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Hi folks

I'm tempted by a white scars list on ebay with a couple of bike squads, a talon, scouts, and small assault squad (bout 1000pts I guess).

How do marine bike lists (that aren't ravenwing!) fair in 6th ed?

Any general 'white scars in 6th' thoughts?

How would you add to (or take from) the models above to make it competitive at higher points?


Cheers!

h.

C:SM bikes are still a valid choice. 6th gave bikes some nice perks to bikes, making them a bit more survivable.

Where to go from there depends a lot on what kind of upgrades you have on the bikes, and how thematic/fluffy you want to be.

Attack bikes squads are good support. HBs or MM depending on what you need. If you need more mid range fire typhoon speeders or another stormtalon would fit. Want a hammer? Bike command squad. There are a lot of different ways to go.

If you want to run a "pure" bike army, Ravenwing will probably do that job better. However, I think there's a place for a Codex: Space Marine biker army in 6th edition, leveraging Codex: Space Marines' stronger support elements with Stormtalons and Thunderfire Cannons.

Heldrakes..

Way too efficient at killing bikers.

LValx wrote:
Heldrakes..

Way too efficient at killing bikers.

That's one of the main reasons to run a bike army in Codex: Space Marines instead of Codex: Dark Angels, though. Space Marines have access to Stormtalons, which are much more effective at taking out Heldrakes than either of the Dark Angel flyers, especially when combined with Null Zone.

 Kingsley wrote:

LValx wrote:
Heldrakes..

Way too efficient at killing bikers.

That's one of the main reasons to run a bike army in Codex: Space Marines instead of Codex: Dark Angels, though. Space Marines have access to Stormtalons, which are much more effective at taking out Heldrakes than either of the Dark Angel flyers, especially when combined with Null Zone.

The problem I see here is that C:SM bikes are pricier and by taking Storm Talons you also decrease the amount of bikes, making the army more elite. I'm not saying it can't work, but I do think Bike armies are best when there are A LOT of bikes.

I'm also not sure 3 Storm Talons would really help that much vs 3 Heldrakes. The Heldrake Alpha-strike would do a lot of damage to the bikers and I think the 3 Talons would struggle to even kill 2 Drakes in return (lots of factors here of course, such as rear armor shots).

I still think Ravenwing do bikes the best. I'd probably consider running the Bolter Banner list and just try to out-play anyone bringing along Drakes (If they show rear armor TL 4 shot bolters will put em down).

Honestly? Run Chaos Space Marines as a counts-as White Scars. You get super cheap bikes with tons of options, they just aren't scoring. And then you can heldrake their heldrakes with your own heldrakes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
heldrakes

 Badablack wrote:
Honestly? Run Chaos Space Marines as a counts-as White Scars. You get super cheap bikes with tons of options, they just aren't scoring. And then you can heldrake their heldrakes with your own heldrakes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
heldrakes

Heresy! Call the commissar.

Honestly though there is no great answer for elite T5 Sv3+ armies when the heldrake and/or Tau/riptide are brought up. The standard answer that seems to work the best is use your manoeuvrability to stay out of the flyer's fire lanes.

I think the RW is probably a better all bike army but if you just want ~50% bikes then I still prefer RW/DW...but I think that SM has some good setups that can take advantage of some of your combinations. One setup is beacons on your bike squads and then take a libby/stern guard unit. GoI the sternguard around the battle field to support whatever biker group can do the most damage. Another thing is the TFC which is a steal and can give some great support by removing entrenched positions that your bikers may have trouble dealing with. Storm talons as mentioned above are something DA don't have and can be helpful but I have not been that impressed by them.

As to how they fair... well the really good players seem to be doing pretty well with RW but overall I would not call it a tournament level army. SM bike armies have not in my per-view been a tournament level army in recent memory. Some bike elements in an army do seem to be helpful however and if you like the looks of the army you should be able to hold your own in local games (at least after some practice, did I mention elite fast armies tend to be the most difficult to learn) if you get good enough I have seen a few people who can decimate an opponent with a biker army, just don't get down if you get wiped your first few games with them.

Hamlet, I've recently started a White Scars army, something I've thought about for a long time but only just got around to. My first proper game was batrep'd here if you're interested - there are another two games I have yet to write up as well.

While Ravenwing are superficially similar to the White Scars, in practice they play quite a bit differently, other than both being fast, bike/speeder-based forces. In particular, having to take Belial makes it tricky to make them 'counts as' White Scars

Bikes definitely make for a specialist army - while you have significant strengths in terms of your mobility and individual toughness, you also have weaknesses, in particular a low model count and an inability to climb stairs! They've got a fair learning curve - formations , distance, cover and range can all have a massive impact. I'm only just starting out, and can see I've got a lot of thinking to do, having made significant mistakes in each of the games I've played...

What really did it for me though it the White Scars background and feel. I love the idea of them being the 40k equivalent of commandos, masters of asymmetrical hit-and-run warfare. Anyone fighting White Scars is going to have rings run around them. The way I imagine them working is to be dropped on-planet in small numbers - a month later the enemy's entire logistical and supply framework has been annihilated, their forces have been run ragged chasing down an enemy who is already a hundred miles away, and they're running out of food, water, fuel, and bullets!

I've played a white scar bike list for ages and they can be very good in tournament play - they do take quite a bit of time to learn how to use though. I pretty much lost almost every game I played with them when I started as I thought of them as marines on a bike. No, no no!

You have to change your mindset as to how you play them. Once you do this they can be competitive but everyone is right in that they take time to learn and use well.

Their massive bonus is speed. They can be on an opponent almost from the end of turn 1. Attacking piecemeal usually results in a loss. No divide and conquer. Go for one part of an opponents army set up with all the bikes to overwhelm them. Whilst at the same time distracting their big units with something else, like some drop podding troops. Typhoon speeder are awesome and probably better than having any flier support in my opinion.

Although this is based on playing a lot of guard armies running 3 vendettas!