Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The riptide is listed as a Monstrous Creature.
The joined drones are Jump Infantry.
When mixed, does the unit now become "Jump infantry" or is it still "monstrous creature"?
I ask because, i've recently seen a list with 3 Riptides, joined by 3 characters, based on the unite type being a majority "jump infantry".

The Riptide is a Jet-Monstrous creature, the Drones and commanders are Jet-Infantry, but it's all irrelevant as they do not need to be the same type to join. There is no "majority unit type", models move individually (retaining coherency unless the IC is leaving). A bike-mounted character can join infantry and such-like.

There is no rule against joining monstrous creatures, the reason most people can't join their IC to their monsters is because there is a rule against joining units that always consist of a single model, which is what most monster's units are.
The only monsters that are an exception to this and therefore joinable are the carnifex and the riptide, who come in units of 1-3 models.

It's allowed, I just expect a future FAQ to disallow it.

If it was against the rules to join monsters it would'a been FAQd by now, keep in mind tyranids have been able to do it ever since this edition started.

 hcordes wrote:
When mixed, does the unit now become "Jump infantry" or is it still "monstrous creature"?

The unit doesn't have a singular type as a result of the mix, so you'd have to go by individual models. I can't think of anything that requires you to *target* a specific unit type, so I would think anything that hits the unit that's type-dependent would simply not apply to those models not covered. Jaws of the World Wolf and Dangerous Terrain are the only ones I can think of right now.

 HoverBoy wrote:
If it was against the rules to join monsters it would'a been FAQd by now, keep in mind tyranids have been able to do it ever since this edition started.

In fact since their release in 5th, as it had the exact same restriciton on ICs joining units as 6th does.

I would be amazed, truly, if they suddenly decided you could not join them.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
It's allowed, I just expect a future FAQ to disallow it.

I wouldnt bank on that. Many people though the duel single weapon crisis suits would corrected via a FAQ and it wasnt, instead it was clarified . I think they had this tactic in mind when the were developing the Riptide and Codex. I dont expect it to change any time soon.

 Messy0 wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
It's allowed, I just expect a future FAQ to disallow it.

I wouldnt bank on that. Many people though the duel single weapon crisis suits would corrected via a FAQ and it wasnt, instead it was clarified . I think they had this tactic in mind when the were developing the Riptide and Codex. I dont expect it to change any time soon.

the intent of the drone special rules is for the presence of drones to be a nonissue when joining or leaving units. If the drones were never part of a riptide unit it would always be a single unit model and never be able to be joined. RAI is pretty clear and GW has been backing RAI over RAW almost everytime lately.

I don't see any reason why they can't join. Just expect dangerous terrain checks for anything that isn't the riptide if you jump into cover

Under the independent character special rules (pg.39 mini rule)
"They cannot, however, join vehicle squadrons, or units that always consist of a single model (such as most vehicles and Monstrous Creatures).."
on the Riptide profile (pg 100 of Tau codex) it lists unit composition as 1 riptide shas'vre
through out the Tau Codex, drones are war-gear options.
even taking the "war-gear option" of drones, i would still consider the unit to be the ONE riptide. Which would be consistent with the other vehicles that contain drones.
I believe in RAI before RAW,
"Well the book doesn't say i CANT do this"
Worst explanation ever.

Codex Tau Empire wrote:Drones taken as upgrades for a unit act as additional squad members in all regards... (Pg.33)

 hcordes wrote:
Under the independent character special rules (pg.39 mini rule)
"They cannot, however, join vehicle squadrons, or units that always consist of a single model (such as most vehicles and Monstrous Creatures).."
on the Riptide profile (pg 100 of Tau codex) it lists unit composition as 1 riptide shas'vre
through out the Tau Codex, drones are war-gear options.
even taking the "war-gear option" of drones, i would still consider the unit to be the ONE riptide. Which would be consistent with the other vehicles that contain drones.
I believe in RAI before RAW,
"Well the book doesn't say i CANT do this"
Worst explanation ever.

The Codex also says in the drones section that Drones taken as upgrades for a unit act as additional squad members in all regards.

So how many models can be in a Riptide squad? 3. 1 Riptide and 2 drones. Is the unit is always one model? No. So it can be joined by an IC.

EDIT; damn, beaten to the punch.

Really Drones are not models now?

Because I am pretty sure that a Riptide with 2 shielded missile drones is a unit of 3 models.

Also if the shielded missile drones are "wargear" and not models in the unit because they are purchased as options, then Broadsides and crisis suits cannot have ICs join them either because the additional members are listed in the Options in exactly the same manner as the shielded missile drones.

No RAW it is clearly allowed. I don't think anyone is arguing against that. Is that RAI by GW, that is the only concern.

Drones are drones. I hadn't seen anything in the Tau Codex that says that Drones taken as upgrades for a non-Drone unit count as wargear. If the Drones are wargear or not is a moot point anyways. As a Space Wolf player, Fenrisian Wolves taken as Wargear still are treated as their own unit in in every way except two: IC's can join other units as if they were alone (the wolves just have to stay within 2" of the IC) and Lone Wolves are allowed to take them despite the Pack of One special rule not allowing ICs to join up with the Lone Wolves. In combat in 5th edition they were treated as their own unit for allocating attacks...

In case anyone doubts that, it was on the old Space Wolf FAQ, Page 2 Question 6. That became moot in 6th edition with some of the changes to the Assault Phase so it looks like they removed the question, and I think they took down the 5th edition FAQ. Assault was the only phase where it mattered if they were a separate unit, outside the IC joining another unit and the Lone Wolves, so it was the only place they clarified.

Anyways, so yes, Riptides can be joined by ICs, possibly only if they take one or more Drones, but likely all the time. The Unit Composition just lists the unit's starting composition. After all, on the next page Pathfinders are listed as having a composition of 4 pathfinders only but you can take more, so obviously the unit composition can change. And Page 39 of the BRB only says that ICs can't join units that always consist of one model.

If GW doesn't want ICs joining a Riptide, they will have to FAQ it.

cowmonaut wrote:

If GW doesn't want ICs joining a Riptide, they will have to FAQ it.

+1

After more discussions and rule book reading and input from you nice folks.
I have to (though begrudgingly ) accept that IC joining the riptide is a viable and legal, no matter how i feel about it.
I guess the next questions is, whats a legit way of beating a list with three riptides, three IC (allied Eldar)? Using a Sixth Ed codex.
This was kinda how the list looked, and no i did not actually read the list.

3 riptides
shadowsun
comander in battle suit
2 6man firewarrior teams

allied
eldrad
5 direavengers

Flying bakery.

 HoverBoy wrote:
Flying bakery.

I don't follow.
Explanation?

Necron flyer spam, riptides lack great AA weapons, and with all his points sunk into them he's unlikely to have many broadsides.

Lots of flying things that apply lots of heat to other things on the ground...

Killing the troops, and winning an objectives game.

Yep focus fire 1 unit at a time; Troops units until dead or running then Riptide+IC units.

6 units, 6 turns, and you have a whole army to devote to the eliminating of each unit in each turn.