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2013/06/06 18:55:58
Subject: Re:Star Trek Into Darkness Opinions thread (spoilers inside)
Finally saw it. It was one of the worst movies of the franchise, if not the worst. Maybe Insurrection was worse, but it's close. Now, I thought first "new" Trek was OK. It was not a classic, didn't really have much of a Trek feel and with some gigantic black...er...plot holes, but it was respectable. However, with the new one, it was blatantly obvious they had no ideas whatsoever left. Everything in the movie, and I do mean EVERYTHING, was ripped off from previous movies or series. In some cases, from the very last movie!
There were huge plot holes:
Spoiler:
-super-warp-transporter which can instantly transport you through entire quadrant? Really? And it fits your pocket?
-Enterprise travels to Kronos in less than a day (and then travels back to Earth in 5 minutes).
-apparently, Neutral Zone goes right by Klingon Homeworld. It also appears to be really tiny, since Enterprise can stay on right side of it and still be within weapons range of Kronos. Seems like pretty useless buffer zone to me.
-I don't get why everyone seems so worried about a war with Klingons, as they seem to have no fleet, almost no defences on their homeworld and their military seems incompetent. Apparently even their patrol ships don't bother to report enemy contacts to upper echelons.
-Starfleet coordinate system seems ingeniuous, as just with four numbers you can pinpoint exact tiny region of space on a region many dozens of light years across.
-in aforementioned coordinates there is a super-secret military base, which is not guarded in any way: Scotty simply flies there with regular shuttle and lands without anyone noticing and gets on board the most secret vessel of the Starfleer. I take it back, Starfleet seems to have equal incompetence level with Klingons so there is plenty to fear for.
-Enterprise gets thrown out of the warp 'prematurely' - only to end up within Lunar orbit of the Earth. Man, how convenient. One would think that had they remained in the Warp even 5 seconds longer, they would have overshot Earth by several lightyears.
I don't even bother to list the ways previous Treks were recycled, only the most obvious:
Spoiler:
Climatic battle is between Enterprise and much larger, much more advanced ship. Enterprise has no chance unless its crew performs some miraculous boarding actions. Coincidentally, movie before this one had exact similar climatic battle. So did the movie before that one. So did movie before THAT one.
Geez, out of ideas much, guys?
Seems pointless after that to list things like way overlong, boring action scenes or way overlong, boring dialogue scenes to put 'tension' between the characters. Suffice to say that both the director and writers are incompetent in the way that they almost make Star Wars prequels look coherent.
Almost.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/06/06 20:05:54
Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker!
2013/06/06 19:11:40
Subject: Star Trek Into Darkness Opinions thread (spoilers inside)
Agreed completely, just didn't think it was that bad. I've seen Star Trek V. The humanity!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2013/06/06 19:29:06
Subject: Star Trek Into Darkness Opinions thread (spoilers inside)
I think the problem for some people is this fim was designed to apeal to lots of people with: cool effects, good acting from the main cast, fun story, great charcter interaction and humour - i thought it was superb - except for Scotty and the Ewok and Chekov as comedy - as opposed to Sulu who was great -"If you test me"
Insurrection on the other hand was a trekkie film and absolutely dire IMO - as bad as Nemesis - and these were the films that the new films are trying not to emulate.
Plot problems
Spoiler:
-super-warp-transporter which can instantly transport you through entire quadrant? Really? And it fits your pocket?
Yep - its star trek tecnobable - its normal and a plot device
-Enterprise travels to Kronos in less than a day (and then travels back to Earth in 5 minutes).
yep - they put thier foot down on their way back - cruising speen on their way there
-apparently, Neutral Zone goes right by Klingon Homeworld. It also appears to be really tiny, since Enterprise can stay on right side of it and still be within weapons range of Kronos. Seems like pretty useless buffer zone to me.
Is the Klingon Homeworld thier centre of power - maybe not - looks like Praxis has exploded and so mayeb they moved much of their population etc.......
-I don't get why everyone seems so worried about a war with Klingons, as they seem to have no fleet, almost no defences on their homeworld and their military seems incompetent. Apparently even their patrol ships don't bother to report enemy contacts to upper echelons.
Fair point - althouhg see previous and maybe the patrol ships were crewed by arrogant iridots posted to a backwater section of the Klingon planet due to being well arrogant idiots.
