Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 wowsmash wrote:
One thing I didn't understand was how khan had the knowledge to build advance tech when he was frozen for 300 years. In the original movie that's how they defeated him. Sure he was super strong and smart but he was not experienced with advanced tactics in space.

Remember Khan is a super genius and a super soldier. I'm not sure if they mention how long he's been awake but it's not unheard of for people maybe not as advanced technologically to see a new application of existing technology. And he's geared toward murder and mayhem so it makes sense that once he's started to understand the concepts (and he should be able to) that he'd be able to design new systems and weapons. And it's not like he wouldn't grasp the tactics required in a space environment, he's smart enough.

Didn't watch the original series where they first encountered Khan though, only the movie, so I'm not sure how that portion relates to the reboot universe.

IIRC WWIII was instigated by Kahn in the 1990s. It nearly destroyed humanity and became the catalyst for humans to become pacifist utopians. So Kahn hails from a lost Dark Age of Warfare Technology if you will, which is why the evil Admiral guy wanted to bring him back in the first place.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 wowsmash wrote:
One thing I didn't understand was how khan had the knowledge to build advance tech when he was frozen for 300 years. In the original movie that's how they defeated him. Sure he was super strong and smart but he was not experienced with advanced tactics in space.

Remember Khan is a super genius and a super soldier. I'm not sure if they mention how long he's been awake but it's not unheard of for people maybe not as advanced technologically to see a new application of existing technology. And he's geared toward murder and mayhem so it makes sense that once he's started to understand the concepts (and he should be able to) that he'd be able to design new systems and weapons.

That was my take on it as well.

I saw it, and am still not sure what I think... the beginning was Awesome.

I'm going to see it again tomorrow so I'll update then

Spoilered thoughts:

Is it just me, or does the Enterprise appear impossibly huge? Maybe the TV shows had problems truly capturing the scale of these ships due to budget constraints, but the Enterprise seems twice the size of the Enterprise-D of the Next Generation.

Cumberbatch did well, I would like to see him back for a Wrath of Khan type film in the future. I still think the Reliant and Enterprise fight in Wrath of Khan is the best ship to ship combat scene in ST history.

That said, I enjoyed the movie immensely. Sure, it's not old Star Trek but old Star Trek died a painful death with Enterprise and Voyager and the last few Next Gen films.

I got the opposite feeling, and got away that the ship is fairly small.

Take the scene where the shuttle flies into the rear of the ship and how crammed it is with shuttle craft stacked in there.

Sgt_Scruffy wrote:
Is it just me, or does the Enterprise appear impossibly huge? Maybe the TV shows had problems truly capturing the scale of these ships due to budget constraints, but the Enterprise seems twice the size of the Enterprise-D of the Next Generation.

Cumberbatch did well, I would like to see him back for a Wrath of Khan type film in the future. I still think the Reliant and Enterprise fight in Wrath of Khan is the best ship to ship combat scene in ST history.

That said, I enjoyed the movie immensely. Sure, it's not old Star Trek but old Star Trek died a painful death with Enterprise and Voyager and the last few Next Gen films.

I liked Voyager! What did it do to deserve such hatred?


Also, I'll be honest, Spock's "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" was simply glorious.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/62468

First movie review that matches my own opinions on the matter.

Breotan- As I mentioned, I'm seeing it again and I'll update after if I feel the same way as that review. I was starting to feel that way, but now I'm not sure... I think they may have pulled it off. I'm going in with an open mind for the second time and will see what happens

Open minds are for the weak.

Breotan, you might like this one:

http://io9.com/star-trek-into-darkness-the-spoiler-faq-508927844

Lol that was somewhat of an amusing review. One thing that just stuck out to me after reading it. Khan beat down all those Klingons and the enterprise away team all at the same time but somehow Spock and uhura were to much for him? Does that seem odd to anyone else?

An angry Spock is pretty powerful, more so than a human. Uhura got the drop on him, and blasted him quite a few times with a phaser, and it still was barely enough. Oh, and he had just crashed a spaceship from orbit, so he may have been a little weakened by, you know, impacting with a planet.

