Conservative groups in the US really were targeted by the IRS

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**whembly**

No problem here... right?

IRS agent: Tax agency is still targeting Tea Party groups

In a remarkable admission that is likely to rock the Internal Revenue Service again, testimony released Thursday by House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp reveals that an agent involved in reviewing tax exempt applications from conservative groups told a committee investigator that the agency is still targeting Tea Party groups, three months after the IRS scandal erupted..

In closed door testimony before the House Ways & Means Committee, the unidentified IRS agent said requests for special tax status from Tea Party groups is being forced into a special "secondary screening" because the agency has yet to come up with new guidance on how to judge the tax status of the groups.

In a transcript from the committee provided to Secrets, a Ways & Means investigator asked: "If you saw -- I am asking this currently, if today if a Tea Party case, a group -- a case from a Tea Party group came in to your desk, you reviewed the file and there was no evidence of political activity, would you potentially approve that case? Is that something you would do?"

The agent said, "At this point I would send it to secondary screening, political advocacy."

The committee staffer then said, "So you would treat a Tea Party group as a political advocacy case even if there was no evidence of political activity on the application. Is that right?" The agent admitted, "Based on my current manager's direction, uh-huh."

Camp called the renewed targeting of Tea Party groups "outrageous."

Added a committee aide, "In plain English, the IRS is still targeting Tea Party cases."

During 2010-2012 period when the anti-Obama Tea Party groups faced special scrutiny from the president's IRS, agents used a "be on the lookout," or BOLO, list which said groups with words like "Tea Party" in their title should face special, secondary screening for political activities that might hamper their special tax status.

When the scandal erupted after a Treasury Department inspector general revealed the improper political scrutiny, the acting head of the IRS, Danny Werfel, said the BOLO list had been suspended. That was six weeks ago.

But because there is nothing in its place, agents apparently either don't know how to handle Tea Party tax exempt applications, or are too scared to make a decision.

Asked by the committee how it handles Tea Party applications, the agent said, "If a political advocacy case came in today, I would give it -- or talk about it to my manager because right now we really don't have any direction or we haven't had any for the last month and a half."

Camp, the Michigan Republican, told Secrets, "It is outrageous that IRS management continues to target Tea Party cases without any justification. The harassment, abuse and delays these Americans have faced over the last few years has been unwarranted, unprovoked and, at times, possibly illegal. The fact that the IRS still continues to treat the Tea Party differently and subject them to additional targeting is outrageous and it must stop immediately."

-----

Below is the Ways & Means Committee transcript of the IRS official.

Wednesday, August 1, 2013

Committee: Today, currently, how do you analyze advocacy cases. If, for example, Tea Party of Arkansas came in today, how would you handle it?

IRS agent: Well, the BOLO list doesn't exist anymore.

Committee: Sure.

IRS: If a political advocacy case came in today, I would give it -- or talk about it to my manager because right now we really don't have any direction or we haven't had any for the last month and a half.

------

Committee: If you saw -- I am asking this currently, if today if a Tea Party case, a group -- a case from a Tea Party group came in to your desk, you reviewed the file and there was no evidence of political activity, would you potentially approve that case? Is that something you would do?

IRS agent: At this point I would send it to secondary screening, political advocacy.

Committee: So you would treat a Tea Party group as a political advocacy case even if there was no evidence of political activity on the application. Is that right?

IRS agent: Based on my current manager's direction, uh-huh.

**dogma**

Is there a self-identified Tea Party group (whatever that might entail) that isn't engaged in political advocacy?

**whembly**

dogma wrote:
Is there a self-identified Tea Party group (whatever that might entail) that isn't engaged in political advocacy?

Is there a self-identified Liberal group (whatever that might entail) that isn't engaged in political advocacy?

**Alfndrate**

Does anyone want to join my tea party? We try out new teas

**Easy E**

The only people who still aren't satisfied are rabid righties. Everyone else has realized that this was a tempest in a Teapot with nothing much really going on out of the ordinary.

**Frazzled**

Alfndrate wrote:
Does anyone want to join my tea party? We try out new teas

I heard protesters are disrupting shipments of high end disrelee (spelling) tea in India. Won't someone think of the Tea Party?!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Easy E wrote:
The only people who still aren't satisfied are rabid righties. Everyone else has realized that this was a tempest in a Teapot with nothing much really going on out of the ordinary.

really? Targetting was vetted by a political appointee of Abama but its onlya tempest in a teapot? You're from Chicago aren't you...

