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It is said that the necrons are everywhere, in deep underground tombs. And according to the old codex and hinted at in the new one the necrons have one of the largest tombs ever... and it is being plunder the the techpriests of Mars for secret technologies. Could this awaken the tomb, and call Sautekh the Silent King and Imotekh the Stormlord to destroy those who squat on their great civilisations? Please respond with your views.

 Sautekh_The_Silent_King wrote:
It is said that the necrons are everywhere, in deep underground tombs. And according to the old codex and hinted at in the new one the necrons have one of the largest tombs ever... and it is being plunder the the techpriests of Mars for secret technologies. Could this awaken the tomb, and call Sautekh the Silent King and Imotekh the Stormlord to destroy those who squat on their great civilisations? Please respond with your views.

If they felt like it, the Necrons could turn every single star in the Galaxy into a supernova, using the Celestial Orrery. So...yeah.

Assuming they ever felt like it, they could finish the C'Tan's plan to finish the pylons and seal the Immaterium off forever, destroying the IoM in the process.

Barring those two methods, assuming enough of them wake up, yes, I'd say they can wreck the IoM even in the old fashioned way, though that's pure speculation on my part.

Newcrons are a rather divided race; the different dyansties, and even lords and overlords all believe they have the right to rule the galaxy.

United they'd likely cause one heck of a big problem, but they're rather pre-occupied in vying for power between themselves, which bleeds them of their strength. There's only so many truly intelligent necrons out there, most of them are basically mindless drones with some combat capacity, and every power struggles which results in the destruction of another lord or overlord is whittling away their capacity to really threaten other races.

There's also some ambiguity in their current fluff regarding their space capacity. In the old fluff, both in the old 'dex and in BFG, the Necrons had bloody scarey ships which could destroy almost anything they came across, only challenged when extremely outnumbered. In the current fluff, a Black Templar fleet blasted Imhotek's fleet without too much trouble, and marine fleets are truly insignificant next to the Imperial Navy.

So I'd rate the 'crons as a noteworthy potential threat, but will only challenge the hegemony of the Imperium of Man, or the power of any other major race, if they were to unify.

The Void Dragon, however, remains a wildcard. My impression is he wasn't shattered by the Necrons like the other c'tan, and therefore, theoretically, if he were to wake up, he could assert his power over the divided Necrons, along with the Adeptus Mechanicus, and go eat some souls. But that's less a necron threat, more a potential c'tan threat.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
Newcrons are a rather divided race; the different dyansties, and even lords and overlords all believe they have the right to rule the galaxy.

United they'd likely cause one heck of a big problem, but they're rather pre-occupied in vying for power between themselves, which bleeds them of their strength. There's only so many truly intelligent necrons out there, most of them are basically mindless drones with some combat capacity, and every power struggles which results in the destruction of another lord or overlord is whittling away their capacity to really threaten other races.

There's also some ambiguity in their current fluff regarding their space capacity. In the old fluff, both in the old 'dex and in BFG, the Necrons had bloody scarey ships which could destroy almost anything they came across, only challenged when extremely outnumbered. In the current fluff, a Black Templar fleet blasted Imhotek's fleet without too much trouble, and marine fleets are truly insignificant next to the Imperial Navy.

So I'd rate the 'crons as a noteworthy potential threat, but will only challenge the hegemony of the Imperium of Man, or the power of any other major race, if they were to unify.

The Void Dragon, however, remains a wildcard. My impression is he wasn't shattered by the Necrons like the other c'tan, and therefore, theoretically, if he were to wake up, he could assert his power over the divided Necrons, along with the Adeptus Mechanicus, and go eat some souls. But that's less a necron threat, more a potential c'tan threat.

I agree. I think Orikan the Diviner used a weapon to take control of the dragon because of his power to take over the machine spirit. I thin he'll do that, the necrons will unify at the chance to defeat mankind and Orikan, his powers reinforced by the dragon will take over every single vehicle, titan and walked the imperium has.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
In the current fluff, a Black Templar fleet blasted Imhotek's fleet without too much trouble, and marine fleets are truly insignificant next to the Imperial Navy.

Actually, it was a surprise attack that had been planned by Helbrecht in return for Imotekh beating him like a redheaded stepchild. The entire attack meant 1 lost flagship and a few necron ships that were slow. Hardly "Imotekh's fleet".

Not to mention the Necrons have mecanophages (viruses) that can completely shut down entire planetary defenses.

Unless the the necron fluff is retconned again we have a bigger chance of the orks uniting than the necrons.

 Popenfresh wrote:
Unless the the necron fluff is retconned again we have a bigger chance of the orks uniting than the necrons.

