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It feels right to me. I think I have a couple of very high threat units plus mobility with reasonable mix of ap2 and antihorde.

What does the DakkaDakka community think?!!

HQ

Farseer: Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Spirit Stones, Fortune, Doom - 155

Archon*: Shadow Field - 90


TROOP

Jetbikes (3): Shuriken Cannon - 76

Jetbikes (3): Shuriken Cannon - 76

Wraithguard (10) - 396
Spiritseer: Conceal

Kalabite Warriors* (5): Blaster - 135
Venom: Splintercannon, Night Shield


ELITE

Harlequin Troupe: 8x Harlequin Kiss - 266
Shadowseer: Harlequin Kiss
Troupe Master: Harlequin Kiss

Kalabite Trueborn (5): 2x Blaster, 2x Splintercannons - 185
Venom: 2x Splintercannon, Night Shields


HEAVY

Wraithlord: Wraithsword, Scatter Laser, 2 x Flamers - 120

TOTAL 1499

I am set on the wraithlord...I think he's just so many points and in my experience dies first turn to a measly volley of krak missiles. Maybe get a fire prism instead? Does the Archon/Farseer both go in the Wraithguard? Harlequins? Split them up?

Drop the wraithlord and replace it with a nightspinner. You can now slow down targets, force dangerous terrain test on big blobs and snipe dangerous models for 5 points less.

Troupe master is better equipped with a different weapon. Ask the TO or somebody else about what "power weapon" means. If you can take a power lance (+1S, ap3 on the charge), else take a power sword (user's strenght, ap 3). Don't get into challenges against TEQ.

Not sure on the wraithguard unit. They are too slow to keep up with harlequins and easily out played. They just don't have a transportation system, so no one will shoot at them unless they are shooting something that will kill them. Like a Heldrake, which you have no counter to, and WILL be there, quite a few of them...

Also I can tell you are not a pure Dark elder player. Never, Never, generalize a trueborn squad. Either go darklight, or go splinter, don't go both. If you are shooting splinters optimally then you are at 36 range, blasters are wasted. If you are using blasters optimally, as anti/tank, which you lack, then splinters are wasted. Drop splinters for 2 more blasters, get blasting. The problem is your units will hit his lines at different times. Harlequins will be in first, who either wont be shot at, or will only be shot at by things that will brake the unit. Wraiths hit lines a turn after, at least turn 3/4. By then they are reduced to mulch by Bale flamers or Krak missiles.

In my eyes this list needs major re thinking. You have anti-horde and a fair bit of ap1 sure, but what about anti-tank? 3 blasters, a few 12 inch guns and a wraithlord. Anti flyer, none to be seen. All I'm seeing is all the wrong upgrades in all the wrong places. Shuri cannons on jetbikes is just plain wrong, how can they keep under the radar if they are plinking away within 24 inches of enemy? A bare bones archon? Nightshields on blastervenoms????

Before we can get this sorted out you have to make a single decision, Harlequins or wraithguard? You don't have room for 2 such expensive deathstars while ticking all the boxes of anti-tank, flyer, hordes, Teq and vehicle. Ill get back to you.

Alex...thanks for honest critique and yes new to DE...new to Eldar in general. I want to create a Quin theme, I thought wraithguard would work better than firé dragons. Let me address some of your suggestions see if I can work something out. Will repost soon!

Here you go Alex,

You might slap me for keeping both Wraithguard and Quins and also not freeing up points for Huskblade!

You might like to hear that I can loose the Shuricannons from the Jetbikes, the Blasters from the Trueborn and the Wraithlord all together and replaced them with:


Farseer: Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Spirit Stones, Fortune, Doom - 155

Archon*: Shadowfield - 90

TROOP

Jetbikes (3) - 66

Jetbikes (3) - 66

Wraithguard (10) - 396
Spiritseer: Conceal

Kalabite Warriors* (10): Splintercannon - 170
Raider: Disintrergrator Cannon, Nightshield

Kalabite Warriors* (5) - 135
Venom: Splintercannon, Nightshield


ELITE

Harlequin Troupe: 8x H'Kisses - 266
Shadowseer: H'Kiss
Troupe Master: H'Kiss

Kalabite Trueborn (5): 2 x Darklances - 156
Raider: Nightshield

This works out at 1500 points on the dot!

