extra points or if this list is even playable. It seems fast and has a lot of shooting potential with some high priority threats...just not sure what I should do, thanks for anything you guys can help with!

-Gharron

If I want to keep 2 blobs of csm, I would invest in mon or mot. Eventhough mot only grants a 6++ invul save, I would rather take that chance than have them die to baleflamers. Otherwise, I would split them into 10 men squads, give them spec weapons, & a rhino.

The novel, storm of iron, featured the infiltrating honzou (old chosen), berserker champ, obliterator, and defilers.

you could always run an allied detatchment with a herald of tzeentch and some horrors to cast the divination 4+ invul on said Tzeentch marines and give them a combined 3++.

You need more troops and a small unit to sit the warpsmith in to stop him from being sniped; terminators with TL autocannon or lose a forgefiend and get an ADL and a unit of havocs to sit behind it. If you are facing a horde you can stick a marine unit behind it also. The havocs would let you go higher than S8 with lascannons or let you spam autocannons more cheaply.

The bikes are good but would work well with a mark. MoN givint T6 helps stop scatterlaser spam and makes S4 attacks bounce off much more frequently.

If you stopped here the army would have the same feel and would play the same as your current list.... If you read on then I do think the main units need to be split down, you'll be able to get more assualt weapons and possibly stick a unit in a rhino to go forward with the bikes.

Well the Warpsmith could just go with one of the blobs, becoming fearless in the process and much less liable to sniperfire.

With the 85 remaining points you could get a lord with a powerweapon and meltabombs, join him with the other blob so they get a bit of cc ability. Remove the Icon of Vengeance on this squad (as the lord gives them fearless), and spend the 25 points from that on a Sigil of Corruption for him instead.

I like this list a lot, I may be biased as I too am running IW, but unlike me you've managed to not be lured by promises from the Dark Gods. Kudos to you.

As for the problem about few troops choices, I agree that two is a bit low but give it a go I say. 20 fearless marines is a hard weed to root out.

If your opponent is using Helturkeys or other powerarmour ignoring nasties, then take your time with the tape measure and make sure your marines are only just within coherency of each other. It might save a lot of IW bacon, and with a little luck frustrate the living out of your enemy

@ Blakman
Nope, the warpsmith to helps repair the foregfiends otherwise you could take another character. But your right about two blobs of fearless marines.

Ahh right offcourse, that would be prudent.
Still he can hide pretty easily between those two monsterminis so sniperfire should be a very rare thing. But I see your point.

Blakman wrote:
Well the Warpsmith could just go with one of the blobs, becoming fearless in the process and much less liable to sniperfire.

With the 85 remaining points you could get a lord with a powerweapon and meltabombs, join him with the other blob so they get a bit of cc ability. Remove the Icon of Vengeance on this squad (as the lord gives them fearless), and spend the 25 points from that on a Sigil of Corruption for him instead.

I like this list a lot, I may be biased as I too am running IW, but unlike me you've managed to not be lured by promises from the Dark Gods. Kudos to you.

As for the problem about few troops choices, I agree that two is a bit low but give it a go I say. 20 fearless marines is a hard weed to root out.

If your opponent is using Helturkeys or other powerarmour ignoring nasties, then take your time with the tape measure and make sure your marines are only just within coherency of each other. It might save a lot of IW bacon, and with a little luck frustrate the living out of your enemy

I've thought about picking up a small unit of cultists to throw in and by small I mean around 20-25, most of the iron warrior novels have them using cannon fodder which is really awesome and so very very evil =)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jasper wrote:
You need more troops and a small unit to sit the warpsmith in to stop him from being sniped; terminators with TL autocannon or lose a forgefiend and get an ADL and a unit of havocs to sit behind it. If you are facing a horde you can stick a marine unit behind it also. The havocs would let you go higher than S8 with lascannons or let you spam autocannons more cheaply.

The bikes are good but would work well with a mark. MoN givint T6 helps stop scatterlaser spam and makes S4 attacks bounce off much more frequently.

If you stopped here the army would have the same feel and would play the same as your current list.... If you read on then I do think the main units need to be split down, you'll be able to get more assualt weapons and possibly stick a unit in a rhino to go forward with the bikes.

