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i haven't got the horus heresy book and haven't pirated it.

so i have 2 questions, which will influence me on buyin gof the book.

1) if i want to use Space marine legion units in a normal 40k space marine or chaos marine lists can I? (with opponents permission ofc, standard forgeworld-40k rules)
2) Can legions list beused in normal 40k games easily? As in not overclassed and not having to bring to many special rules into the way the normal game works.

Dakka isn't a replacement for the rulebook and both of those questions are answered in that respective book.

Thats not a particular helpful response..
I do not consider Dakka a replacement for the rulebook itself. I am not stupid enough to think that.

this i the kind of question which would influence my purchase of the book and is a very minor rules point... :/. I do admit i left the second question rather wider than i should have and I have edited to clarify it

To answer your question:

Horus Heresy FAQ wrote:Q: Are the armies and units in the Horus Heresy books by Forge World meant to be used in
games against regular Codex armies, such as say Grey Knights or Orks?

A: While Forge World’s on-going range of Horus Heresy books and their game content are all
designed to use and be compatible with the Warhammer 40,000 rules, they have been fine-tuned and
focused on playing battles in the milieu of the Horus Heresy rather than in conjunction with the
Codexes representing warfare in the 41st Millennium, and this will remain the case.

Designer’s Note: This means that while you are, of course, free to have fun and play games against
your friends using any forces you like, and Horus Heresy forces will be broadly ‘a fair fight’ with
Codex forces of the same scale, certain rules anomalies and inconsistencies may be thrown up that
you have to deal with, although these should not seriously affect the game in most cases. (For
example, certain units, such as those with the Stubborn special rule are at a premium costing in
Horus Heresy armies over their regular Codex counterparts, owing to the results of play testing
within their own sphere.)

In terms of using Lords of War and the Primarchs, however, these are definitely not intended to be
used in standard Warhammer 40,000 games, but only in games where both sides use the Age of
Darkness Force Organisation chart, and the specific provisions within, and in games of 2,000 points
or greater.

Designer’s Note: So if, for example, you wanted to play a battle representing a narrative where the
Sons of Horus Legion fought Orks or Eldar during the Great Crusade, you could quite easily use
those xenos forces’ Warhammer 40,000 Codexes (possibly house-ruled to accommodate larger
squads) to proxy for their Heresy-era counterparts. In this case, however, both sides should be using
the Age of Darkness Force Organisation chart, with the army’s own Apocalypse level units and flyers
available as Lords of War entries following the guidelines found on page 184 of Betrayal.

rigeld2 wrote:
Dakka isn't a replacement for the rulebook and both of those questions are answered in that respective book.

Bad answer. Basically you will have to come to some agreement with your opponents. As far as tournies go you'll probably have to attend a national event.

It wasn't a bad answer. Both questions have answers clearly spelled out in the book (and the second has an answer with a minimum of searching the Internet).

Sorry if it bothered you, but that was a fine answer.

rigeld2 wrote:
It wasn't a bad answer. Both questions have answers clearly spelled out in the book (and the second has an answer with a minimum of searching the Internet).

Sorry if it bothered you, but that was a fine answer.

The answer you gave was bad, because he's asking these questions before purchase and he obviously wants to use them in this fashion.
It's more of an assurance thing, the book is £70(!!!!) and it would be dumb to drop that much cash only to find out you can't use the units it contains in the way he wants to.

I've played a Legion force with my Orks.
Dear lord is it unbalanced. Fine for friendlies, as long as you realise that in true narrative style the marines will wipe the floor with you.
The list really is meant for Marine on Marine combat, and is great fun if played as such.

 RunningWithScissors49 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
It wasn't a bad answer. Both questions have answers clearly spelled out in the book (and the second has an answer with a minimum of searching the Internet).

Sorry if it bothered you, but that was a fine answer.

The answer you gave was bad, because he's asking these questions before purchase and he obviously wants to use them in this fashion.
It's more of an assurance thing, the book is £70(!!!!) and it would be dumb to drop that much cash only to find out you can't use the units it contains in the way he wants to.

^ This.

It was an honest question and you could spent a bit more time with your reply.