That seems silly. When a common enemy was present (EG: The IoM) necrons have always banded together. A notable example is when Anrakyr tries to save a sleeping Tomb World from the Eldar of Alaitoc, and he sends word to several Tomb Worlds hoping at least one comes to help. He gets reinforcements from 3 completely different dynasties.

So why aren't they right now?

 Popenfresh wrote:
So why aren't they right now?

Because each dynasty has its own agenda, clearly, and because they only come together like that when it's -important- . Why would they leave behind their agendas which to them are the most important thing ever, in order to beat back an empire that they know is going to devour itself in a short while? They're immortal. Why the gak would they waste troops like that? The only ones actively taking the fight to the IoM at the moment are Imotekh and Anrakyr, and even they have their own agendas.

So seeing as they don't have a reason to unite I was right in stating it's extremely unlikely they'll ever be a unified race ever again.

 Sautekh_The_Silent_King wrote:
It is said that the necrons are everywhere, in deep underground tombs. And according to the old codex and hinted at in the new one the necrons have one of the largest tombs ever... and it is being plunder the the techpriests of Mars for secret technologies. Could this awaken the tomb, and call Sautekh the Silent King and Imotekh the Stormlord to destroy those who squat on their great civilisations? Please respond with your views.

Problem is that they are rather few, far between and often completely bonkers. They are like the Tau nuisance nothing more. just a shadow like a man having had a heavy stroke. They present almost no danger.

 Popenfresh wrote:
So seeing as they don't have a reason to unite I was right in stating it's extremely unlikely they'll ever be a unified race ever again.

Not really, no. It just shows that you haven't touched on much of the new fluff due to Ward hate. Your example of Orks uniting before Necrons do is both extreme and unrealistic. The 2 most powerful Necron Overlords have "reuniting the necron race" as their ultimate agenda, and they've already gathered up impressive fleets, and have garnered support from various Tomb Worlds (whether via their own choosing or under duress). The gentlemanly thing to do would be to concede that you were in error due to misinformation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 Sautekh_The_Silent_King wrote:
It is said that the necrons are everywhere, in deep underground tombs. And according to the old codex and hinted at in the new one the necrons have one of the largest tombs ever... and it is being plunder the the techpriests of Mars for secret technologies. Could this awaken the tomb, and call Sautekh the Silent King and Imotekh the Stormlord to destroy those who squat on their great civilisations? Please respond with your views.

Problem is that they are rather few, far between and often completely bonkers. They are like the Tau nuisance nothing more. just a shadow like a man having had a heavy stroke. They present almost no danger.

Well...I'd say more than a nuisance, but indeed at the moment they're lacking the necessary punch to take out the IoM. In time though, things would be extremely different. The highly advanced militaristic genius of their leaders, the most advanced technology in the Universe, and precise blows would most likely become exponentially more dangerous to the IoM than they are now, but yeah, for the time being, they're happy being in the shadows, slowly rebuilding their empire

Also don't forget that the Silent King, ie the ultimate ruler of all Necrons, is off on some personal quest or something. So if he returns to unite all Necrons etc etc. But that would be advancing the story and so wont happen

They are only a little bit more of a threat than the Tau, and that's just me liking the Necrons better than them. I mean I'm at least willing to consider reading anything about the Necrons, the Tau on the other hand...

The insanity of their leaders undermines the military genius of them. It's bound to when they go go nuts and such. The disadvantage of age.

BlackSanguinor wrote:
Also don't forget that the Silent King, ie the ultimate ruler of all Necrons, is off on some personal quest or something. So if he returns to unite all Necrons etc etc. But that would be advancing the story and so wont happen

Yeah, cause they're going to bow down to the guy who single handedly imprisoned and doomed their entire race.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Beaviz81 wrote:
They are only a little bit more of a threat than the Tau, and that's just me liking the Necrons better than them. I mean I'm at least willing to consider reading anything about the Necrons, the Tau on the other hand...

The insanity of their leaders undermines the military genius of them. It's bound to when they go go nuts and such. The disadvantage of age.

Well I can't think of any insane leaders other than Zandrekh and the Carrion Lord dude, and Zandrekh's impeccable military record shows that his madness has done little to keep him from bringing IoM planets to their knees in record time.

Also the Carion Lord, or whatever he is, the 'ruler' of the flayed ones

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Also the Carion Lord, or whatever he is, the 'ruler' of the flayed ones

I actually meant him, not Destroyer Lord, thx, will edit post

 Mavlun wrote:

 Popenfresh wrote:
So seeing as they don't have a reason to unite I was right in stating it's extremely unlikely they'll ever be a unified race ever again.

Not really, no. It just shows that you haven't touched on much of the new fluff due to Ward hate. Your example of Orks uniting before Necrons do is both extreme and unrealistic. The 2 most powerful Necron Overlords have "reuniting the necron race" as their ultimate agenda, and they've already gathered up impressive fleets, and have garnered support from various Tomb Worlds (whether via their own choosing or under duress). The gentlemanly thing to do would be to concede that you were in error due to misinformation.

