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 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Why believe him, though?

I can see how people are fooled by a plausible bit of social engineering -- i.e. clever lies -- but how plausible is it that "a forum" has got someone's ex-directory phone number, issued death threats, and the threatened person has not contacted the police? Haven't you got to be rather simple to be taken in by such an unlikely story?

Isn't there something basically strange in the idea that "a forum" would decide to harass a bits company for no reason?

Don't people want to look at things for themselves?

People like to root for the underdog. They don't want pesky "facts" to get in the way of that because everyone cheers a martyr. I wish that was just cynicism.

Quote for truth.

"Of 40k, Fraud, Dakka, and Parrots."

Arschbombe
Not sure how many of you are familiar with the exploits of someone named Daniel Mandelbaum. Apparently this individual has run a series of 40k-oriented business ventures offering various hobby services like custom models and conversions. Each business has imploded under accusations of fraud. He has use mutliple aliases and accomplices in his endeavors. There is a dedicated team of folks on DakkaDakka who track him and out him whenever he pops up.

The latest business venture is called ResinForge. The owners sent a fake C&D letter to DakkaDakka to try to shut them up. Dakka has an 80+page thread (started by the estimable Yakface himself) on this one trying to pin down exactly who owns and operates the site.

Today I think the effort sort of jumped the shark when the one of the posters was able to link Mandelbaum with the current operator(s) because of some ambient sounds in a video released by the site and a myspace page of the couple's Parrot, Mortachai.

As is so often the case, you can't make this stuff up.

Emphyrion
yeah, i got a message from them asking me to like their page and them wanting to have a 'statement' on our show. Declined.

http://the11thcompany.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=5686&p=56301

Point taken over the 'mother' issue!
Now, onto phase 2 - if Dakkites see RF biased posts on FB - report em up here. As can be seen over the last few days, the simple act of rebuttal by others can close down the 'oh RF are so hard done by' acts and shut down Daniel's further attempts at scamming (allegedly).

Wonder if somebody could obtain the message that was sent from RF to the guy from the11thcompany...

 Kilkrazy wrote:
People could come on the forums to read the story and make up their mind after seeing the whole thing from two different angles.

But there are none so blind as those who will not see.

point of fact logged on to face book today the following is an actual conversation on facebook message

*************** has liked Resin Forge
ME....Dude did you just like RF ????lol
G....... Yeah they seem a nice company why?
ME......Launches into explanation of (at that time 78 ) pages of evidence at their exploits
G........ah that's why their closing they got death threats against there family
Me ......DAFUQ did you just read!!!!!!!!!!!

though i like my new psychic powers of evil if only i had developed them during my last marriage to find out her new boyfriends phone number through his facebook posts !

 Art Steventon wrote:
Point taken over the 'mother' issue!
Now, onto phase 2 - if Dakkites see RF biased posts on FB - report em up here. As can be seen over the last few days, the simple act of rebuttal by others can close down the 'oh RF are so hard done by' acts and shut down Daniel's further attempts at scamming (allegedly).

Why bother.

Honestly, why the hell bother.

There has been 80+ pages on this thread and a similarly epic thread proceeded this one, if people are really stupid enough to take them at face value, not investigate for themselves and be stupid enough to believe the utterly bizarre string of bs Resin Forge have spewed, perhaps they deserve to enjoy a dose of Mandelbaum's antics.

The emperor is stark bollock naked and we still have halfwits complimenting him on his new clothes and cursing us for trying to say otherwise, perhaps we should leave them to it?

You can lead the sheep to water but you cannot make them think...

Can we please stop with the derogatory comments? You can't very well complain about Resin Forge tarring Dakka with the one-eyed brush and then go and do the same thing in return.

The worst that the people defending Resin Forge are guilty of is being taken in by a sob story. There's no need to be insulting about it.

 insaniak wrote:
Can we please stop with the derogatory comments? You can't very well complain about Resin Forge tarring Dakka with the one-eyed brush and then go and do the same thing in return.

The worst that the people defending Resin Forge are guilty of is being taken in by a sob story. There's no need to be insulting about it.

I completely agree. Many of these people only know of RF's side of this.

There is no point in insulting them. There are a few of them (Tallon Amaya being one) who just refuse to accept all of the proof posted and still think that it's some baseless accusations and a witch hunt. There's no helping people like that.

The worst that the people defending Resin Forge are guilty of is being taken in by a sob story. There's no need to be insulting about it.

