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When assaulting ( I know assaulting with tau sounds like a bad idea but the farsight bomb isn't to bad in assault.) can i charge any of the units i shoot at or do i have to choose a main target and charge that squad.

You choose a main target that the squad is shooting at for the purposes of assaulting it.

Then you nominate any targets that you are shooting at with Target Locks. Then you resolve the shooting simultaneously.



"This squad is going to shoot at this unit. And these models with Target Locks are going to shoot at these other targets."

I disagree.

The models with Target Locks are still "targeting" whatever it is they fire at, which is the requirement for assaulting after shooting, that you targeted the enemy you are attempting to assault in the shooting phase.

It's determined on a per unit basis, but a unit that utilizes Target Locks has targeted more than one enemy unit, thus each of them is a valid unit to charge.

 Drunkspleen wrote:
I disagree.

The models with Target Locks are still "targeting" whatever it is they fire at, which is the requirement for assaulting after shooting, that you targeted the enemy you are attempting to assault in the shooting phase.

It's determined on a per unit basis, but a unit that utilizes Target Locks has targeted more than one enemy unit, thus each of them is a valid unit to charge.

A unit has to charge the unit they shot at. A model with a target lock can fire at a different unit then the rest of the unit. Therefore since the squad fired at Unit A, and model fired at Unit B, the squad can only charge Unit A.

Yes I understand how you are coming to the conclusion you are, I simply don't agree that a unit has only targeted it's primary target, I believe it has targeted all enemies that the component parts of the unit have themselves targeted.

Things with Split Fire can assault either target they fired at. Seems like a reasonable precedent.

 Drunkspleen wrote:
Yes I understand how you are coming to the conclusion you are, I simply don't agree that a unit has only targeted it's primary target, I believe it has targeted all enemies that the component parts of the unit have themselves targeted.

You seem to have missed the point. The unit fires at the enemy unit. The models, not unit, of the unit with target lock are permitted to select a different target to what the unit is firing at. As you can only charge what the unit, not individual models in the unit that changed their target, fired at then you must declare what the unit is firing at as the primary target for assault. Declaring you are charging any other unit that individual models, not the unit, in the unit fired at is not permitted by the rules. Even assaulting the primary target and one of the other units will count as a disordered charge as the unit, not models in the unit with target lock, did not declare its target as that unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Things with Split Fire can assault either target they fired at. Seems like a reasonable precedent.

Since when can split fire choose? Its a single model making an immediate shooting attack before the unit resolves its shooting as normal. there is nothing in the rule book or the FAQ that permits the unit to charge the unit that the model that was chosen to split fire fires at.

 Bausk wrote:
You seem to have missed the point. The unit fires at the enemy unit. The models, not unit, of the unit with target lock are permitted to select a different target to what the unit is firing at. As you can only charge what the unit, not individual models in the unit that changed their target, fired at then you must declare what the unit is firing at as the primary target for assault. Declaring you are charging any other unit that individual models, not the unit, in the unit fired at is not permitted by the rules. Even assaulting the primary target and one of the other units will count as a disordered charge as the unit, not models in the unit with target lock, did not declare its target as that unit.

I do get your point, and it is a good one to raise.

My issue is, I don't feel the game actually delineates between units and their constituent members in the way that you are suggesting.

Off the top of my head I know Stealth and Shrouded don't, they give a cover save bonus specifically to a unit, rather than to all models in the unit, even though units, strictly speaking, don't have cover saves. We take this to mean that all models in the unit receive the bonus, I'm sure I could find many more similar instances too.

Which is why I don't subscribe to the belief that you can accurately say "the unit targeted X, but members of it targeted Y using target locks", the unit targeted everything that models in the unit targeted, because a unit isn't a unique entity from the models that make it up, they are one and the same.

 Drunkspleen wrote:

 Bausk wrote:
You seem to have missed the point. The unit fires at the enemy unit. The models, not unit, of the unit with target lock are permitted to select a different target to what the unit is firing at. As you can only charge what the unit, not individual models in the unit that changed their target, fired at then you must declare what the unit is firing at as the primary target for assault. Declaring you are charging any other unit that individual models, not the unit, in the unit fired at is not permitted by the rules. Even assaulting the primary target and one of the other units will count as a disordered charge as the unit, not models in the unit with target lock, did not declare its target as that unit.

I do get your point, and it is a good one to raise.

My issue is, I don't feel the game actually delineates between units and their constituent members in the way that you are suggesting.

Off the top of my head I know Stealth and Shrouded don't, they give a cover save bonus specifically to a unit, rather than to all models in the unit, even though units, strictly speaking, don't have cover saves. We take this to mean that all models in the unit receive the bonus, I'm sure I could find many more similar instances too.

Which is why I don't subscribe to the belief that you can accurately say "the unit targeted X, but members of it targeted Y using target locks", the unit targeted everything that models in the unit targeted, because a unit isn't a unique entity from the models that make it up, they are one and the same.

Special rules make for specific allowances in specific circumstances. In the case of stealth and shrouded the special rule applies to the whole unit if the requirement is met, being one model with the rule. As for a rule like split fire the rule is also applied to the whole unit but only makes one specific allowance for a single model make an immediate shooting attack at a different unit to that the unit is firing at. It does not grant any permission beyond that. Meaning, it does not give permission for the unit to assault the enemy unit a single model from its unit fired at. The unit still makes a normal shooting attack, point and fact split fire states as much rather specifically, which is to be taken as the units normal shooting for all intents as there is no permission to treat it as otherwise.

I think you missed my point with regards to stealth and shrouded.

you say:

In the case of stealth and shrouded the special rule applies to the whole unit if the requirement is met, being one model with the rule.

And this is exactly what I was getting at. The rules use a wording that refers to the cover save of the unit, but we take that not to mean the unit as a separate entity, and instead increase the cover save of every model in the unit.

Similarly I would argue, that when the assault rules tell us a unit must have targeted an enemy with a shooting attack, we take that to mean, models within the unit must have targeted the unit we intend to charge. So long as some models have targeted the unit we are charging, then the unit can be said to have targeted them, to some extent.

The unit still makes a normal shooting attack, point and fact split fire states as much rather specifically, which is to be taken as the units normal shooting for all intents

I also disagree with this assertion in that, Split Fire doesn't tell you the unit makes a normal shooting attack, it tells you "the rest of the unit" resolve a shooting attack at a different target.

It's an important distinction because "the rest of the unit" is as much as subsection of the unit as the lone model who fired before them, neither is the whole unit, so to say one can count as "the unit" but the other can't doesn't seem accurate to me.

IMO and HIWPI

The unit nominates a target as per BRB, nothing in the Tau codex over rides this.

Then you chose to use targetlock to shoot at a different target to the "rest of his squad" (this overrides the BRB rule of all models in the unit must shoot at the same target).

The target for the purposes of charging is the orignal target selected, not the targets selected for the purposes of the target lock as that is done on a per model basis not a unit basis as per the Tau codex

In the case of you have a unit of 3 crisis suits all with target locks, and you shoot at 3 different targets with the 3, i think you can assault any, or you must choose which of the 3 before shooting is your "main target" for a assault.

This is a easier case with Drones, as they dont have splitfire and whatever the drones shoot at you have to assault as they are the unit.

Its a interesting issue, i guess it wasnt cleared up due to dau isnt supposed to assault in the first place

"can shoot at a different target than his unit".

Unit has a target established. That is the target that you can charge. The "target locked" shot is NOT the unit's target. You cannot charge it.

Plain English, this isn't hard.