I thought about havocs and even have the points laid out for them, I just didn't know how they weighed in against another forgefiend. I know I could trade one in for a maulerfiend or even 2 if I'm feeling froggy to move with the bikes and drakes to tear up armor and move VERY VERY fast. I could also rework points and try for a third 20 man squad for 2 more plasmas and another huge unit of marines. The ork in me just loves seeing huge blobs of guys on the field I suppose. I've thought about an ADL for this list and it seems almost necessary unless I do as you say and pick up havocs because I have no reliable air threat for now. I do fear close combat but 40 marines holding hands talking about their problems and throwing out as many bolter rounnds as possible should keep most things at bay I would think. I don't have a lot of long range though =/ 24 inches is my threat range which is...sad? Would you keep the bikes in? Is another heldrake a better choice? I've thought about noise marines, I really just wanted to run a gunline CSM list but I couldn't really figure out exactly how to make it work...

Definitely keep the bikes in; 10 bikes bearing down on a gun line or tactical list will keep the heat off the rest of your force. If you get behind a weakish flyer; your 20 TL shots will get you 6 hits probably 1 glance (if you have nothing else to do!)

Mixed feelings about lots of drakes. It takes a lot of points off the board for the first few turns. If they arrive in dribs and drabs they are vulnerable to interceptor fire. And in this instance it would rob the force of the bikes to free up a fast attack slot.

 Jasper wrote:
Definitely keep the bikes in; 10 bikes bearing down on a gun line or tactical list will keep the heat off the rest of your force. If you get behind a weakish flyer; your 20 TL shots will get you 6 hits probably 1 glance (if you have nothing else to do!)

Mixed feelings about lots of drakes. It takes a lot of points off the board for the first few turns. If they arrive in dribs and drabs they are vulnerable to interceptor fire. And in this instance it would rob the force of the bikes to free up a fast attack slot.

Would noise Marines help a list like this? I just don't know what I can do to beef this list and make it competitive :(

As a Ifellow ron Warrior player like you, I have to say this list doesn't remind me so much to a Iron Warrior army except for the warpsmith and the forgefiends (but I think there are better options too).

IMHO, a good way to improve your list is that one:

- Make smaller troops units, 10 men squads are the best option and will be good you put some extra large range weapons in your army. Also, isn't necessary you pay the vengeance icon and at same time the VOTLW. After testing so much the regular chaos space marines, I think only with VOTLW is enough.

- Same goes for biker units (but I don't see bikers in a IW army...), it's better you keep them smaller and just with VOTLW. 5 men squads well used will hurt your enemies so much.

- Could be nice to give to the aspiring champions a force sword and melta bomb, specially if you are paying for VOTLW. Melta bomb could be specually usefull in the biker aspiring champion.

- Maybe you didn't think about them, but, how about to use some chaos dreadnoughts (AKA hellbrute) as supports? I think they can help you in many situations and you can still repair them!

Well, as I said before, all what I said is only my opinion. Just check is something of what I said could be useful for your game's style or not.

Regards brother.

Warpsmith on a bike. Give both the bikers and the warpsmith the MoN (model/paint it as cybernetics).

Blob CSMs are very, very meh. You can try the MoN on them but they will get expensive quick. If you are dead set get a lvl 3 sorc with telepathy as he has a good chance of getting ivisbility which will help keep your blob alive long enough to do anything. Also make sure they have uber-grit (CCW, BP, and bolter) so they are flexible. Cultists are also invaluable for blocking shots to your blobs and act as great backfield holders which you need.

I'd make 2 of the forgefiends maulerfiends.

Warpsmith can only take items from Ranged weapons, Chaos rewards and Chaos artefacts. Not from Special issue wargear which the bike is a part of.

 Zmanzeta wrote:
As a Ifellow ron Warrior player like you, I have to say this list doesn't remind me so much to a Iron Warrior army except for the warpsmith and the forgefiends (but I think there are better options too).