This could stem from the fact that most people heading over to our FB page after being whipped up by RF come in frothing at the mouth, spittle flying, expletives blurting forth. This kind of people can expect nothing but ridicule and a bloody nose *shrug*

Kevin ‏@D6_Hobbyist 27 Jun
Now Resin Forge has to close its doors due to death threats from users on DakkaDakka? Good job Dakka. Really raising the bar. #bandakka
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Congrats on your own (failed) hate hashtag dakka

 Inquisitor S. wrote:

Kevin ‏@D6_Hobbyist 27 Jun
Now Resin Forge has to close its doors due to death threats from users on DakkaDakka? Good job Dakka. Really raising the bar. #bandakka
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Congrats on your own (failed) hate hashtag dakka

Is he a random person, or is that D6 hobbyist thing a recognised group in the gaming world over in the US? And is he actually a part of that, or is he just talking to them. I don't understand how twitter works, could someone interpret please?

 motyak wrote:

Is he a random person, or is that D6 hobbyist thing a recognised group in the gaming world over in the US? And is he actually a part of that, or is he just talking to them. I don't understand how twitter works, could someone interpret please?

It's a random person. The D6 hobbyist thing is just his Twitter username.

Cheers. How is this some kind of development then, a whole bunch of people have been clamouring from their side of the argument for us to go away forever.

If the twitter thing still exists, people could send video links, Jason/Kim phone call sound files and stuff on that channel

 Inquisitor S. wrote:

Kevin ‏@D6_Hobbyist 27 Jun
Now Resin Forge has to close its doors due to death threats from users on DakkaDakka? Good job Dakka. Really raising the bar. #bandakka
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I feel, on occasion, that there ought to be a few induction tutorials provided by ISPs when someone signs up for broadband. Things like: "Search Engines - What Are They, Really?", "Life, Love and the Pursuit of Low Latency", and "Essentialist Statements and You - A Guide to Looking Cool and Edgy to Your Friends on Social Media". Looks like this fellow at least saw the last one.

Please note that "DakkaDakka" does not have an official position on this whole affair other than the one laid out by Yakface in his original posting about the C&D letter.

In my own view I don't think there is much point arguing with people on Twitter and the like. It doesn't affect users here personally, so I don't worry about it.

This thread still delivers. Please RSO, keep entertaining us.

Dakka isn't a monolithic organization dedicated to witch-hunts and victim blaming?

I guess I've been doing it wrong.

 Kroothawk wrote:
If the twitter thing still exists, people could send video links, Jason/Kim phone call sound files and stuff on that channel

I doubt that would do all that much good. The problem is, you have to be initiated into literally hundreds of thread pages' worth of backstory to know the depths of perfidy involved. Also take into account the (apparent) fact that, no matter what shenanigans are going on with the license, the ownership, etc., Resin Forge the "company" doesn't appear to have screwed anyone out of any cash. We know it's questionable at best because the community's familiar with what occurred last time the founder of it surfaced, but it's pretty rough if you're an outsider and don't have a couple afternoons to burn reading through thread posts to bring yourself up to speed.

The accusation isn't that RF screwed anyone.

The issue is that they were in business with someone who has screwed people out of money, and the absolute strangeness that ensued when this was pointed out.

 Monster Rain wrote:
The accusation isn't that RF screwed anyone.

The issue is that they were in business with someone who has screwed people out of money, and the absolute strangeness that ensued when this was pointed out.

I'm aware.

But I don't think it's reasonable to expect a bunch of late teenagers/early twentysomethings to get freaked out over the lack of a business license when they've grown up with people randomly selling gak on the internet all their lives, at least not without the context of what came before Resin Forge. Tracking down that context is going to seem like more trouble than it's worth to a lot of them, given that it's spread through several different very long threads on a site they apparently don't visit, so they're going to take the position that Monolith Dakka is just beating up poor ol' Bird-Girl over something that didn't hurt anybody.

Easy to forget during all the hubbub, but RF was guilty of things itself:

1. Trying to get Aerethan fired
2. Attempting to recast the french gentlemans products
3. Lying to their customers on multiple fronts, including the HH weekender, who the owners were, and whether or not Daniel Mandelbaum was still connected to the business (he was).
4. Pre-selling items they had absolutely no right, or ability to guarantee, essentially taking 'free money' from their audience by lying about it, as they would have no to purchase said items from RF otherwise.
5. Lying about the owners real names
6. Refusing to provide information that their business was legal.
7. Harassment and outright lies about anyone questioning them.