From the review:

And we know this because Spock says “I had vowed never to tell you anything of your future because I want to live your own life and blah blah blah” just before adding “but Khan is an donkey-cave and here’s exactly how we defeated him.”

Old Spock never told them how they beat him, or anything beyond Khan being extremely dangerous and that defeating him came at great cost.

 wowsmash wrote:
Lol that was somewhat of an amusing review. One thing that just stuck out to me after reading it. Khan beat down all those Klingons and the enterprise away team all at the same time but somehow Spock and uhura were to much for him? Does that seem odd to anyone else?

When he was up against the Klingons he caught them by surprise and had his two super guns.
And Spock was super angry at that point AND Ahura did stun him about 10 times before he dropped.

I think the fact that Harrison transports from Earth to Kronos isn't that ridiculous. He used Scotty's algorithm from the first movie but improved it because he is a superhuman genius.

I think the point about being able to use the blood from any of the other 72 candidates is also a bit of a non-starter considering that McCoy had already created a successful serum from Khan's blood. Why would they risk it not working when they had Khan right there?

The one thing I didn't get is how the ended up back at Earth after being ambushed during Warp travel. I also don't understand where the rest of Star Fleet was when the Enterprise was being shot out of the sky by the Dreadnought. They are the only "plot holes" I have with the film.

I don't think Into Darkness is "lazy", I think Abrams genuinely wanted to address problems that fans had with the original movie in deviating from the official timeline. This timeline is a dark reflection of the Star Trek that we know, and I hope it continues for many years to come. Khan could definitely find himself in another movie, perhaps not in the next but certainly a fourth if there is to be one.

Hoping for a fully fledged Klingon War in the next film.

 Medium of Death wrote:
The one thing I didn't get is how the ended up back at Earth after being ambushed during Warp travel. I also don't understand where the rest of Star Fleet was when the Enterprise was being shot out of the sky by the Dreadnought. They are the only "plot holes" I have with the film.

When the dreadnought fired on the Enterprise and knocked it out of warp it was closing in on Earth. After that the ship was drifting towards Earth until it got caught in the Earth's gravity. Still, it is part of the problem the film had with relating time and distance.

 Ahtman wrote:
An angry Spock is pretty powerful, more so than a human. Uhura got the drop on him, and blasted him quite a few times with a phaser, and it still was barely enough. Oh, and he had just crashed a spaceship from orbit, so he may have been a little weakened by, you know, impacting with a planet.

From the review:

And we know this because Spock says “I had vowed never to tell you anything of your future because I want to live your own life and blah blah blah” just before adding “but Khan is an donkey-cave and here’s exactly how we defeated him.”

Old Spock never told them how they beat him, or anything beyond Khan being extremely dangerous and that defeating him came at great cost.

Not true.

I liked it okay. The beginning had a few wtf moments, and I hated the ending, but other than that.

I loved it. The ONLY problem I had with the movie is that the way they defeat Kahn seemed a little too... easy. Considering he's supposed to be a villain that is above and beyond, it just felt like it should have taken a little more effort than detonating the torpedoes after beaming them aboard.

I saw it last night. I liked it OK, but I didn't think it was great. I think the first one was a little better.

I do have some nits to pick:

1.) The scene with Alice Eve in her underwear was flat out the most gratuitous thing I've ever seen in a film not helmed by Joe Eszterhas. I think Alice Eve is very pretty, and her body is incredible, but it was an inappropriate scene that did nothing for the movie and in fact kind of took points away from it. I have no problem with erotiscm or nudity in general at all - I love boobs - but it has to have at least some kind of context, such as those aliens Kirk was bedding - that was fine.

2.) I asked earlier in the thread about the lens flare, and indeed, as I was told, it was not that bad. However there was one scene in particular where it was totally breaking immersion, again with Alice Eve - when she was talking to robocop and pleading for him to not destroy the Enterprise.... the blue lens flare was so extreme you literally could not see her face. What the F, guys. Someone needs to get JJ Abrams into a seat and clockwork orange his ass to averse him to lensflare.

