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@phone number: Ok, I stand corrected there Stupid Nazi Germans not knowing gak about American prefixes.

@Gamma310 (Dome) There is no proof posted by RF that they went to the HH weekender, no pictures that they took or anything. Yes they posted pictures/links to blog from others, but none of their own.

This situation ended up in this mess due to RF no answering questions, about a member of staff that had ripped people off in the past.

RF has handled this whole situation badly, trying to get a person fired from their job, called people/fb fan page Nazi-controlled evil corporation. When asked questions from other, calling them trolls and blocking them.

RF could have cleared all this up by being open and honest and answering the questions asked of them.

By question to RF is, show us the proof that they went to the HH weekender, tickets/flight tickets/hotel books etc etc. Someone even said they would buy them a drink at the hotel bar.

Sorry added more Dome.

Dome:

1) Thank you for clearing up what you received from RF, it seems that there was confusion (but to be honest, RF made this confusion worse)
2) What assurances have you been given as to why, given that you appeared to be the first person to request a Fulgrim from Daniel, are you now not in possesion of said model? Given that several persons were prepared to sell him theirs - why as customer Nr1 were you not given one as RF have claimed several Fulgrims have been shipped following the HH Weekender?
3) Do you know the history of the person(s) claiming to run RF? Are you, as a member of a community which is as tight knit as the gaming community is, comfortable with ordering from a perosn who has in the past, ran off with other gamers money, threatened serveral gamers with legal action and even tried to have a fellow gamer fired from their job simply for trying to get their money back?
4) Why would you order through a third party a full kit, given that the kit will be on general release shortly, and your order to the third party will only be from that general release? What is the benefit?
5) Do you believe that RF attended the HH Weekender? If so, why?

Many thanks.

Hogun wrote:
@Gamma310 (Dome) There is no proof posted by RF that they went to the HH weekender, no pictures that they took or anything. Yes they posted pictures/links to blog from others, but none of their own.

This situation ended up in this mess due to RF no answering questions, about a member of staff that had ripped people off in the past.

The things I talk about are some other problem. People who call me a fake and who talked about the orders. There were some rumors about orders and so on.. And I want to put things right as I said.

And IMO this whole thing escalated way to much...

RF has handled this whole situation badly, trying to get a person fired from their job, called people/fb fan page Nazi-controlled evil corporation. When asked questions from other, calling them trolls and blocking them.

RF could have cleared all this up by being open and honest and answering the questions asked of them.

By question to RF is, show us the proof that they went to the HH weekender, tickets/flight tickets/hotel books etc etc. Someone even said they would buy them a drink at the hotel bar.

Sorry added more Dome.

I agree that the communication hasn't worked very well. But as far as I can see both sides made mistakes and it's time to start all over again.

I will talk with RF and let's see if can play the link between both parties. IMO it's time to normalize the way both sides communicate.

No problem with the adding. Just a bit confused with all the questions and not quite sure if I got all.

And here the rest:

1) Thank you for clearing up what you received from RF, it seems that there was confusion (but to be honest, RF made this confusion worse)

Both sides made it worse.. The whole affair has escalated.....

2) What assurances have you been given as to why, given that you appeared to be the first person to request a Fulgrim from Daniel, are you now not in possesion of said model? Given that several persons were prepared to sell him theirs - why as customer Nr1 were you not given one?

As far as I know there was someone who talked the people out of selling their Flugrim to RF.

3) Do you know the history of the person(s) claiming to run RF? Are you, as a member of a community which is as tight knit as the gaming community is, comfortable with ordering from a perosn who has in the past, ran off with other gamers money, threatened serveral gamers with legal action and even tried to have a fellow gamer fired from their job simply for trying to get their money back?

As you may have seen I'm from Switzerland so I can't say to much about these accusations. I don't know who owns the company, but I never had any problem so far... And before all these accusations are proved I won't punish them just on rumors... And to be honest IMO everyone should get a second chance.. I'm a happy customer and why should I change then?

4) Why would you order through a third party a full kit, given that the kit will be on general release shortly, and your order to the third party will only be from that general release? What is the benefit?

I'm waiting since several months for the Palantines. I saw an opportunity to get them earlier and I took it... Is there any fault with that? I don't think so
My patience is overworn and I want them asap. Total FW Fanboy

5) Do you believe that RF attended the HH Weekender? If so, why?

Counterquestion: Why shouldn't I?
They told me they would attend the HH weekender and I think they did.