I could combine the Jetbikes units and loose one to make room for a weapon for the Archon if that made sense?
Does this work any better? Obviously I am aware of the new Codex due out next month, so everything is going to change somewhat.

Its a good start to a list. Only a few amendments. The unit of 5 warriors can't use a splinter cannon, You should swa it for a blaster. The problem with LanceBorn is that they can't move and shoot, so there is no use for the venom unless you just want a free 12 poisen shots (who doesn't). Drop trueborn down to 3 models with 2 darklances. I believe this leaves you about 30pts, get yourself a Djinblade on the Archon for your anti Meq needs.

Oh and take the dark lance on the raider, you need the AT. You can drop nightshields on unit trueborn raider because they are a long range threat, any any long range stuff WILL be in range. Swap them for splinter racks on the splinter boat.

good luck.

No moving and firing dark lances? Ok so splinter cannons for all the kalabite troops and D'Lances on boats?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh Also, should I loose all Night shields from all transporta?

If anything, I recommend taking the Baron over your Archon for an extra 15 points. I think he is practically mandatory when running a full size Wraithguard unit.

What does he bring to the table?

Hit and run + stealth, all of which your harlequins already have. All this time I've been assuming that the Archon is to go with Harlequins for a re-rollable 2++, is this right? IF the Archon is going with wraithguard then a swap to the Baron I whole heartedly agree with.

Nightfields really have 1 use, so you can run in and out of rapid fire/24 inches. They are used to reduce rapid fire bolter shots by skimming JUST into 12 inch range and killing the lead few MEQ's. This means when they move forward to rapid fire, since first 4 are dead, only 1 will be in rapid fire range. NF are of little use on a blastervenom because you have to get close to use it well, negating the best use of nightfields (skimming to 24, killing a few so there is no return) and of little use on long range stuff because your out of bolter range anyway, and it wont save you from a 48 inch las cannon. Id say the only unit that benefits greatly from it is the Gunboat of Splinters.



two extra trueborn bodies are useless. If they get shot, they will die, 2 extra t3 wounds wont save you. It says take 2 darklances, nothing about unit size. Take a min unit of 3 with 2 DL's, hide in cover and snipe. Go to ground if shot at by anything.

The biggest threat to Wraithguard is being tarpitted. Baron brings a lot especially Hit and Run and Offensive and Defensive Grenades. Therefore I'm a lot of cases your opponent won't want to assault the Wraithguard as Hit and Run will set up fairly wicked shooting.

I would rather see the 10 man Kabalite unit drop the cannon and add Splinter Racks to the Raider.

You would be better off dropping the Trueborn unit for a Ravager if you want long range AT.

I still don't see the point of the vanilla Archon. What does he bring to the table besides filling an HQ slot?

Archon is going with the Quins for the 2+ with re-roll

Dropped 5 man Kalabites for Scourges? I


HQ

Farseer: Stones and stuff

Archon*: Djin Blade, Shadowfield

TROOP

Jetbikes (3)

Jetbikes (3)

Wraithguard (10)
Spiritseer: Conceal

Kalabite Warriors* (10): Darklance
Raider

ELITE

Harlequin Troupe: 8 x Kisses
Shadowseer: Kiss
Troupe Master: Kiss

Kalabite Trueborn* (3): 2 x Splintercannon
Raider: Splinter racks


FAST

Scourges* (5): 2 x Darklances



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Obviously I can look to Exchange splinter cannons for more darklance?

Scourges coud have haywire or loose them all together?

Ravager instead?

Doomweaver?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thats interesting with Barón. I suppose its weighing up how the quins cope with their saves based on cover not the Archon.

I think I may end up leaving Archon in but certainly my brain is beggining to throb!

The Harlies don't need the Shadow field protection in most cases. Baron also has a Shadowfield and can immensely improve the Wraithguard. These units work in tandem this set up gives both units hit and run.