IMHO, a good way to improve your list is that one:

- Make smaller troops units, 10 men squads are the best option and will be good you put some extra large range weapons in your army. Also, isn't necessary you pay the vengeance icon and at same time the VOTLW. After testing so much the regular chaos space marines, I think only with VOTLW is enough.

- Same goes for biker units (but I don't see bikers in a IW army...), it's better you keep them smaller and just with VOTLW. 5 men squads well used will hurt your enemies so much.

- Could be nice to give to the aspiring champions a force sword and melta bomb, specially if you are paying for VOTLW. Melta bomb could be specually usefull in the biker aspiring champion.

- Maybe you didn't think about them, but, how about to use some chaos dreadnoughts (AKA hellbrute) as supports? I think they can help you in many situations and you can still repair them!

Well, as I said before, all what I said is only my opinion. Just check is something of what I said could be useful for your game's style or not.

Regards brother.

What do you feel like is an iron warriors list? I know that bikes aren't a huge part of the iron warriors and the warpsmith and forgefiends are iron warriors but there's not much else in our codex that isn't going to take the same slot over and over. Oblits vindis forgefiends are all heavies...I know that we use a lot of cultists for "fodder" which I thought about doing like when they used them to check the range on the enemies weapons' but I just couldn't really come up with a fluffy competitive iron warriors list so I took what I could =[

Do you guys think putting in some noise marines with a cheap lord would make this better? I just don't really know what to do with this list to make it better. If I do cut the marine units down I could go to 4 ten man squads and have 4 plasma guns but I end up with the same number right? Such a confused chaos player I am =[

I honestly think you should give your first list a go, and see how it performs. I have had great success with my 20 man blob in lots of games (albeit with MoN), and I can only imagine the pain your opponent must go through having to remove two of those.
The support you got them is pretty solid, and if you just remember to space your marines properly - 1.9999" apart - to minimize losses from enemy templates you should be fine.

Also, basing your army on the fluff from one Black Library novel shows an utter lack of imagination.
When I think of the IW warcry "Iron without, iron within!" that they chan unendingl whilst marching relentlessly towards enemy positions, its hard not to magine them in huge squads to intimidate the foe.

in my opinion two 20man blobs is costly and inefficient. Some of the posts I skimmed through mentioned making them fearless through a character which i highly support but would say to break them into four 10 man squads. you need 4 troops badly at 2k.

I think you need a lot more armor saturation. Else your 3 forge fiends aren't going to last long.

A lot of lists are real shooty these days in 6e. Having only 3 AV 12 targets (the rest are all infantry). They won't last. Your warp smith can't repair something that is already wrecked or exploded. That's what those 3 forge fiends are going to be in very short order unless you have more armor on the board. If a list with any amount of shooting faces your armor. The priority of targets is very obvious.

Turn 1 to 2. All guns on forge fiend, then the warpsmith. After those are dead, he got lost of time left to then worry about your foot slogging troops. Hell drakes only come in turn 2 or later. Most lists these days have some short of anti air. I think you need to split up your infantry and put them in Rhinos. You need more armored targets so that the forge fiends are less of an obvious choice to shoot.

If you have troops sporting special weapons (plasam, meltas) in Rhinos, and your Rhinos flat out 18 inches turn 1. He now has to decide. If he doesn't pop your Rhinos turn 1, turn 2, your troops will unload in his face and start to melta, plasma him. So now he has to decide if he shoots your Rhinos, or shoot your forge fiends. Don't worry about first blood. You have AV12 vehicles, you will most likely give up first blood even without Rhinos already. So might as well take them.

I think take at most one helldrake, or maybe even none at all. Hell drakes are good, but your army needs more targets and presence on the battlefield. You are just giving overly obvious choices for your opponent to focus fire on.

If you took 6 Rhinos, each one with a 10 CSM squad with 2 plasma guns. And each Rhino had a Combi plasma/melta. Then turn 1, he has 6 Rhinos and 3 Forgefiends inbound. Each Rhino could unleash up to 6 plasma shots if not dealt with. Suddenly, the forgefiends are not the only target now. Keep the CSM squads cheap. No marks, no bells and whistles, just bolters. 60 CSM with 12 plasma guns will give any army a headache to deal with.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
I think you need a lot more armor saturation. Else your 3 forge fiends aren't going to last long.