Also not to forget that since they refused to disclose any evidence whatsoever that they were operating a legal company they are formally responsible for Mandelbaums phonebook length list of past crimes and scams.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Easy to forget during all the hubbub, but RF was guilty of things itself:

1. Trying to get Aerethan fired
2. Attempting to recast the french gentlemans products
3. Lying to their customers on multiple fronts, including the HH weekender, who the owners were, and whether or not Daniel Mandelbaum was still connected to the business (he was).
4. Pre-selling items they had absolutely no right, or ability to guarantee, essentially taking 'free money' from their audience by lying about it, as they would have no to purchase said items from RF otherwise.
4. Lying about the owners real names
5. Refusing to provide information that their business was legal.
6. Harassment and outright lies about anyone questioning them.

I think "guilty" is a pretty strong word to use for all but number one and possibly number two - I missed that one, somehow, in this incredibly long thread - but either way, I think you might have missed the point of what I was saying. None of that is going to appear to a non-Dakkaite as anything but your word vs. his word. I'm firmly in the "Mandlebaum did all that stuff," camp, but I've been following this for months now. Someone who hasn't been isn't going to have any evidence either way unless they dive into hundreds of posts, and a lot of it is stuff they likely wouldn't care about. I always thought the HH weekender stuff was pretty weak, personally, for example.

Also not to forget that since they refused to disclose any evidence whatsoever that they were operating a legal company they are formally responsible for Mandelbaums phonebook length list of past crimes and scams.

Not really. If they are in fact not a licensed business, then Mandlebaum would be responsible for Mandlebaum's crimes. If RF is a licensed business and just haven't shown evidence of being so, that doesn't automatically make them no longer a licensed business. I personally believe RF is not and never was licensed, but stating that their lack of proof to the contrary is positive evidence that they're not registered is tricky. I have no idea if Texas law requires a business to turn over its registration number on demand.

The point was that someone who has not read the hundreds of pages involving Mandlebaum on this forum has no reason to believe one side over the other; if they've never frequented Dakka prior to doing business with RF, they're likely just getting all their info on the conflict from RF's Facebook page. If I was going to make a pretty minor purchase from an online retailer that had, as far as I was aware, no history of failing to deliver, and Facebook burn accounts kept trying to get me to read an excruciatingly long thread on some forum pointing out why said retailer was so bad, there's not much of a chance I'd do it. I'd probably just risk the fifty bucks.

None of which is to say, "Aw, shucks, RF ain't so bad." It's more to address the incredulous head-shaking over how people could possibly be on RF's side.

 Seaward wrote:

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Easy to forget during all the hubbub, but RF was guilty of things itself:

1. Trying to get Aerethan fired
2. Attempting to recast the french gentlemans products
3. Lying to their customers on multiple fronts, including the HH weekender, who the owners were, and whether or not Daniel Mandelbaum was still connected to the business (he was).
4. Pre-selling items they had absolutely no right, or ability to guarantee, essentially taking 'free money' from their audience by lying about it, as they would have no to purchase said items from RF otherwise.
4. Lying about the owners real names
5. Refusing to provide information that their business was legal.
6. Harassment and outright lies about anyone questioning them.

I think "guilty" is a pretty strong word to use for all but number one and possibly number two - I missed that one, somehow, in this incredibly long thread - but either way, I think you might have missed the point of what I was saying. None of that is going to appear to a non-Dakkaite as anything but your word vs. his word. I'm firmly in the "Mandlebaum did all that stuff," camp, but I've been following this for months now. Someone who hasn't been isn't going to have any evidence either way unless they dive into hundreds of posts, and a lot of it is stuff they likely wouldn't care about. I always thought the HH weekender stuff was pretty weak, personally, for example.

Also not to forget that since they refused to disclose any evidence whatsoever that they were operating a legal company they are formally responsible for Mandelbaums phonebook length list of past crimes and scams.

Not really. If they are in fact not a licensed business, then Mandlebaum would be responsible for Mandlebaum's crimes. If RF is a licensed business and just haven't shown evidence of being so, that doesn't automatically make them no longer a licensed business. I personally believe RF is not and never was licensed, but stating that their lack of proof to the contrary is positive evidence that they're not registered is tricky. I have no idea if Texas law requires a business to turn over its registration number on demand.

The point was that someone who has not read the hundreds of pages involving Mandlebaum on this forum has no reason to believe one side over the other; if they've never frequented Dakka prior to doing business with RF, they're likely just getting all their info on the conflict from RF's Facebook page. If I was going to make a pretty minor purchase from an online retailer that had, as far as I was aware, no history of failing to deliver, and Facebook burn accounts kept trying to get me to read an excruciatingly long thread on some forum pointing out why said retailer was so bad, there's not much of a chance I'd do it. I'd probably just risk the fifty bucks.

