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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/21 21:45:45
Subject: Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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It's a little troubling that history appears to be repeating itself. She does appear to have past form in this area.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 15:22:05
Subject: Re:Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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So... Lerner took the 5th today... that's her right.
Just as we have a right to "interpret" that behavior...
Bear in mind, Lerner is pleading the 5th out of fear of being prosecuted by Obama's DOJ or his US attorneys. It has to be really bad.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 15:41:42
Subject: Re:Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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Fixture of Dakka
CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence
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whembly wrote: Bear in mind, Lerner is pleading the 5th out of fear of being prosecuted by Obama's DOJ or his US attorneys. It has to be really bad.
That is an assumption, and though it is one possibility she could also be doing it to protect others.
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Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 15:44:34
Subject: Re:Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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CptJake wrote: whembly wrote: Bear in mind, Lerner is pleading the 5th out of fear of being prosecuted by Obama's DOJ or his US attorneys. It has to be really bad.
That is an assumption, and though it is one possibility she could also be doing it to protect others.
Of course not. She's clearly covering up for the administration, at the threat of being sent to a FEMA reeducation camp!
/sarcasm off
Of course it's an assumption on Whembly's part. He should really work for a sensationalist news outlet; he'd fit right in. Why report the news when you can report the news and color the opinions of anyone who has read it!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 15:50:17
Subject: Re:Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Kanluwen wrote:Of course not. She's clearly covering up for the administration, at the threat of being sent to a FEMA reeducation camp!
/sarcasm off
Of course it's an assumption on Whembly's part. He should really work for a sensationalist news outlet; he'd fit right in. Why report the news when you can report the news and color the opinions of anyone who has read it!
Sounds a lot like you're playing the player, rather than the ball
Shamelessly stolen from Frazz in the AP thread
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329067/Congress-hosts-IRS-bloodbath-slamming-tax-authorities-partisan-targeting-conservatives-official-refuses-answer-questions.html
Tempers flared in a House Oversight and Government Reform Committee hearing Wednesday, with members on both sides of the aisle castigating the Internal Revenue Service for targeting conservative groups with special scrutiny, and then hiding the practice from Congress.
Rep. Darrel Issa, the committee's chairman, said that the committee learned just yesterday that the IRS completed its own investigation a year before a Treasury Department Inspector General report was completed.
But despite the IRS recognizing in May 2012 that its employees were treating right-wing groups differently from other organizations, Issa said, IRS personnel withheld those conclusions from legislators.
'Just yesterday the committee interviewed Holly Paz, the director of exempt organizations, rulings and agreements, division of the IRS,' Issa said. 'While a tremendous amount of attention is centered about the Inspector General's report, or investigation, the committee has learned from Ms. Paz that she in fact participated in an IRS internal investigation that concluded in May of 2012 - May 3 of 2012 - and found essentially the same thing that Mr. George found more than a year later.'
'Think about it,' he continued: 'For more than a year, the IRS knew that it had inappropriately targeted groups of Americans based on their political beliefs, and without mentioning it, and in fact without honestly answering questions that were the result of this internal investigation.'
Deputy Treasury Secretary Neal Wolin testified that he was unaware of that IRS investigation until he read other officials prepared testimony just a few days ago.
Lois Lerner, the Director of Exempt Organizations at the IRS, made a brief opening statement recounting the recent history of the agency's scandal. Her attorney told the committee on Tuesday in a letter that she would refuse to answer questions by invoking her protections under the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
'I have not done anything wrong,' she said. 'I have not broken any laws. I have not violated any IRS rules or regulations and I have not provided false information to this or any other committee.'
Issa dismissed Lerner from the hearing, over objections from South Carolina Republican Rep. Trey Gowdy, who insisted that she should be forced to answer questions since she had 'waived her right' to refuse 'by issuing an opening statement.'
'She ought to stay and answer questions,' Gowdy said, to sudden applause from some in the audience gallery.
Issa then kept Lerner in the hearing room, asking her if she would answer any questions at all.
'I will not answer any questions or testify today,' she replied.