Dome:
"As far as I know there was someone who talked the people out of selling their Flugrim to RF."

Care to elaborate? This is the first time this has been mentioned.

As far as I know there was someone who talked the people out of selling their Flugrim to RF.

That would be assuming that people other than Resin Forge actually knew these people. So you think that somebody (probably he will say it was the Nazi Lexicanum?) managed to track down 8 people (number given by RF itself), people who were already supporting RF as the whole questions were already in the open - and convince/ threaten ALL of them not to hand over a single miniature to Resin Forge? Does that really sound plausible?

EDIT: and no, the names and identities of these people were not all publicly accessible, we kept a very close look on that. And the ones that were accessible, we did not try to contact either.

@Dome you missed question 5 from Art....

"Counterquestion: Why shouldn't I?
They told me they would attend the HH weekender and I think they did. "

No evidence of going, no 'RF' Stamped' photos of what was a major FW / BL event (given that they're fans, dont you find this a little odd / off?), can't even produce ticket stubbs if they dont want to show photos for any reason - all adds up to be a complete tissue of lies and more lies.

I'm glad you've not been ripped off - you're one of the lucky ones. but do yourself a favour and read the testimonies from those who have been systematically scammed and harrassed by one of the 'owners' and you'll see why there's a mob with pitchforks who have beef with Daniel.

Art Steventon wrote:Dome:
"As far as I know there was someone who talked the people out of selling their Flugrim to RF."

Care to elaborate? This is the first time this has been mentioned.

Havn't asked to much about that. But I can do that if you wan't.

Inquisitor S. wrote:

As far as I know there was someone who talked the people out of selling their Flugrim to RF.

That would be assuming that people other than Resin Forge actually knew these people. So you think that somebody (probably he will say it was the Nazi Lexicanum?) managed to track down 8 people (number given by RF itself), people who were already supporting RF as the whole questions were already in the open - and convince/ threaten ALL of them not to hand over a single miniature to Resin Forge? Does that really sound plausible?

I would prefer it if we could keep our communication accusation free Thank you.
I could belive that. Imagine your at the weekender and ready to sell your Fulgrim to a "stranger" who claims to give them to customers. Few minutes later someone makes a rumor about a bad company who cheats their customers. Would you sell it? Don't think so.. About the number of 8, could you present a source for that. I personally don't like rumors. Thank you

EDIT: and no, the names and identities of these people were not all publicly accessible, we kept a very close look on that. And the ones that were accessible, we did not try to contact either.

I don't get that sentence. Or better what it relates to. I don't get the cohesion.. Still not my native language.


Damned. quoted it the wrong way



So many posts.. try to answer as much as possible

Dome - it just seems.... odd that a piece of information such as not being able to get the Fulgrim's due to others being warned off hasnt been mentioned previously - surely you see this?

It's a pretty vital snippet that would have solved quite a few murmurs against RF (and would have been in their benefit).

He said only pictures stamped RF were taken by Resin Forge, but never posted any.

He says he got Fulgrims and shipped them, but didn't ship them to the first person that ordered them.

He claims that people talked everybody out of selling him Fulgrims, even though after the event he still mentioned buying them.

This is all the classic pattern of excuses that start to contradict themselves with that person.

I was one of the lucky ones that got what he ordered from his operation as Three Stage Studios, so we know that during the build up people do get full or partial orders. But the communications we are seeing now are a mirror image of the "collapse" stage of his enterprises.

Art Steventon wrote:Dome - it just seems.... odd that a piece of information such as not being able to get the Fulgrim's due to others being warned off hasnt been mentioned previously - surely you see this?

It's a pretty vital snippet that would have solved quite a few murmurs against RF (and would have been in their benefit).

Yes it would have helped them. As far as I know they have tried to get people selling their Fulgrim. The contacted them in advance by FB and made a meeting point. But only one of those who saif he would sell his Fulgrim showed up there

d-usa wrote:He said only pictures stamped RF were taken by Resin Forge, but never posted any.

He says he got Fulgrims and shipped them, but didn't ship them to the first person that ordered them.

He claims that people talked everybody out of selling him Fulgrims, even though after the event he still mentioned buying them.

This is all the classic pattern of excuses that start to contradict themselves with that person.

I was one of the lucky ones that got what he ordered from his operation as Three Stage Studios, so we know that during the build up people do get full or partial orders. But the communications we are seeing now are a mirror image of the "collapse" stage of his enterprises.

