Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

My store is having its first doubles tournament since 6th came out. The TO has already stated that we won't be using Allies rules, but this leaves things ambigious, I think.

Should effects like Runes of Warding, SitW, and the Daemon Warp Storm affect the teammate? I think not. But if you make your teammate "friendly" (the semantically simplest way to avoid these hassles), can your ICs join your teammate's ICs? Do friendly effects (like the GK Dread's Aegis bubble) work on your teammate?

HWIPI, and also potential RAW problems that should be addressed before the tournament starts.

I would say they are friendly models for all purposes, but no joining each others units or riding in each others transports.

So your abilities will treat each other as friendlies. You can buff each other up with psychic powers, RoW won't effect your buddy, etc...


That's HIWPI

It is ultimately up to the TO. The way my group has played doubles is as follows:
1. Warlord per side. Each team decides who will provide the Warlord. The Warlod still must be the model in the providers army with highest Leadership.
2. Things that affect enemy models do not affect your team at all, therefore Runes of Warding or SitW will not affect your team, just your opponent.
3. ICs cannot join a teammates unit.
4. Special rules "bubbles" can benefit your teammate (so if both you and your partner are running Nids, your models need to be in Synapse range of either your or his Synapse creatures).

Happyjew is correct, It is ultimately up to the TO.

I paly a good amount of doubles games and here is the way my group plays doubles:

1. Eact teammate has his own army, his own Force Org and his own warlord. The two armies per side operate completely independent of each other.
2. Things that affect enemy models do not affect your team at all, therefore Runes of Warding or SitW will not affect your team, just your opponent.
3. ICs cannot join a teammates unit and no riding in each others transports.
4. Special rules "bubbles" can not benefit your teammate as each army is an independent force.

Up to the TO.

However, without using Allies rules it gets a bit wonky.

For example, do you use 1 or 2 warlords per side? (HJ says 1, DR says 2). Whatever the answer, this alone will have a big impact in other game interactions.

A simple thing is just the secondary object slay the warlord. By having 2 per side then killing the warlords becomes, in some cases, more valuable to do than obtaining certain primary objectives...

We've played both ways but lately have tended towards just 1 warlord per side while using the ally rules. Seems to make the entire game be a bit more defined.

Yes, I do realise that these things are up to the TO--that's why there is an organiser. I would, though, like for the TO to think about potential problems before they arise at 10.01am, when we should instead be playing the game.

In a blind doubles, there is a lot of luck based on whether you get paired with a good general or a poor one. The problem with using the Allies matrix is that you could have two mediocre players who happened to be Battle Brothers, and therefore able to synergize much easier than the other teams. It wouldn't matter how good of a player the Eldar is, or the Tzeentch Daemon: if RoW affects the teammate, that effectively neuters half their team, based on a random pairing. And that just wouldn't be fun. Thinking about these things beforehand is a good thing to do.

Thanks for the ideas!

In my opinion, the Allies Matrix, BB/AoC/Desperate Allies designations are designed to apply exclusively to Allied Detachments under the FOC of the controlling player. Applying them to fellow teammates does not make sense to me, for exactly some of the reasons mentioned thus far -- what happens if you get Desperate Allies matched up against highly synergized Battle Brothers, etc?

In the case of blind doubles, especially, what would happen if you had a Tyranid player? Suddenly the game is 2 v 1 v 1?

If I were running the event, your teammate's army all count as "Friendly" models, but you can't ride their transports or join their squads. Whether or not beneficial effects blanket over teammate's units is pretty much a 50/50 call for the organizer ... I personally would allow it.

First, make sure any special rules aren't FAQ'd for "only effects Codex: NAME HERE" edits.

Second, I play a lot of team games and if the rules allow cross buffs of your teammates above that of the allies matrix, quit. The game can get super broken and frustrating when that sort of crap starts to happen. First hand knowledge of that just souring the game.

First blood/line breaker only counts once, but each team must have two warlords, one from each player.

How we usually play it.

Pretty much. I'd take the allies matrix entirely out of play for this kind of thing. Your units are your units, theirs are theirs, because when you start combining powers stuff starts getting wonky. Leave each player to handle their objectives, as opposed to whoever randomly rolls a synergy heavy team.

The forum here isn't going to be able to give you RAW, because there are no rules for doubles play outside of Apocalypse.

How rules interact between teammates is entirely up to the TO.

HIWPI:
My group often goes 2v2, since we generally only manage one game in a day and often 4 people want in.

We play it as 2 separate armies, working towards the same goal.

1) 2 Warlords (and 2 victory points for slay the warlord.)
2) Units in the friendly allied army are "Neutral units" to the ally. So nothing that affects enemies or friendlies affects the allied army. Can't join eachother, can't hurt eachother, can't use spells on eachother.
3) First blood and linebreaker can only be taken once, and the points are for the side, not the player. So if you kill both the warlords and your friend gets linebreaker, you got yourself 3 points as a team.

(sounds like me and Kbob play it much the same way)

Ultimate, of course, it's up to the TO.

I feel that the best way to do things is to just use the adepticon TT rules as they are well balanced and can be modified to fit most situatuions

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
My store is having its first doubles tournament since 6th came out. The TO has already stated that we won't be using Allies rules, but this leaves things ambigious, I think.

Should effects like Runes of Warding, SitW, and the Daemon Warp Storm affect the teammate? I think not. But if you make your teammate "friendly" (the semantically simplest way to avoid these hassles), can your ICs join your teammate's ICs? Do friendly effects (like the GK Dread's Aegis bubble) work on your teammate?

HWIPI, and also potential RAW problems that should be addressed before the tournament starts.

This is a question for the TO. No one here can give you the answer that they will go by.

HWIPI? Everyone is Allies of Convenience with their blind team mate. Its the only way that is fair. If you use the BRB chart, some random matches could get boned on some missions cause of Desperate Allies. If you made everyone Battle Brothers, you'll get some broken combinations that don't normally exist.