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I'm starting necrons, but haven't had a game with them yet & am still building my list before I buy too many models.

Is it just me, or are wraiths an epic unit? Auto pass dangerous terrain, hammer of wrath, reduce initiative down to 1 with whips, s6, fearless, rending, 3+ inv., 3+ sv., and pretty cheep (I guess).

What do people think? How have they worked for you? Do they just get shot to death? Thoughts on squad sizes, tactics? What would happen if you bought more than one squad? etc.


Cheers!

h.

Yes, they are great. They do die to shooting, but they can weather a pretty amazing amount of it. Considering they're one of the few decent close combat units necrons possess that are also fearless, they're worth their weight in gold.

Go with at least one unit of wraiths, and more can't hurt.

A Full unit of Wraiths, with a Whipcoil or two sprinkled in, is a very good unit. Keep in mind they are vulnerable to ID and volume of fire.

Add in a Destroyer Lord, for a really killy unit, that will mulch through most everything.

 hamlet wrote:
I'm starting necrons, but haven't had a game with them yet & am still building my list before I buy too many models.

Is it just me, or are wraiths an epic unit? Auto pass dangerous terrain, hammer of wrath, reduce initiative down to 1 with whips, s6, fearless, rending, 3+ inv., 3+ sv., and pretty cheep (I guess).

What do people think? How have they worked for you? Do they just get shot to death? Thoughts on squad sizes, tactics? What would happen if you bought more than one squad? etc.


Cheers!

h.

Wraiths are still pretty much gods in CC. So the main counter to them is to make sure they don't get into close combat . Luckily wraiths have plenty of ways to help them get into close combat, being extremely fast, multi-wound, and having 3+ invulnerable saves are these ways. So they'll laugh at krak missiles and lascannons, but a big old volley of lasguns can fell them pretty quickly and of course a battle cannon can make them roll enough dice to make sure some of them get ID'd.

That being said, most models that can present that many shots at range don't tend to be the ones who have any hope at winning against wraiths in assault. They have enough attacks (at a pretty good WS to boot) to cut through mobs and rending lets them chop through brick units like TEQs and Monstrous creatures. I've seen some of them go through a Trygon like nothing.

They go like a warm knife through butter
They have worked great for me, butchering everything in their way.
For additional fun you should really attach a Destroyer Lord; PE(Everything!) is so perfect.

Most people field them in 6, with DLord attached.
And yes, they die to shooting.
But everything dies to shooting.
Wraiths have a 3++ and two wounds, so they die less fast than many other things.

One of, if not the best, CC unit in the game. Fast, cheap and durable.

I love using them to tie up units if not kill them out right, for instance they held of a large pack of space wolfs on the big wolves as well as their accompanied small wolves for three turns, or the GUO. But the bast part is when people realize the have a 3++ and they are like

They are excellent, truely jewels of the codex. They will almost always be priority #1 to an opponent, so try and deploy them on the flanks and work their way in lest you find them dead to volley fire.

Only problem ive had is i mainly play against large hordes or nids. My friend sees them and charges a group of boys at them and rips them to pieces. I've stopped using them just because of this.

crayz_d wrote:
Only problem ive had is i mainly play against large hordes or nids. My friend sees them and charges a group of boys at them and rips them to pieces. I've stopped using them just because of this.

how were the wraths getting steamrolled? 30 Boyz can get equally stomped by wraiths, since a full unit of wraiths puts out 24attacks, and with whom coils many of the Boyz would hit at I1. That's beside the fact that all of the wraiths will generally be able to fight, while a full unit of Boyz might have some that can't.

Meh, but Boyz also can shoot first, pack more attacks and have cheap bodies. Wraiths will often struggle against Boyz, or hordes for that matter.

Adding a D.Lord into Wraiths should be able to mulch through Boyz. There's no reason why those 30 Boyz shouldn't be down to about 18 by the time they even get to swing.

 azazel the cat wrote:
Adding a D.Lord into Wraiths should be able to mulch through Boyz. There's no reason why those 30 Boyz shouldn't be down to about 18 by the time they even get to swing.

Well, then we are talking 350+ points to 180....

Obviously the D.Lord + Wraiths will win. However, it isn't so clear cut if it's 60 Boyz. Each 30 man Shoota Squad averages 10 W in a shooting phase. Having played Necrons vs Orks, i'll side with the Boyz. Any unit that has lots of cheap models and brings a good bit of attacks will have success vs Wraiths. Wraiths do their very best when they face things such as Marines because the Rends count for a lot more in those situations.

Yep thats exactly how they get stomped, the amount of shots shooter boys put out and the attacks on the charged is really hurting. Add the nob with power klaw and thats normally a dead unit of wraiths.

Im not saying wraiths are a bad unit by a long shot but the group im playing in seems to be laughing at them.

Yes guys, we finally found out that small elite melee units are screwed when facing 60 Ork Boyz.
Which is why these move through terrain and are Jump Units.

You run away from Boyz and instead you go towards the Nobz and his HQ.

PS. A nob with PK isn't that dangerous.
You challenge him with your DLord and you kill him.

Kangodo wrote:
You run away from Boyz and instead you go towards the Nobz and his HQ.

