Cease & Desist letter sent to Dakka on behalf of Resin Forge & its owner Daniel Mandelbaum

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**alarmingrick**

So, Yak is the latest "victim" of Mandelbaum?! Is the C & D from a real company?

**WingWong**

I'm not going to read this whole post as I am revising for my Bar exams. However, if dakkaawesomesauce needs some free (unofficial) guidance on anything, let me know via PM.

This sounds totally ridiculous to me

**WarOne**

It looks fishy at best.

**derek**

reds8n wrote:

IIRC the C & D was in the form of an email.

Isn't that a legal no-no in the US? I somewhat recall one of the resident lawyers bringing that up in the Romeo vs TastyTaste C&D.

**Pyriel-**

Hehe, I would love to see him daring to take this all the way to court. He would be shooting himself in the foot but then again, given the intellect displayed so far I wouldnt be surprised.

Anyway MajorTom, what can I say other then "I told you so" and also that my offer still stands!

**SagesStone**

WarOne wrote:
It looks fishy at best.

Fishy enough for us to be singing sea shanties while fishing out of a fish shaped submarine with Captain Birdseye and a plate of fish fingers to use as bait.

**yakface**

Yodhrin wrote:

Regardless of how logical and understandable a move it may be, the takeaway from this for anyone thinking about scamming wargamers is that they will likely be able to get any negative characterisation of their "business" removed from the forums, or at least extremely heavily toned down(note how everything has become legalish; "alleged" this and "improper terms" that), because they know that the person ultimately responsible for Dakka as an entity is on the hook for any potential legal action, and so is disinclined to fight any C&Ds sent unless they're completely outrageous in their demands. Even if those C&Ds are highly suspect and appear to come from a company that doesn't exist in the form described.

And I might be mistaken, but I was under the impression that the other thread was about informing the community of the danger of dealing with Resin Forge, since it was made clear in the OP of that thread that Mandlebaum's association with Resin Forge was already confirmed. "Warning: doing business with this guy could well be a serious mistake" and "This guy who might possibly allegedly have not always fulfilled his orders according to some people has sent us a C&D" both link Mandlebaum and Resin Forge, but are two completely different characterisations of the facts, one of which might be more palatable to a lawyer, but doesn't do nearly the same job in conveying justifiable caution to anyone giving it a perfunctory browse.

And that is precisely the type of rhetoric that shouldn't be used.

The facts can and will speak for themselves without resorting to supposition to hype things up.

I don't want to say anymore except that I'm completely comfortable with replacing the information from that previous thread with this one here.

Anyone who wants to post the facts of firsthand experiences they have with any business, that will always be allowed on this site and will never be taken down. Its when people who don't have firsthand experience start jumping in and making claims that they don't personally have any knowledge of besides what they read from someone else that the problem starts.

**WingWong**

Defamation trololololololololol. Good luck with that. Heheh

**yakface**

alarmingrick wrote:
So, Yak is the latest "victim" of Mandelbaum?! Is the C & D from a real company?

Yeah, as I've said repeatedly now, it doesn't matter if Britcons is a sham company or not.

I am much more comfortable with the information being 100% verified and presented how it is in this thread than it was in the previous thread.

**master of ordinance**

Kilkrazy wrote:It doesn't actually matter if the Britcons is a front or not. The point is that a response had to be made to the C&D.

If it should turn out that the Britcons is a sham, that would be a reason to be suspicious about Resin Forge and its proprietors. However it is not proved.

yakface wrote:
alarmingrick wrote:
So, Yak is the latest "victim" of Mandelbaum?! Is the C & D from a real company?

Yeah, as I've said repeatedly now, it doesn't matter if Britcons is a sham company or not.

I am much more comfortable with the information being 100% verified and presented how it is in this thread than it was in the previous thread.

Right guys i can tell you right now that that website is a sham. Just from flicking through it i can tell you that the site has not been designed by a proffesional, nor anyone else. Hell my little brother could feasibly pump out a better website than that in a day or so on Adobe Dreamweaver 6, which i bet is the one they used.

gak well that proves it. The site just got taken down, its gone. Big con front, intended to scare, nothing more.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yup just to confirm it is definetly gone, officially taken down and the domain unclaimed. Sneaky Mandelbaum is sneaky.

**-Loki-**

This just keeps getting sadder.

**MajorTom11**

You don't mean to imply someone went to the trouble of setting up a fake company in Germany last June in order to try and scare off people discussing another interest of theirs or their history?? Surely not... That would be absurd. Who would do such a thing?

**infinite_array**

So... is there any legal action that can be taken for receiving what is essentially a threat being backed by a false company?

**mattyrm**

Both these threads have depressed me somewhat.

I have long felt like a relic with no place in our modern, wishy washy society. To be outspoken and blunt, to call things by their proper names without any "beating about the bush". Its something I've always subscribed to, and it just doesn't work in the modern world. This whole fiasco just proves it!

Clearly and obviously any impartial observer that has perused both threads knows what has gone on, but we can't t say so because of rules? Its analogous to literally hundreds of things in news and politicis and soceity at large that on a daily basis are detrimental to the world, and even though everyone knows it, nobody can talk about it/them/those.

If you are shameless enough, all you need to do it make a paper trail and you can get away with bloody murder.