Actually I told them to wait with shipping one to me I wanted to wait on the Palantines at Origin.. so this isn't that misterious

About the pictures, as far as I know they havn't posted their pictures with them on it because they don't want that somebody knows waht they look like( I can understand that..)...

Gamma310 wrote:
About the pictures, as far as I know they havn't posted their pictures with them on it because they don't want that somebody knows waht they look like( I can understand that..)...

I think you misunderstand, they've not posted a single picture that hasn't been taken from another site. There are no photos of the event unique to RF, which suggests they weren't there to take any.

As for them not wanting to personally be in any of their photos, well I would say 'what have they got to hide?', but as anyone following Daniel Mandelbaum's antics over the last several years, he's got a lot of reason to hide.

About the pictures, as far as I know they havn't posted their pictures with them on it because they don't want that somebody knows waht they look like( I can understand that..)...

So they couldn't take photos like the ones shown, where there is no chance of the 'owners' being in the photos?
They couldn't take photos of minis? Or of posters?
Wow, how did Loken et al, cope,doing that whilst not being in the photos...

Sorry for the sarcasm, but it's such a flimsy excuse it should be used as cellophane.

Ok so sorry i've been at work and sans any Laptop (i decided to do some conversion work rather than sit at a keyboard since RF at least opened a dialogue )

so at 7,13 am

We did not confuse you with Lex. We have no way to defend ourselves to him or his sites. He makes news up, then reports it as facts. When confronted he says "alleged".

We knew based on your other cut and paste for us it could be posted so he could see it.

I suggest he contacts Dome before he makes claims he knows nothing of. Dome himself even thinks, actually, im sure Dome will speak for himself if Lex actually contacts him instead of making up his own opinion on stuff once again taken out of context.

What was asked was, WILL PALATINES BE AT ORIGINS. NOT IF THEY HAD SHIPPED.

Thank you for the relay to him. We wont both to see how he twists it like he does everything. Even his own fans are getting tired of it. (Again, many screen shots to prove it.)

at 13.07

We did ask permission to post this.

http://imgur.com/a/exHPs#J271yGd

Tell Majortom he was wrong, once again. And yes, FW will be posting in the next week or 2. Contact Tris to verify what I have said.

and then at 16.13

http://imgur.com/a/exHPs

Thank you for being unbaised like you said you would. There were doubts but you lived up to your word even if you don't trust us. That shows character others seem to lack.
Please share this on dakka. And once again, people can call Tris at FW to verify it. He will most likely get annoyed after more then 1-2 calls so maybe pick someone on dakka that can call.

again unedited (sorry if some are a bit stable door after the horse had bolted but as i say i was away from the boards for the day and some of what was sent to me seems to have broken from other sources )

Not speaking as a moderator:

@Gamma310, some key reasons why there is such a lot of distrust of Resin Forge and Daniel Mandelbaum are;

Mandelbaum has run a series of internet only bits/conversion businesses like Resin Forge, each of which has failed after roughly six to nine months leaving customers out of pocket.

Resin Forge (or Mandelbaum?) has not given straight answers to easy questions such as, "What is your business registration number?", or "Where are your pictures from Horus Heresy Weekend that you say you went to?".

If you want to open a constructive dialogue between Resin Forge and the people who do not trust it, the best thing would be to convince them to give answers to these questions.

No-one believes that Resin Forge went to HH Weekend, took a load of pictures, and made sure to include an identifiable member of staff very large in the middle of each one, so that they cannot publish them even with cropping.

@Dome this is from your first post at 16.15pm

Now to the Palantines. RF asked because of me on the FW page about the Palantines and Fulgrim. There were some missunderstandings and it all got mixed up. It were two different questions:

1. When is the Fulgrim going to be sent, that was ordered at the HH weekender?

2. When will the Palantines released? And will there be any of them available at Origins?

The asked about Origins because I, yes it was again my idea, because I hoped to get some on this way. I really love the look of thse and I really need them! But FW has said there wont be any Palantines on Origins.
Because of this RF gives me a refund for the Palantines. But I still get my Fulgrim.

