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Can you overwatch with aertillery?, had a quick look at the rules and couldnt find anything on page 46 to say no unless I have missed something?


Also are these buggers not able to be killed in CC?, they follow the rules for artillery in the BRB plus they have the automated artillery rules, basically they are auto hit and roll to wound normally but when it comes to allocating the wounds the artillery rules in the BRB says "no wounds can be assigned to the guns". RAW that seems pretty darn evil!, not that I would pull that in a game but its useful to know if I meet TFG

You can't overwatch with blast weapons so sorry no mortars to the face!

Was mainly thinking about hyperios, also on page 46 it says "no wounds can be allocated t the guns"

RAW, does that mean my hyperios cannot be hurt in combat? haha (not exactly serious on this point, havent got Aeronautica to hand to check)

Re-read the first sentence under Shooting with Artillery. It'll answer your question rather clearly.

 Jihadnik wrote:
You can't overwatch with blast weapons so sorry no mortars to the face!

Not all artillery is blast though (as above hyperios) yes its forgeworld (rapier is also artillery) not sure if there is any other non FW non blast artillery but still question stands


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Happyjew wrote:
Re-read the first sentence under Shooting with Artillery. It'll answer your question rather clearly.

Ah the old they cannot make snap shots, I always read that as if they have moved they cant but RAW it says they cant.

I still take that as the context of them moving though rather then overwatch

No, it means they cannot make snapshots. MOving is one way of making a heavy weapon overwatch....

MarkyMark wrote:
Was mainly thinking about hyperios, also on page 46 it says "no wounds can be allocated t the guns"

RAW, does that mean my hyperios cannot be hurt in combat? haha (not exactly serious on this point, havent got Aeronautica to hand to check)

It can be hurt just fine. It is a vehicle, not artillery.

If it was Artillery, it would have crew, and the gun would be removed when the crew dies (BRB p46)

foolishmortal wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
Was mainly thinking about hyperios, also on page 46 it says "no wounds can be allocated t the guns"

RAW, does that mean my hyperios cannot be hurt in combat? haha (not exactly serious on this point, havent got Aeronautica to hand to check)

It can be hurt just fine. It is a vehicle, not artillery.

If it was Artillery, it would have crew, and the gun would be removed when the crew dies (BRB p46)

Nope, it IS artillery, it has T and W values and follows the rules for artillery.

Sorry, thought you meant the Whirlwind Hyperios from IA2 p66

Did you mean the Hyperios Air Defense Battery from IAAero p39?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
If that is the case, then I would refer you to
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/v/vehicle6thupdates.pdf

As Automated Artillery, this unit does not have crew, but can be wounded in CC

"Unlike standard artillery, Automated Artillery does not require crew in
order to function. It is not removed from play due to lack of crew and
each gun must be destroyed normally before it is removed from play.
Automated Artillery cannot move and cannot charge. If assaulted they
do not pile-in and cannot be locked in combat, their attackers will hit
automatically, but must roll To Wound normally. If a unit of Automated
Artillery loses an assault nothing happens, there are no Sweeping
Advances, no Pile-ins and no Consolidation moves. The Automated
Artillery remains in place and may fire normally in future turns. If the
Automated Artillery wins an assault due to exceptional circumstances, the
enemy must take a Morale test as normal, although the Artillery cannot
Consolidate or make a Sweeping Advance."

Yep you can roll to wound for a lot of things but it says you cannot allocate wounds to the gun on page 46.

There is nothing there to override that fact (i.e you can roll to wound for models of LOS but you cant allocate wounds to them)

Automated Artillery != Artillery.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Automated Artillery != Artillery.

Not sure what you mean Nos?

That you are following the rules for artillery, despite being told they are Automated Artillery.

So the rule saying you cannot wound the gun, only the crew in CC, cannot apply

The FAQ says they follow the rules for artillery

Artillery
Some units which were previously classified as Vehicles have changed unit types and are now Artillery units in Warhammer 40,000 sixth edition. Forge
World units affected by these changes are listed below, along with any changes to the basic Artillery rules:
Unit Crew Special Rules
Heavy Artillery Battery 4 Immobile², Gun Carriage³ (a Heavy Artillery piece has 4 Wounds)
Tarantula 0 Automated Artillery¹
Sabre Gun Platform 1 Immobile², Scout
Hyperios Platform 0 Automated Artillery¹ (the Hyperios Platform gains the Skyfire and Interceptor special rules)

Nos, Automated Artillery is a rule some Artillery units have, not a new unit type

MarkyMark, seriously?

