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Where is the rule where you can't assault the first turn? I haven't been able to find it, although I keep looking.
Also, is there a rule that you can assault first turn if you go second? I have heard some podcasts talking about some tactics that involve that.

It has actually made some real differences in my games.

There is no rule. You can't assault on turn one woth infiltrating or scouting units, but if you can somehow get across the board in time to charge on the first turn you are good to go.

Had someone quit on me when they couldn't find the rule disallowing first turn assaults.

oh really, well thats odd. Was that just a 5th edition rule I was thinking of?

To be fair, it's really hard to get first turn assault. (Especially if you go first.) The only ways I know of getting it are Stormboys and anyone with the +1" charge warlord trait, though if you go second then the enemy can typically get close enough to charge.

This has effected my games against the Dark Angels. He'll scout up with his bikes right into my Khorne lord, and I thought I couldnt do anything, so I would back away.

 chickenbgood wrote:
oh really, well thats odd. Was that just a 5th edition rule I was thinking of?

No, there has never, to my memory, been such a rule

In fact 6th is the first time they have explicitly disallowed assault if you scout or infiltrate. Thats it.

Well cool, thanks guys

In fact the opposite was true in 5th with almost everyone able to get turn 1 charges off without even your opponent having to deploy like a moron to allow it. We're talking 40"+ from where you deploy and more.

You can still reasonably easily do it with raiders and the like, as you can still gain 3 - 4" from the turn.

But only if your opponent deploys like a moron...

27+2d6" threat range isn't exactly "deploying like a moron".

rigeld2 wrote:
27+2d6" threat range isn't exactly "deploying like a moron".

How can a raider generate a 27+2d6" assault threat range? They turn for 3", move 6", disembark 6", charge 2d6. That's 27" max unless I'm missing something.



EDIT: Math

Yeah 27" max sounds like deploying like a moron to me.

It wouldn't be deploying like a moron if you're an assault-based army looking to pull this trick yourself and have the initiative seized from you. Or, if you have 24" rapid fire yourself and are looking to risk 11"/12" to get the extra shot off in Overwatch - not unreasonable with Tau or Guard. Or if you have abilities that prevent longer charges (like certain psychic powers) but you have an unlucky fail in pulling them off. Or... or... or... you get the idea. Blanket statements go back in the cupboard, people - nothing in a vacuum.

Rules-wise, don't forget that as well as Scouts and Infiltrators, there is also a rule stating you can't assault from reserves unless you're specifically told otherwise (page 125).

Assault drop pods anyone?

There is no such thing, as FW has yet to FAQ a way for it to work around 6th edition's no charging when you arrive from reserve rule.

 HoverBoy wrote:
There is no such thing, as FW has yet to FAQ a way for it to work around 6th edition's no charging when you arrive from reserve rule.

Apart from where it says it can charge on the turn you arrive, you mean?

 BetrayTheWorld wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
27+2d6" threat range isn't exactly "deploying like a moron".

How can a raider generate a 27+2d6" assault threat range? They turn for 3", move 6", disembark 6", charge 2d6. That's 27" max unless I'm missing something.



EDIT: Math

What's the normal deployment line? 12" from your board edge, right?
We might be saying the same thing, but 39" max range (from your board edge) out of 48" possible is still hardly "deploying like a moron".

24" separation is the norm, as it is defined as distance from the centre line, not distance from outside edges.

Where are you getting 39" from in 6th? With some of the old DE combos of raiders, fleet and 12" drugged charges I can see that distance, but struggling in 6th

Deploying directly opposite a LR deployed sideways is deploying like a moron. You don't even have to deploy the 3" back just to the side. Remember you've only a 12" deployment so a 3" elipse opposite the LR is all you need to avoid...

And if you deploy first, or the unit gets redeployed...

And Nos - that's exactly what I'm referring to, a Raider with Wyches (since that's the scenario you brought up).

rigeld2 wrote:
We might be saying the same thing, but 39" max range (from your board edge) out of 48" possible is still hardly "deploying like a moron".

You still appear to be adding in an extra 12 inches that aren't warranted.

 Drunkspleen wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
We might be saying the same thing, but 39" max range (from your board edge) out of 48" possible is still hardly "deploying like a moron".

You still appear to be adding in an extra 12 inches that aren't warranted.

12" deploy
3" rotate
6" move
6" disembark
12" lucky assault roll
Total = 39"

rigeld2 wrote:
And if you deploy first, or the unit gets redeployed...

And Nos - that's exactly what I'm referring to, a Raider with Wyches (since that's the scenario you brought up).

Ah, I wasnt including the 12" "deploy", as I was only talking about the difference between units

Then the 27" becomes more important vs the 24", and not the 39" I was thinking of.

I am not sure how you gain 3" using a Raider. Can someone explain?

They are (I think) referring to the practice of deploying a long vehicle sideways and then using 'free' pivoting before movement to gain a few inches before they measure for movement.

Deploy it right at your deployment edge sideways. Turn 1 you rotate it to face forward gaining 3" before it moves.

Beast wrote:
They are (I think) referring to the practice of deploying a long vehicle sideways and then using 'free' pivoting before movement to gain a few inches before they measure for movement.

That what I do not understand, how does pivoting give you 3 free inches.

The rules say if vehicle only pivots, then it doesn count as moving. It doesn't say that you free inches.

if a vehicle starts the turn sideways, you measure from any point on that hull, lets say 12", no part of that vehicle can extended outside of that twelve 12"

If all it does is pivot, then it still counts and stationary, if it pivots then moves, it can pivot any amount it wants there after but must stay it that 12" bubble that was measure before moved or pivoted.

40k-noob wrote:

Beast wrote:
They are (I think) referring to the practice of deploying a long vehicle sideways and then using 'free' pivoting before movement to gain a few inches before they measure for movement.

That what I do not understand, how does pivoting give you 3 free inches.

The rules say if vehicle only pivots, then it doesn count as moving. It doesn't say that you free inches.

if a vehicle starts the turn sideways, you measure from any point on that hull, lets say 12", no part of that vehicle can extended outside of that twelve 12"

If all it does is pivot, then it still counts and stationary, if it pivots then moves, it can pivot any amount it wants there after but must stay it that 12" bubble that was measure before moved or pivoted.

Oh man.... Here we go....