None of which is to say, "Aw, shucks, RF ain't so bad." It's more to address the incredulous head-shaking over how people could possibly be on RF's side.

I dont know, I don't think there is much need to equivocate given the evidence personally.

Although, I think that Dan seems a thoroughly splendid chap personally.

I also think that Hitler might have been a pretty good bloke once you got to know him, Fiat make really reliable cars, and the capital of France is Stoke-Upon-Trent.

In the absence of documentation that by definition must be in place, and when the withholding of said documents only damages the people withholding them, one is left with little option but to assume said documents do not exist until proven otherwise.

Is it rock solid? Nope. But at a certain point the evidence becomes overwhelming through both facts at hand and lack of certain facts.

I'm sorry but the rest of the list is either in the so overwhelming and they could have easily dispelled the simple application of evidence that would have been eminently easy to produce. It's not hard to prove you are registered, or that you attended the HH weekender. It's just not.

Is Kim Hernandez her real name? Nope. How do we know? A ton of evidence provided by herself in various slip-ups and forgotten social accounts. It's Stephanie Hernandez. Wife of Daniel Mandelbaum, as indicated by her La Petite Gamine social profile, the obituary note and as sad as it is, the myspace page of a bloody parrot lol.

Did the have the right to promise Fulgrims from an event they weren't attending, and advertise pre-selling them at an unlimited quantity? Nope. That's a lie. Even if they were there it was a lie and it was a lie designed to put money in their pockets under false pretences.

As for harassment, ask people they had the emails of, or anyone who dared ask polite questions on their FB page if that is up for question either.

Sorry Seaward I know you are trying to be the 'voice of reason' and establish legitimacy, but you aren't going to accomplish much throwing doubt on items that are beyond doubt, or grasping onto the 2% chance that despite all the evidence to the contrary the few items that don't have huge point blank final proof are also worth ignoring despite having so, so, so, so much to point otherwise.

Also don't forget the very purpose of this thread- they had a C&D sent to Dakka when the identity of the owner (Daniel Mandelbaum) was posted.

That C&D was sent from a person/company whose credentials were hijacked. The whole thing has "FISHY" written across it in giant, red, bold letters . And that's without even bringing in any of the owner's past history into it.

And then, when the C&D was posted and Mandelbaum's name was definitely tied to the company name, he supposedly "quit"... yet put his significant other up to doing a video while wearing a mask claiming his innocence.

You can't make this stuff up, and the weirdness stands on it's own merits without knowledge of past shenanigans, imo.

 RiTides wrote:
Also don't forget the very purpose of this thread- they had a C&D sent to Dakka when the identity of the owner (Daniel Mandelbaum) was posted.

That C&D was sent from a person/company whose credentials were hijacked. The whole thing has "FISHY" written across it in giant, red, bold letters . And that's without even bringing in any of the owner's past history into it.

And then, when the C&D was posted and Mandelbaum's name was definitely tied to the company name, he supposedly "quit"... yet put his significant other up to doing a video while wearing a mask claiming his innocence.

You can't make this stuff up, and the weirdness stands on it's own merits without knowledge of past shenanigans, imo.

Pretty much.

Daniel Mandelbaum, Stephanie Hernandez, and the Resin Forge Facebook Page gave us all of the evidence on a silver platter. All because DM felt for some reason to not just slink away and reappear a few months later like he usually does.

Thing that gets me is why the chap even bothers any more? I mean if this is him trying to run a reputable business and it is then going wrong and him panicking and running, he has had enough swings of the bat by now to just give up.

If it is all a big elaborate internet con (do I have to put allegedly in here?) then he obviously isn't very good at that either.

I mean I know everyone likes a trier and all but seriously, (Mandelbum or whatever his name is) give up, go get a minimum wage job somewhere and get on with your life and save all this. It saves others hassle and saves you the stress.

If you really need all the drama and conspiracy ect then just blame Obama or alien lizards. Life is too short!

To the rest of you, Thank you! Thank you for watching your fellow gamers backs and for keeping this thread going, it gets better by the day!

On June 27, 9:07 am I posted the following question on Resin Forge's Facebook page, on the thread with the clown from It, "Did the death threat come from a member of the Dakka community or from another source? Can Resin Forge please clarify?"

I can longer view the thread, but as of yesterday there was still not a response.