-Starfleet coordinate system seems ingeniuous, as just with four numbers you can pinpoint exact tiny region of space on a region many dozens of light years across.
In the context of a fun action film - who cares
-in aforementioned coordinates there is a super-secret military base, which is not guarded in any way: Scotty simply flies there with regular shuttle and lands without anyone noticing and gets on board the most secret vessel of the Starfleer. I take it back, Starfleet seems to have equal incompetence level with Klingons so there is plenty to fear for.
Fair enough - although why didn't they just fly into Mordor on the Eagles and drop the ring in that way..............also if you look like you should be there - usually you can get away with things -
-Enterprise gets thrown out of the warp 'prematurely' - only to end up within Lunar orbit of the Earth. Man, how convenient. One would think that had they remained in the Warp even 5 seconds longer, they would have overshot Earth by several lightyears
Plot demands - and cos its cool
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I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Insurrection on the other hand was a trekkie film and absolutely dire IMO - as bad as Nemesis - and these were the films that the new films are trying not to emulate.
Insurrection was indeed a Trek film - it felt like sloppily written 2-part episode of TNG. Nemesis, however, was pretty much from same mould as two "new" Treks, in fact the plot of Into Darkness was almost exact duplicate! This is big problem of Hollywood, they have absolutely no courage anymore to try any new ideas. Everything is recycled, rebooted, whatever. I bet that within 3 years we will have another Spider-Man reboot, another Batman reboot, probably also Twilight-reboot.
-super-warp-transporter which can instantly transport you through entire quadrant? Really? And it fits your pocket?
Yep - its star trek tecnobable - its normal and a plot device I'm pretty familiar with Trek technobabble, and they don't usully feature devices so powerful which are then casually ignored as nothing special. I mean, such a transporting device would completely transform entire quadrant, and it was treated as not a big deal, in fact it was implied it was invented by Scotty! And talking about teleportation, wasn't it hella-annoying that they constantly came up with lame excuses not to use transporters, it was used so often I pretty much began to laugh about it in the end. It was drinking game material.
-Enterprise travels to Kronos in less than a day (and then travels back to Earth in 5 minutes).
yep - they put thier foot down on their way back - cruising speen on their way there
One might think that Klingon homeworld is not quite so accessible as it's within minimal flight distance from Federation homeworld, but guess not....
-apparently, Neutral Zone goes right by Klingon Homeworld. It also appears to be really tiny, since Enterprise can stay on right side of it and still be within weapons range of Kronos. Seems like pretty useless buffer zone to me.
Is the Klingon Homeworld thier centre of power - maybe not - looks like Praxis has exploded and so mayeb they moved much of their population etc.......
Neutral zone is big. You have to travel through it, it contains lots of worlds - otherwise there would be no point in such a "neutral zone". You have to travel through it and it takes substantial amount of time.
This was gigantic incompetence from behalf of the writers, producers and director and showed they are totally incompetent. It was such an enormous blunder it alone was enough to ruin any believability of the plot. When Cameron directed Titanic, he didn't have the ship meet the iceberg 20 miles off Southampton.
-Starfleet coordinate system seems ingeniuous, as just with four numbers you can pinpoint exact tiny region of space on a region many dozens of light years across.
In the context of a fun action film - who cares
It stops being fun when it is clear that writers, directors or producers don't bother to get even simplest details right. If they don't care, I don't care.
-in aforementioned coordinates there is a super-secret military base, which is not guarded in any way: Scotty simply flies there with regular shuttle and lands without anyone noticing and gets on board the most secret vessel of the Starfleer. I take it back, Starfleet seems to have equal incompetence level with Klingons so there is plenty to fear for.
Fair enough - although why didn't they just fly into Mordor on the Eagles and drop the ring in that way.......
Sauron had air defences. Eagles were amongst his foremost enemies, he was prepared for them...
Whilst I'm at it, how about the items around which the plot circled around - the torpedoes. Thing is, those torpedoes were pretty compact. Freezer pods must have taken about 80% of their internal volume: yet they apparently were fully functional weapons - warhead, propulsion, targeting systems, whole shebang. Do Federation torpedoes have 80% of their volume empty space? How do you think say, AMRAAM would work if you took three-fourths of the internal stuff out from it and replace it with frozen Guinea pigs? Not too well, I should imagine.
.