A lot of lists are real shooty these days in 6e. Having only 3 AV 12 targets (the rest are all infantry). They won't last. Your warp smith can't repair something that is already wrecked or exploded. That's what those 3 forge fiends are going to be in very short order unless you have more armor on the board. If a list with any amount of shooting faces your armor. The priority of targets is very obvious.

Turn 1 to 2. All guns on forge fiend, then the warpsmith. After those are dead, he got lost of time left to then worry about your foot slogging troops. Hell drakes only come in turn 2 or later. Most lists these days have some short of anti air. I think you need to split up your infantry and put them in Rhinos. You need more armored targets so that the forge fiends are less of an obvious choice to shoot.

If you have troops sporting special weapons (plasam, meltas) in Rhinos, and your Rhinos flat out 18 inches turn 1. He now has to decide. If he doesn't pop your Rhinos turn 1, turn 2, your troops will unload in his face and start to melta, plasma him. So now he has to decide if he shoots your Rhinos, or shoot your forge fiends. Don't worry about first blood. You have AV12 vehicles, you will most likely give up first blood even without Rhinos already. So might as well take them.

I think take at most one helldrake, not two. Hell drakes are good, but your army needs more targets and presence on the battlefield. You are just giving overly obvious choices for your opponent to focus fire on.

If you took 6 Rhinos, each one with a 10 CSM squad with 2 plasma guns. And each Rhino had a Combi plasma/melta. Then turn 1, he has 6 Rhinos and 3 Forgefiends inbound. Each Rhino could unleash up to 6 plasma shots if not dealt with. Suddenly, the forgefiends are not the only target now. Keep the CSM squads cheap. No marks, no bells and whistles, just bolters. 60 CSM with 12 plasma guns will give any army a headache to deal with.

What do you think I should do with this list to make it more gunline? I know you said add in more armor but what kind? I never really know what to do with chaos, I looked into a daemon prince for an HQ, after kind of looking things over I don't think the warpsmith is even good enough to cover the losses I'll take with armor 12. Is there a better heavy support option? I like the look of havocs to cover anti air and I thought about a lord on juggernaut. I just liked the idea of gunline but I just don't even know where to start =/

Predator tanks are not too bad for a more gun line style CSM army. They are AV13. Put them behind an Aegis line and they get a cover save on top of that. AV13 with a 4 plus cover save is pretty durable. Autocannons and lascannons are all 48 inches.

Have a basic naked chaos lord with a mass of basic cultists manning an icarus lascannon behind aegis line. Lord is BS5, so your lascannon shots will usually hit. If he needs to fight, he has a bunch of cultists with 3 attacks on the charge to help him fight.

Now put your 10 man csm in Rhinos and equip them with havoc launchers. Give your 10 man csm an autocannon. So, now the Rhino and the squad are both shooting something at 48 inches. Its AV 11, but its still a threat. And once you have shot him up, such a squad in a Rhino can go up and capture objectives.

If you are playing gunline, then bring 1 or 2 helldrakes, because, now you expect him to come to you, which makes for nice targets to vector strike and baleflame in the midfield.

If you want even more armor saturation. Then bring another 3 more hellbrutes. Give them reaper autocannons and power fist. They can help to counter charge anything that gets close, and in the meantime, they also help shoot range. The reaper autocannon can even help shoot air in the meantime.

So, you now have an Aegis line with icarus lascannon, 3 predator tanks (lascannon autocannon), 3 hellbrutes (reaper autocannon), 4 to 5 Rhinos (havoc lauchers, squad with autocannon). Plus maybe 1 helldrake in reserve waiting to fly in and bbq stuff.

That's quite a lot of long range fire power, some counter charge, and a lot of troops in rhino for turn 5 objective capture as well. Anytime you need, you can pop out a mass of bodies from your rhinos and put out a ton of rapid fire dakka if the enemy gets near. So there, you now have a gun line army lol.