Seriously what bud?.

MarkyMark wrote:
Also are these buggers not able to be killed in CC?, they follow the rules for artillery in the BRB plus they have the automated artillery rules, basically they are auto hit and roll to wound normally but when it comes to allocating the wounds the artillery rules in the BRB says "no wounds can be assigned to the guns". RAW that seems pretty darn evil!, not that I would pull that in a game but its useful to know if I meet TFG

Sorry, didnt read your OP thoroughly enough.
It seems clear you are making a RAW argument, not to be unleashed upon the world except as Mutually Assured Destruction against TFG. I can respect that

I was thinking about it earlier why I am quite competitive and a bit of a rules lawyer, in one particular tourney I went to I had TFG, by far the worst player I have faced since I started playing 8-9 months ago, because of that and a dew other mistakes I made in another tourney which cost me games because of me not knowing the rules 100%.

I mainly play at two local clubs, sometimes with other competitive players with competitive lists, mainly fun games with themed lists or highlander lists, I dont usually enforce the nit pickitey rules in those games but I do in the competitive games as those rules will be in use against me.

I just think it is good to know the rules as best you can and be prepered for little things like this!. (i.e if someone pulled off the GTG in area terrian behind a ruin for 2plus cover, I'd pull off a few rules myself )

Meh, +2 cover save vs +3 cover save, with the added condition/penalty that you have to GTG is far from TFG IMO

Tank shocking via Deep Strike maybe...

I think I will start a thread, here or elsewhere asking people what rules abuse/loophole is greivious enough in their opinion to justify the TFG label

It lists a whole slew of reasons they are "unlike" normal artillery, being able to wound them is implicitly one of them

Yep so you follow the BRB CC rules, you roll to wound (allowed as per IA Aeronautica) then when it comes to allocate wounds you fall foul of the Artillery rules in the BRB that you cannot allocate wounds to guns. I did check first and couldnt find a reason to over ride the wound allocation.

The whole slew of reasons?, all the rules under automated artillery are to get around not having crew nothing about wound allocation

Unlike standard artillery, Automated Artillery does not require crew in
order to function. It is not removed from play due to lack of crew and
each gun must be destroyed normally before it is removed from play.
Automated Artillery cannot move and cannot charge. If assaulted they
do not pile-in and cannot be locked in combat, their attackers will hit
automatically, but must roll To Wound normally. If a unit of Automated
Artillery loses an assault nothing happens, there are no Sweeping
Advances, no Pile-ins and no Consolidation moves. The Automated
Artillery remains in place and may fire normally in future turns. If the
Automated Artillery wins an assault due to exceptional circumstances, the
enemy must take a Morale test as normal, although the Artillery cannot
Consolidate or make a Sweeping Advance

And Forgeworld editing strikes again. Well played...

RAW you're right, RAI is obvious and you'd be shot down by any reasonable TO.

If I had to make a RAW argument against this proposed insanity it would go something like this.

The Automated Artillery rule says "Unlike standard artillery, Automated Artillery does not require crew in order to function. It is not removed from play due to lack of crew and each gun must be destroyed normally before it is removed from play." underlining mine

Since 'must' > 'cannot' (permissive rules set), the normal rules for wounding models are used, modified only as stated in the Automated Artillery rule (automatic hit)

not perfect, (it says must be destroyed normally, not must be wounded normally) but it's the best I have off the top of my head

Destroyed = removed as a casualty in 6th ed.

foolishmortal wrote:
If I had to make a RAW argument against this proposed insanity it would go something like this.

The Automated Artillery rule says "Unlike standard artillery, Automated Artillery does not require crew in order to function. It is not removed from play due to lack of crew and each gun must be destroyed normally before it is removed from play." underlining mine

Since 'must' > 'cannot' (permissive rules set), the normal rules for wounding models are used, modified only as stated in the Automated Artillery rule (automatic hit)

not perfect, (it says must be destroyed normally, not must be wounded normally) but it's the best I have off the top of my head

Except, of course, you're forbidden from actually allocating the wounds (page 46 BRB).
You can shoot the thing to death, just can't whack it with a heavy stick and do anything.

rigeld2 wrote:
Except, of course, you're forbidden from actually allocating the wounds (page 46 BRB).
You can shoot the thing to death, just can't whack it with a heavy stick and do anything.

Agreed. I said it was the best argument I had off the top of my head. I didn't say it was perfect or even persuasive