Now this is from a follow up post, at 18.13

Actually I told them to wait with shipping one to me I wanted to wait on the Palantines at Origin.. so this isn't that mysterious


There may have been some confusion here. But for someone who wants Fulgrim asap. I find it hard to believe that you will wait for the Palantines at Origin when you have quoted from FW that there wont be any at Origin in your first comment on this forum. People can pop over to the Forge Worlds facebook page and see that they have said there will NOT be any of the models at Origin.
Plus with the refund RF has given you, you'll have to repay.

So someone waiting for Fulgrim who wants it asap and the Palantines will be waiting for a long time. As there will be none at Origin.

And yes, FW will be posting in the next week or 2. Contact Tris to verify what I have sa

Forgeworld the company will make a public statement saying that RF went to the HH weekender? Or that Forgeworld is sure RF is legit and Mandelbaum-free? Well, that would be a novum, already looking forward to that. Can you ask where that statement will be published?

So you told them to wait on the Pals but they gave you a refund for the Pals?

So you're getting them free?

Maybe I'm just being dense, but what is the statement from Forgeworld supposed to achieve...?

 insaniak wrote:
Maybe I'm just being dense, but what is the statement from Forgeworld supposed to achieve...?

All I can see it proving is that they communicated on Facebook concerning the availability of certain stock. It does not appear to indicate a long standing professional relationship, nor did it show that they would vouch for Resin Forge's bona fides.

@Insaniak -

Resin Forge has presented this situation as if Dakka (which they treat as some kind of singular unified group, not a forum of peers) is ongoingly accusing them of either recasting or having no stock, which is of course not the case, and is of course very distracting and misleading from the real issues he/they refuse to answer.

I think in the earliest pages of this thread, someone made allusions to recasting, which in general we all agreed was very thin at best and largely irrelevant to the real issue, trust and honesty.

Just another smokescreen. Just another spin to pretend as if Dakka is one entity made up of one unified voice, attacking this poor innocent while completely ignoring a giant pile of objective evidence... at least until the accidentally admit it's true then delete the post lol.

@the swedish gentleman.
If you say we shouldn't question them over the HH weekender and then say you are satisfied based on literally zero evidence to even hint otherwise, LITERALLY ZERO, then I am afraid I have very little interest in anything you have to say. I mean come on.

If you actually bothered to review the track history here, you would see you were not the first white knight duped into defending them based on no evidence either, or sent into this very forum to distract and attempt to derail the discussion.

As far as I can tell the FW statement is meant to serve along with his "friends in high places" comment. As in "Look here FW are backing me up don't you feel silly now dakka/lex ninjas! You better stop bullying poor little old me or FW will make a statement to defend a small resale business that's barely been around for a year"

Gamma310 wrote:
I agree that the communication hasn't worked very well. But as far as I can see both sides made mistakes and it's time to start all over again.

You're making the same mistake that RF are making, in assuming that there are 'sides'.

There aren't. This whole thing started because several people felt that potential customers of Resin Forge should know who they were dealing with, based on that person's previous business history. This isn't some organised mob witch-hunt. Any allegations people have made, here or elsewhere, have been based on their own observations and/or supposition.

The really ridiculous part is that Resin Forge could have stamped on the whole thing right at the start, before jumping to all the Cease & Desist nonsense that just proved the original claims and got everyone even more worked up over the whole thing, by simply releasing a statement that included their business registration details and saying that yes, Daniel Mandelbaum was one of the owners of the company, that they are aware of his past history, and that anyone who felt they were owed something should contact them and they would do what they could to make it right.

Instead, they denied Daniel was anything to do with the company right up until the point where they lodged a police report over supposed harassment in Daniel's name, tried to scare people off with legal threats, and to this date have still not shown any evidence that they are an actual, registered business.

The recasting issue was never the core of the problem. Nor were the claims that they didn't have stock (I'm not even sure where they got that complaint from). At the end of the day, even whether or not Kim and Jason actually exist is really not that important. All of this silliness stemmed from Resin Forge's complete refusal to behave in a professional manner, and their continued attempts to confuse the issues.

The simple, basic problem at work here is that if you act like you have something to hide, people will think that you have something to hide.

rigeld2 wrote:So you told them to wait on the Pals but they gave you a refund for the Pals?

So you're getting them free?

No, if you read my post very carefully you can see that I only ordered them by RF because I had the hope they would be released at the weekender or Origins. Now I know they wont be released then so I order them by mself when they will be available.