I find there are too many cover ignoring options to run a Dark Harlestar without a shadowfield. Vs. Tau that unit is as good as dead, flamers, heldrakes, mortors all smash that t3 expensive ninja elf unit to smithereens. But see how it works, its your meta. If you don't see tau often, have fairly terrain covered boards then you might be fine without an Archon.

Personally I like my trueborn as anti-tank because we have so much anti infantry everywhere else. Especially in a no ravage list. Also as a note, splinter cannons don't benefit from splinter racks, stupid but true. Most people don't like the dark lance on troop warriors because its heavy. You need your raider moving to get jink, and if you are moving DL is snap firing. Stick with splintercannon, if only so you can allocate wounds over 24 inches away.

I don't like Dark lances on scourges, a trueborn squad is a cheaper way to get 2 dark lances, and a ravage is only a little bit more (or less?) for a third and an armour value. If your using scourges, which I wont say is a bad idea, they are great. You have to make use of what is unique to them. Being fast, so that leaves you heat lances, who have better places on reavers, blasters which are found better on trueborn and haywire blasters. These are interesting, I like them. My meta has a fair few landraiders though, so it depends on your meta once again. I would advise against the ravage *GASP!!!!* for the soul reason that it'd be your only one. What is he going to fire his anti tank at in an army with but a single AV 11 skimmer threat? Yeah....

other wise just swap DL for splintercannon and give that unit S.racks. Then i'd advise swapping trueborn back for lances or blasters in a venom, that is up to you. But I like the raider idea for a pseudo ravage, but make sure to give them flickerfields so they have same save as jinking raiders.

I was hoping to use Eldar Jetbikers as a screen for the D'Eldar boats. I would get a 3+ cover save?

Can Baron (Jump Infantry) join Wraithguard unit?

Jetbikes would only obscure a boat, granting a 5+ save. You get that for jinking, and it doesn't stack =( Neat idea though, but the point of bikers is that they're alive to take objectives at the end

Yes he can, units can move at different speeds this editition.

The codex States the hit and run only works on other helion units. Only the stealth special rule gets adopted by wraiths.

tournytom wrote:I was hoping to use Eldar Jetbikers as a screen for the D'Eldar boats. I would get a 3+ cover save?

Can Baron (Jump Infantry) join Wraithguard unit?

Yes he can.

tournytom wrote:The codex States the hit and run only works on other helion units. Only the stealth special rule gets adopted by wraiths.

The baron has H&R. A single model with H&R is enough to run away from combat, as stated by brb. This is similar to Tank hunters, move through cover and stealth.

KK I am sorta new to Eldar, but have been running them all this time cause deadly clowns? what is not to like? Now your list is kinda slow and I really don't want to mess with your list, but this is what I would do to make your harlies really freaking scary and Eldar don't have what we need from DE.

First order of business would be to take out the wraithguard unit and putting in a guardian squad with a cannon. (85) to fill up that troop choice.

Second there are two variations. One is the path that will simply ignore flyers and the other is a anti everthing with an AV of 13 or less.

To ignore flyers: put the harlies in the transport thingy with shield (no idea what it is called, but played against DE enough) since Harlies are very unique and are part of both the DE and Eldar codex! I am going to assume that the transport has a maximum of 10 and if 12 add 2 more harlies. Then use what ever points you got left for more fun.

Anti tank fun: Go 5 Fire Dragons with an Exarch that has tankhunter and crack shot and set em up behind a quad gun. After that hell turkeys won't bother you much. Spend left overs on something nice for the army...barrel of blood perhaps?

If he takes out wraithguard for guardians with cannon (which, by the way is the worst gun to take. Expensive, shot by a BS 3 model in a toughness 3 unit) where would this unit go? Hunker behind cover to shoot 2 shots a turn, 1 of which will hit, to maybe kill a marine?

The reason he needs wraithguard is to push up line of defence aggressively. Swap them for guardians and all them can do is hope not to die by going to ground on home objective. Not very productive, even for 85pts.

Second there is a reason Harlequins don't go in a transport, otherwise don't you think everyone would do it? When, and I mean when, the transport explodes every Harlequin gets wounded on a 4+. You can't take cover against it, so your stuck on that 5++ save of yours to stop your REALLY expensive elf ninjas dyeing. Not to mention that they can't take a dedicated transport and need to steal someone else's.