Nah, man, if you're going after Nobs and HQ, you send in a Death & Despair squad.
(if they survive that, THEN you send in the Wraiths)

Lies! Death & Despair goes after the Warbiker-nobs to ignore the 4+ cover

Kangodo wrote:
Yes guys, we finally found out that small elite melee units are screwed when facing 60 Ork Boyz.
Which is why these move through terrain and are Jump Units.

You run away from Boyz and instead you go towards the Nobz and his HQ.

PS. A nob with PK isn't that dangerous.
You challenge him with your DLord and you kill him.

A challenge actually helps the Orks in this situation, because it prevents the Destroyer Lord from tanking all the wounds from the regular boyz with his 2+ armor save. The attached Destroyer Lord is what really makes Wraiths insane, because using him to take hits first on a 2+ save means the wraiths take half as many wounds on their way to the fight (aside from maneuverable or deep striking units shooting from the sides or rear of the unit), and half as many wounds IN close combat until the DL dies. The fact that he can Look Out Sir AP2 wounds onto the wraiths when needed on a 2+ makes the combo extremely reliable as well, because it's so hard to get rid of the darn DL. Strong, strong combo.

Keeep the nob back in the squad so he swings without a challenge for a round. Mass boys is hard for wraiths, certainly not a hard counter but a good matchup for Boys in my experience.

I guess the point of sending boyz at wraiths - whoever comes out on top - will be tying them up for a round or two. Prolly not a bad idea!

boyz units are problematic, but once you soften them up with some of the teslaguns you brought along they will eat them ...

WS4 makes Wraiths somewhat unreliable as a kick-your-teeth-in assault unit -- one good reason to take a Destroyer Lord is that he mitigates this weakness. But even with a D-Lord attached, mine have wiffed big many times, especially when facing off against numerically superior units who are also WS4 (or better). Wraiths may be very resilient, but they aren't untouchable and shouldn't expect to wade through every combat unscathed. Send them full-speed at the nearest assault target and they can easily end up paying for it.

With something like Boyz, I find the problem is rarely the first unit. They'll hit back hard enough and will probably take a couple Wraiths out early on, but 6 Wraiths should eventually prevail against 20-30 Boyz. The problem is the 'eventually.' 6 Wraiths are only getting 7 casualties a turn against Boyz (and less after a Wraith or two dies)... If there's more Boyz about to counter-assault (very likely), that's not fast enough.

I'm often lucky to face opponents who are overly aggressive with their Wraiths. In a recent game, for instance, 6 Wraiths charged my unit of 16 Flesh Hounds on turn 2. They killed 3 or 4 Hounds, lost a Wraith in return, then stuck there. The following turn, I counter-charged with 20 Daemonettes and the Wraiths were gone before they had another chance to swing. If this player had instead kept their Wraiths back, waited until one unit or the other was weakened, spread out, or committed to another assault, and then struck, I would've had few options to counter them. But instead they came to me and I had every option in the world.

So, playing with or against Wraiths, what I've seen again and again is that over-committing is the enemy. You should believe the hype to an extent: Wraiths easily place among the best units of the game. They are, bar none, the best assault unit in the Necron codex. However, if that reputation encourages you to assault Draigo + 10 Paladins, you might be disappointed.

Their strength is in their ability to take damage reliably and to slowly grind opposing units down. The most effective use that I have found (beyond an exceptional tarpit) is to clear out already damaged units.

The fact that unless you throw some amazing dice, they are just going to grind out combat, winning by one or two wounds each turn, is something you can use tactically because you can look at an assault with the hope of finishing it in the opponent's turn.

You do NOT want torrent of fire attacks to be thrown at your wraiths. I would much rather face down two vindicators, than two giant blobs. As a Vindy will do three wounds on average, maybe killing one wraith... while the blob will deal a bunch of wounding hits, causing you to roll a lot of 3+ saves. Same deal in CC, don't put them in a situation where they will see a ton of attacks against them. Fewer more powerful attacks are easier to survive, barring a fist full of ones and twos.

Another side note is that should be remembered is that they do have a 3+, 3++ save. They have a 3+ on their stat line as well as the phase shifter wargear (3++), so things that make you reroll invulnerable saves (psychic powers and such), can be mitigated.

I agree with Gangrel. I'd rather have my Wraiths face more elite units than large, cheap infantry based units.

I love my wraiths, but use them more as a scalpel instead of a baseball bat. I only ever flank them, if I deploy 2nd and I know what unit I'm going after. All other times, I start them in the middle behind my troops and use them as needed. (I've had people deploy away from my wraiths and come form the other side just to spite me)

Intercepting their flanking units, or cutting off assault attempts on my warrior blobs. Hunting down MC or IC units that I need to tie up. Very rarely will I launch them into a unit that I have not shot up. I almost always only use them if I can get the assault instead of being assaulted.

I find them to be a tough, vaulable unit but they are very large targets so I prefer to play more reactive with them.

@ Roci, playing them re-actively is, IMO, the superior strategy. They are very durable but can get whittled down quickly if they are too aggressive. The large threat range they can provide will do a good job keeping opponents pressed back in the movement phase.

That is the essence of what I was trying to say (in too many words). Wraiths make for a better counter-assault unit than a pure assault unit. They tie-up, whittle-down, finish-off well, but will often stumble if they go straight for the throat.