3.) When Kirk "died". Look, that's... that's not going to work. No one at all thinks at any point you're going to kill off a main character, let alone James Tiberious Freaking Kirk. It's so impossible that the whole scene had absolutely no tensions. It's like killing off Batman 15 minutes into a movie, everyone knows they're not going to kill the goddamn Batman.

The action scenes were pretty solid. I thought Simon Pegg did a great job, as did Benedict Cumberbatch (although his menacing was generally at a 7, and we could have used him at a 9). Chris Pine did as well as Chris Pine is capable of. Zach Quinto was good as always.

 d-usa wrote:
Breotan, you might like this one:

http://io9.com/star-trek-into-darkness-the-spoiler-faq-508927844

Best review ever.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
...the way they defeat Kahn seemed a little too... easy. Considering he's supposed to be a villain that is above and beyond, it just felt like it should have taken a little more effort than detonating the torpedoes after beaming them aboard.

Too easy? Originally he was just a better than normal athletic human. Kirk might not be able to beat him in a straight up fight but a phaser should still take out Khan's genetically engineered arse. In this version he's practically a god who can't be beat by the likes of mortal men. Hell, Xena couldn't stop this guy. I was half expecting him to literally jump out of STID and lant in the upcoming Man of Steel, make Zod his b**ch, and pimp-slap the snot out of Superman just because he can.

 kronk wrote:
I'm assuming that while off scene, Old Spock told New Spock to use against him what he holds most dear or most desperately wants.

That is, at best, a guess that he said something more, which I don't believe he did.

I thought it was awesome from start to finish.

Characters - great
Story cool
music great
effects - cool

the only negative thing for me was the comedy Chekov and Scotty and his "ewok" friend - but I rationalise this is something that only he can see as he is drunk

Sulu was great - Carole / Alice Eve - lovely

There was a funny moment there where Kirk tells Chekov to go ahead and put on a red shirt and he swallows with grief as if he's been sentenced to death.

I actually really really really wish they'd have left kirk dead. How awesome would that be? They'd actually be doing something cool and exciting. Instead we get comic book death. Like that hasn't been done a thousand times to the dismay of everyone. Sure I love the guy who currently plays Spock, and find the guy playing Kirk kind of dull, but I think a Star Trek with the whole crew but no Kirk would leave the door open for some really interesting emotional and character development.

Killing James Tiberous Kirk be like killing Luke Skywalker. Kirk became the property of Death but Death got screwed over......think Death is pissed now...at Kirk.....Khan...writers....JJ Abrams.....film crew.....MCCOY

 LordofHats wrote:
I actually really really really wish they'd have left kirk dead

That would have been a better ending, even if we all knew that it wouldn't be permanent. Certainly better than being dead for five whole minutes.

 Ahtman wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
I actually really really really wish they'd have left kirk dead

That would have been a better ending, even if we all knew that it wouldn't be permanent. Certainly better than being dead for five whole minutes.

I agree.

Two weeks I think

 Breotan wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Breotan, you might like this one:

http://io9.com/star-trek-into-darkness-the-spoiler-faq-508927844

Best review ever.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
...the way they defeat Kahn seemed a little too... easy. Considering he's supposed to be a villain that is above and beyond, it just felt like it should have taken a little more effort than detonating the torpedoes after beaming them aboard.

Too easy? Originally he was just a better than normal athletic human. Kirk might not be able to beat him in a straight up fight but a phaser should still take out Khan's genetically engineered arse. In this version he's practically a god who can't be beat by the likes of mortal men. Hell, Xena couldn't stop this guy. I was half expecting him to literally jump out of STID and lant in the upcoming Man of Steel, make Zod his b**ch, and pimp-slap the snot out of Superman just because he can.

I also was wondering if they'd switched reels and I was getting a preview of Man of Steel as well. Khan is a bad MF... but he's still HUMAN. JJ went WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY over the top with Khan.