The times we live in eh?

**sourclams**

master of ordinance wrote:
gak well that proves it. The site just got taken down, its gone. Big con front, intended to scare, nothing more.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yup just to confirm it is definetly gone, officially taken down and the domain unclaimed. Sneaky Mandelbaum is sneaky.

I love how over the top this thing was.

A website called 'bitcon' (bit... con) that has got paid expert super mercenaries that might or might not do house calls to people that people have problems with...

Subtle.

**MajorTom11**

In the end it doesn't really matter. The objective, first hand evidence is there to be had. This latest development is also something you can use to form your opinions. In my opinion, things are as clear as they have ever been.

**master of ordinance**

sourclams wrote:
master of ordinance wrote:
gak well that proves it. The site just got taken down, its gone. Big con front, intended to scare, nothing more.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yup just to confirm it is definetly gone, officially taken down and the domain unclaimed. Sneaky Mandelbaum is sneaky.

I love how over the top this thing was.

A website called 'bitcon' (bit... con) that has got paid expert super mercenaries that might or might not do house calls to people that people have problems with...

Subtle.

Exactly what i was thinking. Now the only question is: can we take legal action against him for this?

**Lorek**

I think what Yakface is too polite to say (I swear, that man never has negative thoughts about people!) is that this is done. Nothing else matters, as the original goal was:

Declare that one of the employees of Resin Forge is Daniel Mandelbaum

This has been confirmed by the C&D at the beginning of the thread. For those of you who are viewing this as a competition, the goal has been achieved and those wishing to achieve this goal have won.

There's no need to do anything further. There is a LOT of information available in the community from people who have had experience dealing with Daniel Mandelbaum, and those who are curious can go find more.

master of ordinance wrote:
Exactly what i was thinking. Now the only question is: can we take legal action against him for this?

There is no "we" here. There is only Yakface. Not even us moderators are involved.

**Kroothawk**

Britcons? For us non-native speakers: I know what Brits are, but what is a con?

**master of ordinance**

MajorTom11 wrote:
In the end it doesn't really matter. The objective, first hand evidence is there to be had. This latest development is also something you can use to form your opinions. In my opinion, things are as clear as they have ever been.

I am with you here Tom. <Please don't use that kind of terminology, we want to keep this thread on the level> I, quite frankly hope never to have dealings with him.

**Kilkrazy**

A "con" means a confidence trick which is a kind of fraud done by fooling people with false names, businesses, etc.

**Kroothawk**

Hmm, their ofiicial website just got deleted. "Domain Not Claimed"

**Empchild**

derek wrote:
reds8n wrote:

IIRC the C & D was in the form of an email.

Isn't that a legal no-no in the US? I somewhat recall one of the resident lawyers bringing that up in the Romeo vs TastyTaste C&D.

Yes generally if a time is in another state either a courier or sister firm in said state will deliver because lawyers will notorize everything as it starts the chain of custody. Generally speaking most law firms now a days pay for a local sheriffs deputy deliver the letter of intent as most people won't turn away a cop.

**mattyrm**

Kilkrazy wrote:
A "con" means a confidence trick which is a kind of fraud done by fooling people with false names, businesses, etc.

Woah, all this time I wasn't actually aware that con was short for confidence trick. I just figured conned was a word all of its own that meant like swindle or defraud or something.

**Evilref**

infinite_array wrote:
So... is there any legal action that can be taken for receiving what is essentially a threat being backed by a false company?

There is actually.

Assuming Mandelbaum is in the US. And Yakface is in the US, and depending on the states involved, then there might be SLAPP laws in place.

SLAPP laws are intended to stop pernicious threats of litigation 'I might sue you', they're commonly used in free speech cases such as this by lawyers acting for the defendants. In essence it's throwing down the gauntlet to the other side and saying 'step up'.

If, as looks likely here, there is no legal firm involved, unless Yakface is blanking/hiding any additional information, then the C&D can be entirely ignored. If a lawyer does appear, then I'm sure people can pass on the information to one of the many First Amendment blogs who will publicise it and, quite often, obtain cheap or even pro-bono representation.

Unless there are significant details left out, I strongly believe this is fake laywery shenanigans.

**BaronIveagh**

**Kilkrazy**

mattyrm wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
A "con" means a confidence trick which is a kind of fraud done by fooling people with false names, businesses, etc.

Woah, all this time I wasn't actually aware that con was short for confidence trick. I just figured conned was a word all of its own that meant like swindle or defraud or something.

It is a word of its own as well, meaning to take the watch on a ship.

"The con is yours, Mr Sulu."

**SlaveToDorkness**

Did the Britcon site have glaring spelling errors and lots of full caps? All my correspondence with RSO had both. Glad I saw the thread on Dakka and dodged that con-bullet.

**WingWong**

Further, surely one would use correct grammar in a C&D letter such as this?

**Aerethan**

I believe this was all easy to call from the second it happened. The internet is smarter than Daniel.

I agree that the old thread served it's purpose well enough. I've sent my full statement to key people involved, and should they give me the go ahead, I will post a full account of my personal experience with Daniel Mandelbaum and Resin Forge in this thread.

Yakface, if you wish I can email said account and the relevant evidence to you as well.