Also you don't need a full unit of Harlequins. Like ever bar apocalypse. That's just overkill, considering each Harlequin is just ablative wounds for the Archon's 2++ and huskblade.

I have no idea what this 'shield', or even what codex its from. Shield as in Nightshields (raider), how does this help against flyers? Shield as in energy shield (wave serpant), not exactly stellar protection by a long shot. Vects Dias shield? AV 13 is good and all, but if he is running this I REALLY need to see that list.

I think the stronger Death Stars for Eldar are the jetbike council and the beast pack but I like the harlequins and wraith guard so based your original list I'd make the following changes;

Lose the shuriken cannons on the bikes, they should be reserved and jetting around staying out of trouble to contest/claim late game.
Swap the archon for the baron so both Death Stars have hit and run. The harlequins should have a 3+ cover save anyway behind the wraith guard for counter charge action.
Lose the wraith lord for some ranged anti tank eg a ravager.
Put a power axe on the troupe master for guaranteed ap2 hits.
Minimise the true born to either do AI or AT/splinters or lances, lose the night shields on the vehicles and with the saved points get Eldrad so you can fortune both deathstars.

Which ToS are you going to?

I contemplated guardián Squad with shuricannon to run behind my wraithguard more to give the wraithguard a bubblewrap but its points for nothing in my opinion.

There are a lot rumours that the new Wave Serpent will be an assault vehicle which might change things, although I agree that being Shot down is too risky for my élite élites. They get a very lovely 2+ cover save which I can reroll if it goes wrong or I can put the archon in There with them to give a 2++ sabe with reroll.
If the Barón confers his hit and run ability to my wraithguard unit plus the stealth, then that is mighty tempting and makes an already nasty unit more so. If he only passes his stealth on then ill leave the wraiths as is. If they are assaulted, I do have the clowns to back them up.

Is it just me, or is this turning into the same 'Baron Delivery System' that many many other lists seem to be?

This guy said he wanted to run Eldar because he liked the Harlequins, and they seem to be being minimised at the moment.

Is it possible to build a reasonably decent force that actually focuses on the clowns? That's kind of what I was expecting to see in this thread.

My apologies SD,

Yes Quins is where its at for me but as ToS will only realistically allow me to field one unit, I really do need the wisdom of ELdar and Dark Eldar players alike to build me a solid list. I can then take these elements and work the fluff around it. Dark Eldar do work really well for fluff as they are all pretty fast.

The Baron thing only came up recently and I am just determining what he can do and whether or not its worth taking.

Again, apologies but hopefully I will end up with a list thats potent and fluffy!

Hey, no need to apologise! Just thought there would be something different in this discussion, thought I'd ask, in case others had some ideas that way.

Alex i am referring to the shield that -6" maximum range of all guns targeting that vehicle.

If people are too afraid of their transport blowing up with the harlies inside, then maybe they should become better tacticians. The DE player I play against automatically learned from our first fight (we are on our second) that my quad gun is a huge threat, my night spinner, my WW and my Warp Spiders, so what does he do? Make it so my quad can only see in vanguard strike fashion, all dark lances kill the night spinner, then WW since they outflanked and didn't come on turn 2. The only thing he wasn't able to really get to were my spiders. So what have we learned? You use the thing between your ear and get behind cover till your close to the enemy then move 6", disembark 6" then carge the average 7" with fleet. What does that spell? Almost 20" of range to get into melee with an enemy squad. Assuming one goes flat out turn 1 that means turn 2 you are most likely getting into CC and then from there wreaking havoc among the people.

To answer some rules questions I am here!!

Baron offers a unit

Hit an run (he does NOT offer the reroll to hit and run which is only for hellions)
Stealth
FLEET (reroll charge dice fun)
2++ save
Combat drugs
Pain tokens
+3 str on charge!!
Bonus to who goes first.....
HE IS AWESOME!

Allie question - if you ally eldar with dark eldar can you get two Harlie troups?

Bugger, jetbikes are now fast attack units (IC to unlock as troops)
Hope the IC wont be too expensive 120 points or less, fingers crossed!