If you really want to make it even more gunline, you need to add on allies. Cos that opens 1 more heavy support slot. Example, if you ally IG, now you get to add a Leman Russ Tank so you have 4 heavy tanks now. Just treat the IG as traitor guard.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Predator tanks are not too bad for a more gun line style CSM army. They are AV13. Put them behind an Aegis line and they get a cover save on top of that. AV13 with a 4 plus cover save is pretty durable. Autocannons and lascannons are all 48 inches.

Have a basic naked chaos lord with a mass of basic cultists manning an icarus lascannon behind aegis line. Lord is BS5, so your lascannon shots will usually hit. If he needs to fight, he has a bunch of cultists with 3 attacks on the charge to help him fight.

Now put your 10 man csm in Rhinos and equip them with havoc launchers. Give your 10 man csm an autocannon. So, now the Rhino and the squad are both shooting something at 48 inches. Its AV 11, but its still a threat. And once you have shot him up, such a squad in a Rhino can go up and capture objectives.

If you are playing gunline, then bring 1 or 2 helldrakes, because, now you expect him to come to you, which makes for nice targets to vector strike and baleflame in the midfield.

If you want even more armor saturation. Then bring another 3 more hellbrutes. Give them reaper autocannons and power fist. They can help to counter charge anything that gets close, and in the meantime, they also help shoot range. The reaper autocannon can even help shoot air in the meantime.

So, you now have an Aegis line with icarus lascannon, 3 predator tanks (lascannon autocannon), 3 hellbrutes (reaper autocannon), say 5 Rhinos (havoc lauchers, squad with autocannon). Plus maybe 1 helldrake in reserve waiting to fly in and bbq stuff.

That's quite a lot of long range fire power, some counter charge, and a lot of troops in rhino for turn 5 objective capture as well. Anytime you need, you can pop out a mass of bodies from your rhinos and put out a ton of rapid fire dakka if the enemy gets near. So there, you now have a gun line army lol.

If you really want to make it even more gunline, you need to add on allies. Cos that opens 1 more heavy support slot. Example, if you ally IG, now you get to add a Leman Russ Tank so you have 4 heavy tanks now. Just treat the IG as traitor guard.

How do you feel about noise marines? I've thought about a mass of marines and trying to just swamp with bodies. But, I just don't know what I like about this codex lol I'm thinking about taking lucius but I just don't know what I want D=

Sample pure chaos gunline list.

1 Aegis defense line with icarus lascannon - 85

1 chaos lord - 65

3 autocannon predators w lascannon sponsons - 345

1 Helldrake - 170

3 Hellbrutes with reaper autocannon/ power fist - 315

1 cultist squad (18 men) - 82

10 CSM with autocannon - 150

10 CSM with autocannon in Rhino (havoc Launcher) - 197
10 CSM with autocannon in Rhino (havoc Launcher) - 197
10 CSM with autocannon in Rhino (havoc Launcher) - 197
10 CSM with autocannon in Rhino (havoc Launcher) - 197

Total - 2000 points.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Sample pure chaos gunline list.

1 Aegis defense line with icarus lascannon - 85

1 chaos lord - 65

3 autocannon predators w lascannon sponsons - 345

1 Helldrake - 170

3 Hellbrutes with reaper autocannon/ power fist - 315

1 cultist squad (18 men) - 82

10 CSM with autocannon - 150

10 CSM with autocannon in Rhino (havoc Launcher) - 197
10 CSM with autocannon in Rhino (havoc Launcher) - 197
10 CSM with autocannon in Rhino (havoc Launcher) - 197
10 CSM with autocannon in Rhino (havoc Launcher) - 197

Total - 2000 points.

Hmm, are the belbrutes just stationary and basically fire platforms? That's so many bodies...I like! Would you put in a second heldrake? What kind of list would I see 2 heldrakes in? Is there a sample "chaos undivided" list I could nitpick from?

So, each turn, you can shoot

7 str 9 Ap2 shots
22 Str 7 AP4 shots
4 Str 5 twin linked large blasts (havoc launchers)

plus your helldrake with his bale flamer and vector strike.

And for closer ranges, you have 50 CSM with bolters and 3 hellbrutes who can power fist people in the face!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The hellbrutes are there to add more armor saturation, provide a counter charge capability, and provide anti air support in a pinch as well because their reaper autocannons are twin linked.