I don't know what you understand under a unified race but it would seem that if you have two lords, each wanting to be the sole ruler of all necrons, you have a pretty darn divided race by default.

It's also not very gentlemanly to prematurely proclaim you've won the argument and start telling the other person what he should or shouldn't do, no need to start getting demeaning, especially since I never so much as made one jab at you personally.

Also, please don't twist my words, I hate Ward's fluff, I don't even know the guy so hating him personally is plain stupid.

 Popenfresh wrote:

 Mavlun wrote:

 Popenfresh wrote:
So seeing as they don't have a reason to unite I was right in stating it's extremely unlikely they'll ever be a unified race ever again.

Not really, no. It just shows that you haven't touched on much of the new fluff due to Ward hate. Your example of Orks uniting before Necrons do is both extreme and unrealistic. The 2 most powerful Necron Overlords have "reuniting the necron race" as their ultimate agenda, and they've already gathered up impressive fleets, and have garnered support from various Tomb Worlds (whether via their own choosing or under duress). The gentlemanly thing to do would be to concede that you were in error due to misinformation.

I don't know what you understand under a unified race but it would seem that if you have two lords, each wanting to be the sole ruler of all necrons, you have a pretty darn divided race by default.

It's also not very gentlemanly to prematurely proclaim you've won the argument and start telling the other person what he should or shouldn't do, no need to start getting demeaning, especially since I never so much as made one jab at you personally.

Also, please don't twist my words, I hate Ward's fluff, I don't even know the guy so hating him personally is plain stupid.

Ok, sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way, I apologize for coming off as "on a high horse" .

I'm afraid you're wrong once more however. Anrakyr wants a unified necron race, Imotekh wants to conquer everything and have the necron race unified and ruling everything. Their agendas aren't opposite, there's no reason for them to fight. In fact, Imotekh gave a sign of good will by aiding Anrakyr with forces from Mandragora, his Crownworld when he required assistance.

They have essentially the same agenda, but go about it in different ways. Not completely different, but not exactly tangent. While Imotekh wants the Sautekh dynasty to rule over a unified necron race that would rule above all, Anrakyr simply wants the unified necron race, so...whatever.

Well Anrakyr and Imotekh might be compatible but will all those other lords just bend over and let those two smash their own personal goals of conquest?


Saying they're as divided as the orks was hyperbolic yes, but I can see no way how they'd ever unite in the current setting especially since you yourself said there's nothing they consider a serious threat at this moment.

 Popenfresh wrote:
Well Anrakyr and Imotekh might be compatible but will all those other lords just bend over and let those two smash their own personal goals of conquest?


Saying they're as divided as the orks was hyperbolic yes, but I can see no way how they'd ever unite in the current setting especially since you yourself said there's nothing they consider a serious threat at this moment.

Well...they HAVE united, as I mentioned in previous examples, so my point is that they -could- and -would-. As for the other lords, they're divided. The stronger dynasties go undisturbed, but in a bind, most are not -THAT- extremist. As for the ones Anrakyr and Imotekh go to, they're divided.

A fun piece of fluff mentions how Anrakyr goes to recently awoken Tomb Worlds. He offers them assistance and asks them for forces and to join him. Some view him as the messiah of the Necrons (the ones that are willing to join), others as a brigand (those that don't want to, but are coerced regardless).

Either way, it's efficient and his power is increasing

I'm sorry but 3 tombwords is hardly uniting them as a race, no Ork has united as many warbands as Ghazghkull but that doesn't mean they're one step closer to unity. Imotekh is the Big Cheese at the moment with like what, 80 worlds? And even he has less that 0,01% of all tombworlds under his controle. Plus, most worlds haven't even awoken so there's an ton of potentially more powerful and ambitious rivals out there.

On top of that there's great deal internal strife between individual dynasties as well seeing as everyone wants to shake up the hierarchical pyramid in their favor.

 Popenfresh wrote:
I'm sorry but 3 tombwords is hardly uniting them as a race, no Ork has united as many warbands as Ghazghkull but that doesn't mean they're one step closer to unity. Imotekh is the Big Cheese at the moment with like what, 80 worlds? And even he has less that 0,01% of all tombworlds under his controle. Plus, most worlds haven't even awoken so there's an ton of potentially more powerful and ambitious rivals out there.

On top of that there's great deal internal strife between individual dynasties as well seeing as everyone wants to shake up the hierarchical pyramid in their favor.