Issa then asked if she would answer questions about her previous testimony before Congress.
'i decline to answer that question, for reasons I have already given.'
Lerner was dismissed a second time and left the hearing room with her lawyer, but not before Issa cautioned that she could be recalled and forced to testify in the future if committee attorneys determined that she had forfeited her Fifth Amendment rights by making an opening statement.
One top Democrat breathed fire, warning that prosecutions could result.
Massachusetts Democratic Rep. Stephen Lynch said that if witnesses stonewalled the committee there would be legal consequences.
'If you refuse to answer,' Lynch said, 'you will leave us no choice but to ask for a special counsel or the appointment of a special prosecutor to get to the bottom of this.'
'I hope that’s not the approach of the IRS going forward,'he added. 'Because there will be hell to pay.'
Rep. Jim Jordan, an Ohio Republican, linked the tea party scandal with the implementation of President Obama's Affordable Care Act.
'This administration, this agency, the very agency charged with enforcing Obamacare,' Jordan said in an opening statement, 'systematically targeted groups that came into existence because they opposed Obamacare - and they started the targeting the very month, March 2010, that Obamacare came into law - expects us to believe it is the work of ‘two rogue agents.'
The Obama administration, Jordan reminded those in the hearing room, also 'told us and told the American people that the attack that killed four Americans in Benghazi was the work - was caused by a video.
'The people don’t buy it,' he said. 'The American people get it. They just want this administration to give them the truth. And that’s why this hearing is so important.'
Wolin also disclosed that Treasury Secretary Jack Lew got a heads-up in March - a month before White House Counsel Kathy Ruemmler - that an Inspector General report would soon be issued. That notification, he said, came from the Inspector General himself.
'On March 15, 2013, Mr. George had a short introductory meeting with Secretary Lew,' Wolin's prepared remarks read.
'At that meeting, Mr. George informed Secretary Lew of a number of matters TIGTA [the Inspector General office] was reviewing. He also indicated that this audit report would be forthcoming. Mr. George did not describe any details of his audit findings. This was also in line with standard practice.'
Florida Republican Rep. John Mica explained in his remarks why the IRS scandal may have overtaken the other two public-perception challenges that the Obama administration faces, whose being the 2012 Benghazi terror attack and the Justice Department's spying on reporters.
His tax-paying constituents, Mica said, find that it resonates especially well with them.
'I don’t think I've ever seen any investigation or review by this committee or subject that has so riveted and shocked the American people,' Mica said.
'I went home last weekend and almost to a person everyone asked me about this.'
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 16:00:10
Subject: Re:Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Dreadclaw69 wrote: Kanluwen wrote:Of course not. She's clearly covering up for the administration, at the threat of being sent to a FEMA reeducation camp!
/sarcasm off
Of course it's an assumption on Whembly's part. He should really work for a sensationalist news outlet; he'd fit right in. Why report the news when you can report the news and color the opinions of anyone who has read it!
Sounds a lot like you're playing the player, rather than the ball
If he wants to post an article?
That's fine. Don't post an "update" set up with your own slant and no actual article associated with it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 16:01:47
Subject: Re:Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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Old Sourpuss
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Kan, here is the article in question... he did admit to forgetting to post it...
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DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 16:07:53
Subject: Re:Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Alfndrate wrote:
Kan, here is the article in question... he did admit to forgetting to post it...
His post was today.
His statement is:
So...Lerner took the 5th today...that's her right.
Just as we have a right to "interpret" that behavior...
Bear in mind, Lerner is pleading the 5th out of fear of being prosecuted by Obama's DOJ or his US attorneys. It has to be really bad.
There's no article attached to that statement. There's just the statement of "She plead the 5th" and then the whole bit about "interpreting" the pleading.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 16:09:11
Subject: Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 16:10:02
Subject: Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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So we aren't allowed to speculate on events as they happen? I would have thought that invoking the right not to self incriminate could reasonably be seen as not wanting to say something that you could later be prosecuted for by the Department of Justice.