**Easy E**

Except we have learned it was not "just" conservatives. Therefore, it was the IRS actually doing their job, which Dogma has pointed out many times.

If Conservative groups wer ethe only group targetted, I would agree that this was unwarranted and crazy. Since it has been demonstrably proven by several media sources that other groups were also given scrutiny then it is no longer targetting but due diligence.

Of course, I'm still waiting for more "facts" to come out and not just Rep Issa's fishing expeditions.

**djones520**

Easy E wrote:
Except we have learned it was not "just" conservatives. Therefore, it was the IRS actually doing their job, which Dogma has pointed out many times.

If Conservative groups wer ethe only group targetted, I would agree that this was unwarranted and crazy. Since it has been demonstrably proven by several media sources that other groups were also given scrutiny then it is no longer targetting but due diligence.

Of course, I'm still waiting for more "facts" to come out and not just Rep Issa's fishing expeditions.

More then 90 conservative groups, and 3 liberal groups, does not mean they were being "impartial" in their search.

The Cincinnati office did improperly target conservative groups. Made clear by the fact that they were specifically targeting groups using words like "Tea Party".

**Frazzled**

Easy E wrote:
Except we have learned it was not "just" conservatives. Therefore, it was the IRS actually doing their job, which Dogma has pointed out many times.

If Conservative groups wer ethe only group targetted, I would agree that this was unwarranted and crazy. Since it has been demonstrably proven by several media sources that other groups were also given scrutiny then it is no longer targetting but due diligence.

Of course, I'm still waiting for more "facts" to come out and not just Rep Issa's fishing expeditions.

adding in an occupy group or two doesn't make it targeted. It means they were going after all enemies of Dear Leader, not just the Republicans.

**d-usa**

djones520 wrote:
Easy E wrote:
Except we have learned it was not "just" conservatives. Therefore, it was the IRS actually doing their job, which Dogma has pointed out many times.

If Conservative groups wer ethe only group targetted, I would agree that this was unwarranted and crazy. Since it has been demonstrably proven by several media sources that other groups were also given scrutiny then it is no longer targetting but due diligence.

Of course, I'm still waiting for more "facts" to come out and not just Rep Issa's fishing expeditions.

More then 90 conservative groups, and 3 liberal groups, does not mean they were being "impartial" in their search.

The Cincinnati office did improperly target conservative groups. Made clear by the fact that they were specifically targeting groups using words like "Tea Party".

Have we forgotten (or are we ignoring) the fact that the conservatives that initiated the investigation of the IRS specifically asked to look for (and only for) conservative groups that were targeted?

The investigation did not start as "see if the IRS targeted political groups" or "see if the IRS targeted any gorups" but only "see which conservative groups were targeted". The reason the initial investigation found so many conservative groups was because they were instructed to look for conservative groups. Once different investigations started to see if liberal groups were targeted as well they found out that the targeting of political groups included both conservatives and liberals.

But of course we already know that. And now we will go into the usual spin of "how things are different" and "depends on what definition of targeting you are using" and "it doesn't matter that the groups don't meet the status, the IRS shouldn't be allowed to investigate to make sure people are following the rules".

So many legitimate things that the Obama administration could be targeted for, but the conservative spin machine is trying to combine the "people hate big government" with "people hate the IRS" and make a non-story into a perfect storm.

Maybe after loosing two more presidential elections the GOP will figure out that their old values and ideas don't work and that their tactics are doing nothing to bring in new voters.

**whembly**

Easy E wrote:
Except we have learned it was not "just" conservatives. Therefore, it was the IRS actually doing their job, which Dogma has pointed out many times.

If Conservative groups wer ethe only group targetted, I would agree that this was unwarranted and crazy. Since it has been demonstrably proven by several media sources that other groups were also given scrutiny then it is no longer targetting but due diligence.

Of course, I'm still waiting for more "facts" to come out and not just Rep Issa's fishing expeditions.