I know some people don't like hell brutes, but it fits this list, and if you keep them behind the aegis line or in cover, they should be able to survive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This list has so much shooting that even if you lose, you will give as good as you get, so you will do a considerable amount of damage to your opponent as well.

You have 3 AV13, 3 AV12, and 4 AV11, all possibly in cover or behind an aegis line. I don'r think there are a lot of lists out there that can take out 10 vehicles in cover within 1 turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you want 2 helldrakes, then you have to have 1 less Rhino with csm squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Word of advice though. If you face an army with drop pods, then make sure you deploy your CSM outside the vehicles and bubble wrap them! Make sure nothing can get to within 6 inches of your vehicles, and make sure their rear is not exposed!

Otherwise, 2 drop pods down, 4 sternguard units come out = 4 dead vehicles...

 Gharron wrote:

 Zmanzeta wrote:
As a Ifellow ron Warrior player like you, I have to say this list doesn't remind me so much to a Iron Warrior army except for the warpsmith and the forgefiends (but I think there are better options too).

IMHO, a good way to improve your list is that one:

- Make smaller troops units, 10 men squads are the best option and will be good you put some extra large range weapons in your army. Also, isn't necessary you pay the vengeance icon and at same time the VOTLW. After testing so much the regular chaos space marines, I think only with VOTLW is enough.

- Same goes for biker units (but I don't see bikers in a IW army...), it's better you keep them smaller and just with VOTLW. 5 men squads well used will hurt your enemies so much.

- Could be nice to give to the aspiring champions a force sword and melta bomb, specially if you are paying for VOTLW. Melta bomb could be specually usefull in the biker aspiring champion.

- Maybe you didn't think about them, but, how about to use some chaos dreadnoughts (AKA hellbrute) as supports? I think they can help you in many situations and you can still repair them!

Well, as I said before, all what I said is only my opinion. Just check is something of what I said could be useful for your game's style or not.

Regards brother.

What do you feel like is an iron warriors list? I know that bikes aren't a huge part of the iron warriors and the warpsmith and forgefiends are iron warriors but there's not much else in our codex that isn't going to take the same slot over and over. Oblits vindis forgefiends are all heavies...I know that we use a lot of cultists for "fodder" which I thought about doing like when they used them to check the range on the enemies weapons' but I just couldn't really come up with a fluffy competitive iron warriors list so I took what I could =[

Do you guys think putting in some noise marines with a cheap lord would make this better? I just don't really know what to do with this list to make it better. If I do cut the marine units down I could go to 4 ten man squads and have 4 plasma guns but I end up with the same number right? Such a confused chaos player I am =[

Well, as I commented before, a good option is you use some dreadnoughts as a support. They are a good option if you are looking for a full vehicle list and you will see they aren't a bad option (specially now because they are more controllable). Another option is you put 3 men chaos terminators squads and buy to then a Land rider as assigned vehicle... isn't a bad idea too and you can use it as a mobile wall meanwhile your bikes are behind it (for example).

It's true one of the bad points in chaos list is you have the best army's options in heavy support slots so you allways have to be looking for a different way of tactics. Eldenfirefly posted a very nice list and you can use it as a example to try to build your own lists.

Regards brother.

I think it would be good if you removed one of the forgefiends, and replace it with a possessed vindicator, its an anti Horde, elites, tank everything for a suprisingly low points cost. the forgefiends will be able to tak out any light tanks, the heldrakes any marines, the marines any elites and infantry, but your list has nothing for Anti AV14, which the vindicator can do quite nicely.

It also spares the points to split the marines into 4x 10 marines all wih dual plasmas and all that stuff.
Even then you'll probably have the points for ectoplasm cannons on the remaining forgefiends and maybe even cannon fodd- i mean a body gaurd for the warpsmith.

TheChaosGuy wrote:
I think it would be good if you removed one of the forgefiends, and replace it with a possessed vindicator, its an anti Horde, elites, tank everything for a suprisingly low points cost. the forgefiends will be able to tak out any light tanks, the heldrakes any marines, the marines any elites and infantry, but your list has nothing for Anti AV14, which the vindicator can do quite nicely.