Maybe you have another slant on her pleading the 5th that you would like to share with us, you may be seeing something that others are not.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/22 16:12:06
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 16:14:43
Subject: Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Dreadclaw69 wrote:So we aren't allowed to speculate on events as they happen? I would have thought that invoking the right not to self incriminate could reasonably be seen as not wanting to say something that you could later be prosecuted for by the Department of Justice.
You're perfectly welcome to speculate on events as they happen.
Just don't go and y'know...try to wrap it up as though you know what you're talking about or are a media presenter.
Maybe you have another slant on her pleading the 5th that you would like to share with us, you may be seeing something that others are not.
There's no "slant" about it. She plead the 5th. That's her right. Why she did it?
Who knows at this point.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 16:16:47
Subject: Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Dammit... DID IT AGAIN!
Thanks Frazz...
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 16:17:50
Subject: Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Kanluwen wrote: Dreadclaw69 wrote:So we aren't allowed to speculate on events as they happen? I would have thought that invoking the right not to self incriminate could reasonably be seen as not wanting to say something that you could later be prosecuted for by the Department of Justice.
You're perfectly welcome to speculate on events as they happen.
Just don't go and y'know...try to wrap it up as though you know what you're talking about or are a media presenter.
Maybe you have another slant on her pleading the 5th that you would like to share with us, you may be seeing something that others are not.
There's no "slant" about it. She plead the 5th. That's her right. Why she did it?
Who knows at this point.
AS this is not a court of law we can speculate all we want.
Frazzled speculates she's worried about having to take groups showers in Club Fed.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 16:19:11
Subject: Re:Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Kanluwen wrote:
His post was today.
His statement is:
So...Lerner took the 5th today...that's her right.
Just as we have a right to "interpret" that behavior...
Bear in mind, Lerner is pleading the 5th out of fear of being prosecuted by Obama's DOJ or his US attorneys. It has to be really bad.
There's no article attached to that statement. There's just the statement of "She plead the 5th" and then the whole bit about "interpreting" the pleading.
We all have access to a thing called the "internet".
I did intend to post an article... but, I've been working.
And for the record, I did say she has the right to plead the 5th. Just was WE HAVE A RIGHT to what assumption we choose to make based on said behaviors.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 16:19:54
Subject: Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
I didn't get what you got from whembly's post. He talked about having the right to interpret (which he did) and you just confirmed that we have the right to speculate. Perhaps you found his language imprecise, but based on the context it should have been easy to adduce that he was speculating.
As with much else concerning the IRS I'm sure we'll find out more in due course.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 16:42:20
Subject: Re:Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Now I'm just spitballing here and would like someone who worked (or knows someone) for the Federal Government to chime in...
You have every right to take the 5th.
But, as Federal Employees... if you take the 5th during a congressional hearing whereby said committee is performing it's oversight duty... shouldn't that employee be immediately put on Administrative Leave, if not outright removed?
Remember, this is a civil servant job.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 17:13:53
Subject: Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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good point. However I've since been informed no one gets fired from the government.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 17:14:41
Subject: Re:Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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No. They get promoted
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Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 17:26:18
Subject: Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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whembly wrote:Now I'm just spitballing here and would like someone who worked (or knows someone) for the Federal Government to chime in...
You have every right to take the 5th.
But, as Federal Employees... if you take the 5th during a congressional hearing whereby said committee is performing it's oversight duty... shouldn't that employee be immediately put on Administrative Leave, if not outright removed?
Remember, this is a civil servant job.
Firing someone for exercising their rights? Why would you do that? I'm agree that she should be being helpful, but why should we be treating her 5th Amendment rights any differently than her 1st, 2nd or 4th amendment rights?
Frazzled wrote:good point. However I've since been informed no one gets fired from the government.
Nope, never. Not ever never. Never been one.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 18:02:00
Subject: Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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streamdragon wrote: whembly wrote:Now I'm just spitballing here and would like someone who worked (or knows someone) for the Federal Government to chime in...
You have every right to take the 5th.
But, as Federal Employees... if you take the 5th during a congressional hearing whereby said committee is performing it's oversight duty... shouldn't that employee be immediately put on Administrative Leave, if not outright removed?