Well now, then the argument changes from "they'd NEVER be able to unite", to "it'll be long before they eventually unite". And that's a completely different argument right there. Whether it'll be Anrakyr, Imotekh, Szeras, or someone else, the Necron don't seem to ever be in active battle with each other, and would rather grudgingly succeed to a "more powerful" dynasty than go into open conflict. It's even gone into some detail that most dynasties follow very strict codes of honor in battle and rules of engagement. I think you may have a very different view of them, as some sort of mad scheming dynasties, always trying to get to number 1 at whatever cost. The general trend seems to be to band together, at least for now, until they regain their strength.

As for whether they -could- work as one big group, yeah, I'm sure they could. There's internal strife between individual offices in the various Ordos and hierarchies of Terra as well, and the IoM still functions (for the most part) as one. Even within one single organization you've got IG, Navy, Titans, Astartes with a thousand chapters, Sororitas, the Ordos with their own various inside hierarchies, and about a bajillion different worlds and factions, each of which with its own personal agenda, but it still works together as a single entity.

The dynasties are very much like that, with specialized tech-savvy dynasties (similar to the Mechanicum), militaristic dynasties, and just your general run-of-the-mill ones.

 Popenfresh wrote:
I'm sorry but 3 tombwords is hardly uniting them as a race

I think you are now confusing Anrakyr and his combined dynasties with the canoptek world, those controlled by a rouge tomb world AI.

Also, Corpse lord, not Carrion lord.
I was close

Dunno, reading the first half of the codex it's says the necrontyr all too quickly fell into bitter wars of secession. You might have case studies where they band together but their own history books are rife with internal conflict.

Also the IoM has one thing that the Necrons sorely lack, a unifying religion

 Popenfresh wrote:
Dunno, reading the first half of the codex it's says the necrontyr all too quickly fell into bitter wars of secession. You might have case studies where they band together but their own history books are rife with internal conflict.

Also the IoM has one thing that the Necrons sorely lack, a unifying religion

Or just unification. The Necrons are spread between 100+ warring lords who hate eachother. That has been established from day one.

 Popenfresh wrote:
Dunno, reading the first half of the codex it's says the necrontyr all too quickly fell into bitter wars of secession. You might have case studies where they band together but their own history books are rife with internal conflict.

Also the IoM has one thing that the Necrons sorely lack, a unifying religion

Well we're talking about the Necron here, not the Necrontyr. And what they have is a hunger to reconstruct the dynasties. And assuming that is done, just as they had a Triarch coordinating the entire Necrontyr race before, regardless of inter-dynasty issues, they can have one again, with whatever final purpose they deem necessary (most likely the reversal of bio-transferrence).

as most necrons are near-mindless, religion isn't really needed
And those who can understand the concept wouldn't after the C'Tan incident... you know appearing as gods then making the necrons what the are now and all that.

Also, the wars of Secession was before the War in Heaven, the new reason for the War of Heaven was too unite the Necrons.

Also, with the Silent King gone and no true successor, many overlords are trying to unite the dynasties, mainly through conquering others or treaties.

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 Popenfresh wrote:
Dunno, reading the first half of the codex it's says the necrontyr all too quickly fell into bitter wars of secession. You might have case studies where they band together but their own history books are rife with internal conflict.

Also the IoM has one thing that the Necrons sorely lack, a unifying religion

Or just unification. The Necrons are spread between 100+ warring lords who hate eachother. That has been established from day one.

Mmm not really. They may bicker and fight, but they do unite. Even when they were at their very worst, all of the dynasties still had a very clear hierarchy and rulership, with the entire Empire ruled by the Triarch.

 Mavlun wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 Popenfresh wrote:
Dunno, reading the first half of the codex it's says the necrontyr all too quickly fell into bitter wars of secession. You might have case studies where they band together but their own history books are rife with internal conflict.

Also the IoM has one thing that the Necrons sorely lack, a unifying religion

Or just unification. The Necrons are spread between 100+ warring lords who hate eachother. That has been established from day one.

Mmm not really. They may bicker and fight, but they do unite. Even when they were at their very worst, all of the dynasties still had a very clear hierarchy and rulership, with the entire Empire ruled by the Triarch.

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I may well be since I don't have the Newcron codex in front of me and I'm working off half remembered hearsay, but haven't the Necrons only ever really allied if they're:

1: Threatened by something 'stronger' then they are (Old Ones, potentially the Imperium)

2: When the Silent King used his command codes to force all the dynasties to work together as one cohesive empire under him.

Now, iirc, Silent King had the codes destroyed before he took his armada out beyond the edge of the galaxy. Meaning that the keys to recreate the longest lived Necron 'alliance' are probably beyond the grasp of anyone. So unless they're presented with a new, ultimate threat (either the Imperium starts hitting Tomb Worlds regularly or maybe the Nids if Silent King has his way) they're just going to keep bickering amongst each other. Which of course keeps their threat level lower then it might actually have been.