It also spares the points to split the marines into 4x 10 marines all wih dual plasmas and all that stuff.
Even then you'll probably have the points for ectoplasm cannons on the remaining forgefiends and maybe even cannon fodd- i mean a body gaurd for the warpsmith.

This is EXACTLY the next list I worked on lol giving the warpsmith the cultists bodyguard giving him a ton of extra wounds ANOTHER scoring unit. The vindi is also AMAZING as well, I toyed with three of those instead of the forgefiends or 2 forgefiends and 1 vindi or 2 vindis and 1 forgefiend...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zmanzeta wrote:

 Gharron wrote:

 Zmanzeta wrote:
As a Ifellow ron Warrior player like you, I have to say this list doesn't remind me so much to a Iron Warrior army except for the warpsmith and the forgefiends (but I think there are better options too).

IMHO, a good way to improve your list is that one:

- Make smaller troops units, 10 men squads are the best option and will be good you put some extra large range weapons in your army. Also, isn't necessary you pay the vengeance icon and at same time the VOTLW. After testing so much the regular chaos space marines, I think only with VOTLW is enough.

- Same goes for biker units (but I don't see bikers in a IW army...), it's better you keep them smaller and just with VOTLW. 5 men squads well used will hurt your enemies so much.

- Could be nice to give to the aspiring champions a force sword and melta bomb, specially if you are paying for VOTLW. Melta bomb could be specually usefull in the biker aspiring champion.

- Maybe you didn't think about them, but, how about to use some chaos dreadnoughts (AKA hellbrute) as supports? I think they can help you in many situations and you can still repair them!

Well, as I said before, all what I said is only my opinion. Just check is something of what I said could be useful for your game's style or not.

Regards brother.

What do you feel like is an iron warriors list? I know that bikes aren't a huge part of the iron warriors and the warpsmith and forgefiends are iron warriors but there's not much else in our codex that isn't going to take the same slot over and over. Oblits vindis forgefiends are all heavies...I know that we use a lot of cultists for "fodder" which I thought about doing like when they used them to check the range on the enemies weapons' but I just couldn't really come up with a fluffy competitive iron warriors list so I took what I could =[

Do you guys think putting in some noise marines with a cheap lord would make this better? I just don't really know what to do with this list to make it better. If I do cut the marine units down I could go to 4 ten man squads and have 4 plasma guns but I end up with the same number right? Such a confused chaos player I am =[

Well, as I commented before, a good option is you use some dreadnoughts as a support. They are a good option if you are looking for a full vehicle list and you will see they aren't a bad option (specially now because they are more controllable). Another option is you put 3 men chaos terminators squads and buy to then a Land rider as assigned vehicle... isn't a bad idea too and you can use it as a mobile wall meanwhile your bikes are behind it (for example).

It's true one of the bad points in chaos list is you have the best army's options in heavy support slots so you allways have to be looking for a different way of tactics. Eldenfirefly posted a very nice list and you can use it as a example to try to build your own lists.

Regards brother.

I don't mind the idea of dreads, just everything I read makes them sound like the worst thing to be put on the table =/
I want to go with a bit more close combat unit but after my green tide orks last year and a couple of games this year with CCW and bolt pistols on my marines I learned shooting is the only thing you can count on to get things done now ='[

I don't mind the idea of dreads, just everything I read makes them sound like the worst thing to be put on the table =/
I want to go with a bit more close combat unit but after my green tide orks last year and a couple of games this year with CCW and bolt pistols on my marines I learned shooting is the only thing you can count on to get things done now ='[

Well, I usually use then as supporters and I have to say they usually do their job very well. It's true sometimes they become crazy and then you have to remake your plans but the most common is they do what they have to do. I suppose that depends of your gaming style and if you are used to play with them (in my case, I love chaos dreadnoughts!).

About the close combat, IMHO you can't ignore it and it's good you keep in mind that factor. I know shooting style is the most common but in late game is so common you have many close combat rounds and they are important to win the match, and when that happens, you will remember the power sword you could buy for your aspiring champion but you skipped because you prefered another big shooting gun

Regards.