Have you been ignoring these facts?
- At least 292 conservative groups targeted
- At least 5 pro-Israel groups targeted
- Constitutional groups targeted
- Groups that criticized Obama administration were targeted
- At least two pro-life groups targeted
- A Texas voting-rights group was targeted
- Conservative activists and businesses were targeted.
- At least 88 IRS agents were involved in the targeting scandal
- At least one conservative Hispanic group was targeted
- No liberal groups suffered the same type of scrutiny from the IRS – Not one

**Grey Templar**

Indeed. Its not that they were exclusively targeted, its that they were disproportionally targeted.

**Alfndrate**

Hell the thread title doesn't even say exclusively!

**Breotan**

I made the title the way I did because, in the past, conservative groups often protested of IRS harassment while their claims were being chalked up to paranoia. What's that old saying? Even paranoids can have real enemies?

**dogma**

whembly wrote:

Is there a self-identified Liberal group (whatever that might entail) that isn't engaged in political advocacy?

No. That was the point.

Thought "Tea Party" and "Liberal" are not equivalent terms. A better comparison would be "Tea Party" and "Environmentalist" or "Green".

Of course the answer doesn't change.

whembly wrote:

- No liberal groups suffered the same type of scrutiny from the IRS – Not one

This is the only part that matters. The rest can very easily be explained by way of the proliferation of new, conservative NPOs in the wake of Obama's first election.

**Easy E**

[

whembly wrote:

- No liberal groups suffered the same type of scrutiny from the IRS – Not one

This is the only part that matters. The rest can very easily be explained by way of the proliferation of new, conservative NPOs in the wake of Obama's first election.

**whembly**

Easy E wrote:
[
whembly wrote:

- No liberal groups suffered the same type of scrutiny from the IRS – Not one

This is the only part that matters. The rest can very easily be explained by way of the proliferation of new, conservative NPOs in the wake of Obama's first election.

Exactly. The IRS did nothing wrong except try to actually "enforce" the law.

Also, all the way back on July 18th, we saw that it wasn't just Conservative/Tea Party groups:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/18/politics/irs-scandal

His audit, released in May, cited criteria including "tea party" and other conservative-themed words or labels that were used to decide whether applicants for tax-exempt status should come under further review. Since then, an investigation by the panel turned up documents that showed IRS workers also were told to look for the liberal-themed label.

So let's stop being all butt-hurt about Conservatives being treated unfairly. I know you guys like to be the victims and all, but this time you weren't. Sorry. Everyone was getting special scrutiny because the special tax designation was being abused.

**Easy E**

Well, I won't lie. That is a very compelling chart for your case from NPR.

**skyth**

My personal opinion...The Tea Party (And similar groups) are political groups based around the idea that taxes are bad. It is more likely that those types of groups would try to abuse/ignore rules that apply to taxes.

This is simply a case of the IRS getting the most bang for their buck as far as their resources are concerned.

**CptJake**

skyth wrote:
My personal opinion...The Tea Party (And similar groups) are political groups based around the idea that taxes are bad. It is more likely that those types of groups would try to abuse/ignore rules that apply to taxes.

This is simply a case of the IRS getting the most bang for their buck as far as their resources are concerned.

Unless you have facts and stats to base that opinion on, it is worthless. Since even the IRS does not seem to be claiming what you are, I would really like to see something to back up your opinion.

**Frazzled**

I have an idea to fix this-no entity is tax free except charities. BAM! Elect my President and the trains will run on time!

**whembly**

Frazzled wrote:
I have an idea to fix this-no entity is tax free except charities. BAM! Elect my President and the trains will run on time!

Won't work... as "charities" will start doing even more political activities.

But trains running on time? Dude... you just got the job!

**d-usa**

There is only one train a day from OKC to Ft. Worth.

If you can't keep that one train on time then you just suck at your job!

**whembly**

d-usa wrote:
There is only one train a day from OKC to Ft. Worth.

If you can't keep that one train on time then you just suck at your job!

But... D... you live in OKC! You've got the Wagon Trains!

*whembly waves, ducks and runs!*

**d-usa**

The only trains that are in time are the ones that cross the streets every 10 minutes and hold up traffic!

**Frazzled**

Rumor has it Star Trek was pitched as Wagon Train, in space.

**d-usa**

Spock has died of dysentery?

**Frazzled**

Que?

**d-usa**

Ala "Oregon Trail" fame, the best Wagon Train game ever produced!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oregon_Trail_(video_game)

**Grey Templar**

more like "Dysentery has died of Spock related mind-fething after getting screwed by Captain Kirk"