Remember, this is a civil servant job.
Firing someone for exercising their rights? Why would you do that? I'm agree that she should be being helpful, but why should we be treating her 5th Amendment rights any differently than her 1st, 2nd or 4th amendment rights?
Administrative Leave... that's not being fired.
Sure, there needs to be failsafe/reviews to ensure that this doesn't get abused.
But, if you refuse to cooperate with a Congressional Oversight committee... it's, a scary proposition that you'd continue your duties while refusing to cooperate... see where I'm getting at?
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 18:50:56
Subject: Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Admin leave I couldn't care less about (although I can already see the partisan "OMG PAYING HER" whining  ). I was taking more umbrage with "outright removal".
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 18:58:57
Subject: Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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streamdragon wrote:Admin leave I couldn't care less about (although I can already see the partisan "OMG PAYING HER" whining  ). I was taking more umbrage with "outright removal".
Meh...
The route I'd go is for Administrative Leave until that person's review is satisfied or not. Simply firing them when taking the 5th seems excessive. But, I'd certainly advocate that the person should not be performing their duties while not cooperating with Congress (via taking the 5th).
I'm still stunned over the fact that The IRS Completed Internal Investigation Into Tea Party Targeting Matter in May 2012 and Hid Report from Congress... because... y'know, there's an election going on.
I've yet to see anything that would contradict that. o.O
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well... Lerner opened up a Legal Pandora's Box this morning...
While Internal Revenue Service official Lois G. Lerner invoked the Fifth Amendment in her refusal to testify before Congress Wednesday, the fact that she gave a lengthy opening statement defending her innocence infuriated some lawmakers and prompted them to suggest she had inadvertently waived her right against self-incrimination.
In the course of her opening statement Lerner, the head of the IRS division on tax-exempt organizations, told members of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, ““I have not done anything wrong. I have not broken any laws, I have not violated any IRS rules or regulations and I have not provided false information to this or any other congressional committee.”
But the fact that she reiterated some of the same answers she gave the inspector general during his investigation prompted the panel’s chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) to remark, “At this point, I believe you have not asserted your rights, but have effectively waived your rights.”
Did she?
Like many legal questions, it depends on whom you ask. Stanley M. Brand, who has represented several clients that have faced congressional scrutiny, wrote in an e-mail he did not believe she provided “a waiver” for lawmakers to ask her questions by broaching the subject of her division’s activities before invoking the Fifth Amendment.
“The question would be whether she made statements about the factual substance of the subject, but courts will be loath to divest someone of their rights absent a clear and unequivocal waiver,” Brand wrote.
Brand raises a key point—in order to compel Lerner to testify, Congress would have to hold her in contempt.
In certain circumstances, Lerner’s detailed opening statement could be interpreted as a “subject matter waiver,” meaning she had made factual statements about the case that then opened the door for the committee to ask her for further details.
But to do that they would have to hold her in contempt, and get a judge to rule in favor of it.
Lerner’s lawyer, William W. Taylor, adamantly disagreed. “The law is clear that a witness does not waive her Fifth Amendment rights not to testify as to facts by asserting that she is innocent of the wrongdoing with which she is accused,” he wrote in an e-mail.
In an interview, Taylor said Lerner’s comments—which gave a thumbnail sketch of her division’s operation and the two investigations it has spurred in the offices of the Treasury inspector general and FBI — didn’t delve into the facts. “It simply said, ‘This is what you guys accused me of, I’m not guilty of it.’”
Still, Issa made it clear Wednesday afternoon he may summon Lerner again to respond to lawmakers’ inquiries. “I am looking into the possibility of re-calling her and insisting she answer questions in light of a waiver,” he told his colleagues. “For that reason, and with your understanding and indulgence, this hearing stands in recess, not adjourned.”
Taylor said he had not engaged in a discussion with Issa’s staff about a possible grant of limited immunity in exchange for Lerner testifying.