Actually, he posted looking to get rules for a book he does not have. This is against Dakka policy. The 40K You Make Da Call forum is for discussing unclear rules.

Yakface says it best:

yakface wrote:The forum is not intended to be a replacement for buying the rulebooks. It's here for discussing parts of the rules where you're unclear as to how they work, not for fishing for rules that can be found simply by opening the book.

It's how we avoid running afoul of GW's legal department.

(Yak's quote taken from here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/408450.page#3591838 )

So you're saying it is wrong to quote an FAQ?

No, more that it is wrong to ask questions that are obviously against the tenants.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
So you're saying it is wrong to quote an FAQ?

Do you see the word FAQ in my post at all?

Please do not misrepresent what I am saying, especially if you have not read my whole post.

If the question was posed in the correct forum (not YMDC), then Rig's response would have been bad.
However, since this was the wrong place to post the question, then it was warranted (albeit a bit pointed).

It is a reasonable question for the OP to ask...it was just in the wrong forum.

Happyjew's response, pointing the OP to the FAQ, was a good thing to do. It solved the question without violating the tenants, and helped the OP. (Helping people is the point of this forum, right?)

Yes helping people is the point. : )

Sigh. I'm glad we were able to spend so much effort saying "I'm not going to help" on such a minor rules question that doesn't violate the spirit of the forum rule.

 Sgt.Roadkill wrote:
1) if i want to use Space marine legion units in a normal 40k space marine or chaos marine lists can I? (with opponents permission ofc, standard forgeworld-40k rules)

No. The Heresy list is a complete army list, and using its units in a C:SM list would be like using Tyranid units in an Eldar list.

However, some units that are in the Heresy list have also been printed in other sources with rules that make them available to various marine armies.

2) Can legions list beused in normal 40k games easily? As in not overclassed and not having to bring to many special rules into the way the normal game works.

Yes and no. With one exception* it follows all the normal 40k rules and rules-wise there are no conflicts, you can play it just like any other army without having to worry about house rules. However, the list is not playtested or balanced for use in normal 40k so depending on how competitive the two players are you might find some balance problems and not enjoy the game. And since it is not specifically approved for normal 40k you and your opponent will need to agree in advance to play a special game (and let them read the book), don't just show up to a random pickup game and expect everyone to let you play.


*The Lords of War section for primarchs and superheavy tanks. If you are going to use them you need to arrange an appropriate list of similar units to add to the 40k player's options.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Actually, he posted looking to get rules for a book he does not have. This is against Dakka policy. The 40K You Make Da Call forum is for discussing unclear rules.

Though I'd agree that this is in the wrong sub-forum, I'd hardly say this is asking for rules in the book. He's asking if he can even use the units listed in this book before he drops a lot of money for it
But hey, I'm new around here, I don't really no how strict you guys are

From what I've seen the Legion list is a bit under powered compared to many standard codexs, with leadership being a big handicap. They don't have ATSKNF and due to the large squad sizes they aren't nearly as flexible. I see no reason to disallow the list.

 StrikeForceGames wrote:
From what I've seen the Legion list is a bit under powered compared to many standard codexs, with leadership being a big handicap. They don't have ATSKNF and due to the large squad sizes they aren't nearly as flexible. I see no reason to disallow the list.

20 dirt cheap Marines with attached Apothecary firing 80 Bolter shots is just horrible. They are far from under powered.
Great fun with a Legion-on-Legion game though.

 Sgt.Roadkill wrote:
Thats not a particular helpful response..

This, a thousand times this.

I'm sick to death of seeing this response.

Don't like rule questions? Don't answer them. But don't post this stupid gak.

 Dakkamite wrote:

 Sgt.Roadkill wrote:
Thats not a particular helpful response..

This, a thousand times this.

I'm sick to death of seeing this response.

Don't like rule questions? Don't answer them. But don't post this stupid gak.

It's a response that needs to be given sometimes. I'd hate to see GW's legal team close this site down (as they have with others) for posting too many rules. That's why this site cannot be a substitute for a Codex/Rulebook.

This is not one of those situations though.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
This is not one of those situations though.

Yes but it appears it's never one of those situations in your opinion.