Hogun wrote:@Dome this is from your first post at 16.15pm

Now to the Palantines. RF asked because of me on the FW page about the Palantines and Fulgrim. There were some missunderstandings and it all got mixed up. It were two different questions:

1. When is the Fulgrim going to be sent, that was ordered at the HH weekender?

2. When will the Palantines released? And will there be any of them available at Origins?

The asked about Origins because I, yes it was again my idea, because I hoped to get some on this way. I really love the look of thse and I really need them! But FW has said there wont be any Palantines on Origins.
Because of this RF gives me a refund for the Palantines. But I still get my Fulgrim.

Now this is from a follow up post, at 18.13

Actually I told them to wait with shipping one to me I wanted to wait on the Palantines at Origin.. so this isn't that mysterious


There may have been some confusion here. But for someone who wants Fulgrim asap. I find it hard to believe that you will wait for the Palantines at Origin when you have quoted from FW that there wont be any at Origin in your first comment on this forum. People can pop over to the Forge Worlds facebook page and see that they have said there will NOT be any of the models at Origin.
Plus with the refund RF has given you, you'll have to repay.

So someone waiting for Fulgrim who wants it asap and the Palantines will be waiting for a long time. As there will be none at Origin.

I want my Fulgrim & the Palantines asap. But as you may know shipping from USA to Switzerland isn't for free so it was my intention to get them together. And so i decided to wait 2-3 weeks longer to get (hopefully) both together. Didn't work both it was worth a try

MajorTom11 wrote:
@the swedish gentleman.
If you say we shouldn't question them over the HH weekender and then say you are satisfied based on literally zero evidence to even hint otherwise, LITERALLY ZERO, then I am afraid I have very little interest in anything you have to say. I mean come on.

If you actually bothered to review the track history here, you would see you were not the first white knight duped into defending them based on no evidence either, or sent into this very forum to distract and attempt to derail the discussion.

Thanks for reading my post.. If you really had read my post you would know that I'm from Switzerland not Sweden.. Kind of ignorant though..
I havn't been sent here as you say. I have facebook and could see the conflict and came to this thread by myself. Here I saw some nice little 'facts' about made that were not true. I cam here to get the things about me right.

I never said you shouldn't question them about the weekender. And IMO it's kind of rude to implement things that arn't right at all... You accuse me of saying things I havn't, you didn't even read my post carefully and in the end you say wahtever I say doesn't matter...

If you live in Switzerland Gamma, then if you ordered through an American storefront, you'd get totally mashed with the foreign exchange, I mean changing currency 3 times instead of just going through Forgeworld yourself....I also would ask why you ordered from the USA when you can get it sent to you faster via a UK company?

The Swiss deal via Euros right? And royal mail can mail straight to you faster then USP?

Small things like that make you seem.....a little implausible.

 Doctadeth wrote:
If you live in Switzerland Gamma, then if you ordered through an American storefront, you'd get totally mashed with the foreign exchange, I mean changing currency 3 times instead of just going through Forgeworld yourself....I also would ask why you ordered from the USA when you can get it sent to you faster via a UK company?

The Swiss deal via Euros right? And royal mail can mail straight to you faster then USP?

Small things like that make you seem.....a little implausible.

Switzerland is not part of the Eurpean Union, so it doesn't change a thing if I order from UK, USA or anywhere else on this planet. And the shipping from UK or USA doesn't make a big difference in time or costs. Most of the mail hangs a the custom duty for about a week here in Switzerland..

We deal in Swiss francs and because we are not part of the European Union shippment from anywhere in the world is more or less the same... Sometimes if I order something from China it is faster then from the UK. So you may understand my situation better..


And BTW I pay everything by paypal.. so currencies aren't a biig problem...

Switzerland uses Francs Helvetica.

It is not an EU country.

Import/Export to the EU can be pretty expensive, though I should think the postage from UK to Switzerland would be quicker than from US.

If I understand it correctly, Gamma310 has received a refund from Resin Forge and will order direct from Forge World.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Switzerland uses Francs Helvetica.

It is not an EU country.

Import/Export to the EU can be pretty expensive, though I should think the postage from UK to Switzerland would be quicker than from US.

If I understand it correctly, Gamma310 has received a refund from Resin Forge and will order direct from Forge World.

You are right. I got my refund because there won't be Palantines at Origin :( So I'll have to take care by myself to get one.. Why can't FW release them..

Except for the shipping though.. It's kind of crappy here and sometimes it takes ages for a letter to get from Germany to Switzerland while a big package from China to me takes about two weeks.. Customs duty sucks...