Regardless of the legal niceties surrounding Lerner’s invocation of the Fifth, Brand wrote that it’s always a good idea to keep one’s opening remarks short under such circumstances.
“As a matter of advice,” he wrote, “I advise witnesses to restrict themselves in asserting the privilege and reserve any additional comments to those outside the congressional proceeding.”
From what I gather, you can't make statements about a subject and then plead the Fifth in response to that very subject.
Once you open that box, you've waived your Fifth Amendment right and waived your "self-incrimination" right on that subject.
The question here is that it appears to be a grey area...because testifying in front of Congress isn't the same as testifying in a court... I think. o.O
I remember reading about McCarthyism during the Communist scare that the hearings in which suspected Communists were grilled by the House... they tried to trap people by saying, look, you're a Fifth Amendment communist, you won't answer any questions"...
The people would then say we'd love to answer your questions but we can't because if we do, we waive the 5th and then you'll ask us who our friends are and who else was a member of the Communist Party...
I think this is one of those SC precedent...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/23 03:42:47
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 22:13:55
Subject: Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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Most Glorious Grey Seer
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The thing I'm wondering is, what are the penalties for refusing to testify?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 22:34:06
Subject: Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Breotan wrote:The thing I'm wondering is, what are the penalties for refusing to testify?
If the comittee chooses to believe that Lener waived her 5th amendment right by speaking, then they can hold her in contempt and can place her in Congressional Jail (yes, there is one).
I seriously doubt it'd go that far though.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 22:42:27
Subject: Re:Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Ms. Lerner has been suspended from her job at the IRS following her refusal to testify.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
whembly wrote:If the comittee chooses to believe that Lener waived her 5th amendment right by speaking, then they can hold her in contempt and can place her in Congressional Jail (yes, there is one)..
Alternately, they can (and I bet will) offer her limited immunity to compel her to testify.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/23 22:52:46
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 22:46:55
Subject: Re:Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Good...
Her being "paid" doesn't bother me as much as her continuing any governmental function. Now she's on leave... let her stew a bit.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
whembly wrote:If the comittee chooses to believe that Lener waived her 5th amendment right by speaking, then they can hold her in contempt and can place her in Congressional Jail (yes, there is one)..
Alternately, they can (and I bet will) offer her transactional immunity to compel her to testify.
"transaction immunity"... what do you mean by that?
I'm not sure if that'll work... if they give her immunity, couldn't she just say: "Yep, it was ALL me".
Unless you meant conditional immunity, meaning she fesses up to who order'ed her to do this.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 22:50:38
Subject: Re:Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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I'll leave this here rather than give you my, perhaps inaccurate, definition. Especially when I was wrong and meant "limited" not transactional. I'll edit my prior post.
I will say that essentially, they agree not to prosecute her in exchange for her truthful testimony. Emphasis mine, because if she tries to " pull a Wee-bey" and take the fall for everyone she can later be prosecuted anyway if it's later shown she was untruthful.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/23 22:52:32
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 22:57:48
Subject: Re:Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Interesting. Although I will say that a blind man on a galloping horse could see her ploy from a mile off re. the immunity
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 22:58:41
Subject: Re:Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Ouze wrote:I'll leave this here rather than give you my, perhaps inaccurate, definition. Especially when I was wrong and meant "limited" not transactional. I'll edit my prior post.
I will say that essentially, they agree not to prosecute her in exchange for her truthful testimony. Emphasis mine, because if she tries to " pull a Wee-bey" and take the fall for everyone she can later be prosecuted anyway if it's later shown she was untruthful.
Gotcha!
SO if she accepts immunity, she'd better be truthful.
Saw this on my twitter feed recently:
Sen. Grassley stmt: "My understanding is the new acting IRS commissioner asked for Ms. Lerner’s resignation, and she refused to resign."
Looks like she's clamming up.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 23:03:13
Subject: Re:Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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whembly wrote:I'm not sure if that'll work... if they give her immunity, couldn't she just say: "Yep, it was ALL me".
I'm sure that if she admitted to all wrong doing, and the evidence did not support that, then further action against her may be possible
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