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So, fans of Eldar fluff/lore who have read this book... Did anyone enjoy it? I just finished reading it and I feel like I just read a literary, 40k version of an Eldar Anakin Skywalker for 408 pages that ended with... well, with nothing. Did the book even have an antagonist besides his own angst?

Ok, let me try again. I read this book, and did not enjoy it. I feel like it got a significant number of things wrong. Are the other two books in the series, Outcast and Seer, are they any better/different in feel to the Warrior? Granted it took me only three days to finish the book, but I'd rather not waste my week reading the other two if they're more of the same.

I thought Path of the Warrior was good: considering their difference and nature as a race, the protagonists character didn't grate too much with me.

But then I found Path of the Seer and Outcast progressively worse, and would advise avoiding them, particularly if you didn't like Path of the Warrior.

I liked Warrior and Seer as they gave an insight into the two seperate areas of Eldar society, but not as keen on Outcast as the protagonist was a bit of a whiny brat whose idea to solve the problem of space marines invading Alaitoc was to get on his knees and cry like a bitch in front of the marine commander.

An Eldar would never do that imo.

rohansoldier wrote:
I liked Warrior and Seer as they gave an insight into the two seperate areas of Eldar society, but not as keen on Outcast as the protagonist was a bit of a whiny brat whose idea to solve the problem of space marines invading Alaitoc was to get on his knees and cry like a bitch in front of the marine commander.

An Eldar would never do that imo.

And a Marine would never listen either IMHO.

I don't know, I just feel as though there were so many missed opportunities in the book. I can't really go into them in depth at the moment, but the presence of the Avatar seemed like a hollow point for example. Same with the appearance of the Phoenix Lords. Or the fact that reasons for actions taken by the protagonist seem rather one dimensional.

I'm not a huge fan of the Space Marine novels I've read thus far, but I feel just from a literary standpoint that they're "written better"

I liked Path of the Warrior, though I wasn't too happy with what happened to Korlandril at the end, since I was pretty attached to him. Nonetheless, I found his journey interesting and I suppose it was kinda neat to see the exarchs and Phoenix Lords in detail.

I'm also about 1/2 way into Path of the Seer and enjoying it as well. Though the protagonist is a bit of a brat, then again I don't think that's necesarrily a problem for the story. It's ok to have characters that run the gamut of personalities, and honestly I always thought "slightly whiny" fits eldar rather well.

They all seem to be highly introspective books, so the description of the antagonist being "his own angst" seems very accurate. Tbh I liked those parts and the everyday interactions with other eldar than the battles which I wanted to end quickly so we could get back to the interesting stuff. Then again I find battles to always be the least interesting stuff in 40k books (well the ones that happen on a battlefield, battling inner demons is fine by me), and the characters are pretty whiny, but that's kind of what I expect from an eldar: drama queens. So I can see why people may not like it, but I like the way Gav Thorpe presents the eldar psyche.

Perhaps this is why I had such trouble with the book: I don't see the eldar as whiny, at least I don't think they're supposed to be. Verbose? Troubled? Conflicted? Tortured? A little dramatic and theatrical perhaps? sure, I get that. But for a race as old as the stars they seem to have the gestalt maturity of a college freshman, and it shows in the way they process stimulus. Having these issues isn't the problem, their method of dealing with them is. You're right in saying that these books are highly introspective, but I feel like that's only done for the benefit of filler. They don't really "consider" options, they just kind of mention them before beating around the same issue for a paragraph and then decided to take the course that seems to have the least justification.

I liked Korl, granted it took me 250 pages before I didn't see him as Anakin Skywalker with pointy ears, but I feel like before he moved onto the next stage of his "training" he had some interesting character development. After that though I felt like it came abruptly to a halt.

Hmm, personally I never saw Wldar as wise that's why I used the term "whiny" but perhaps I was being too colloquial. Given their nature and heightned sense of emotion, I always imagined them as becoming very narrow-minded and obsessive, overly attached to trivial and grave matters whether it be a grudge, a profession, war, love anything really. In fact that's why the Path exists to make sure no eldar get's "stuck" anywhere. So when characters acted melodramatic over trivial things I thought it fit perfectly.

I also think the book is a good inversion of the "wise elf" trope. Considering the self-destructive actions of pre-Fall Eldar and modern Dark Eldar I thought it was rather fitting to see Eldar as childish, which is IMO a neat inversion for an ancient race. This take on the race fits the trope of "fey folk" (aka actual elves from pagan foklore) as child like and inquisitive, but mercurial and capricious as well.

Of course this is all just my take on it and I can see how coming from your perspective you would not enjoy the series. Is your vision of Eldar more like something "Tolkeinesque"?

That all being said I agree on Korlandril: sure he was a self-aggrandizing jerk for a while, who at best was comical in his flailing around with his peers (which is a good thing IMO was fun to read the Artist section of the book). However, I also found myself sympathetic to his descent into rage, of course sympathy is a very subjective thing and I can understand some people just not empathizing with the whole kernel-of-hate-expanding-into-encompassing-one's-whole-character theme. I feel like if as the reader if there wasn't some of yourself reflected in Korlandril, which is to say some dark anger hidden away in yourself, then he probably seemed like just a very angsty individual.

Also what do you mean by "Anakin Skywalker"? The analogy is lost on me, care to elaborate for a Star Wars noob?

deathmagiks wrote:
for 408 pages that ended with... well, with nothing.

It ends in Path of the Outcast. The three books really need to be read in succession to tell the complete story.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

deathmagiks wrote:
for 408 pages that ended with... well, with nothing.

It ends in Path of the Outcast. The three books really need to be read in succession to tell the complete story.

Agreed. My problem was I unwittingly read them in reverse order. D'oh!

I think they are great books in the sense that they give an insight into the Eldar life style, which is a subject never really broached upon. I did feel kinda let down by the series anti-climactic ending, but other than that I found them all pretty interesting. I found myself liking the characters, although I'm not sure if that's because they gave me information on their respective paths, or I actually connected with the characters. The endings of the book were nothing special, but everything until then was pretty solid I think


Von Chogg

 asimo77 wrote:
Hmm, personally I never saw Wldar as wise that's why I used the term "whiny" but perhaps I was being too colloquial. Given their nature and heightned sense of emotion, I always imagined them as becoming very narrow-minded and obsessive, overly attached to trivial and grave matters whether it be a grudge, a profession, war, love anything really. In fact that's why the Path exists to make sure no eldar get's "stuck" anywhere. So when characters acted melodramatic over trivial things I thought it fit perfectly.

I also think the book is a good inversion of the "wise elf" trope. Considering the self-destructive actions of pre-Fall Eldar and modern Dark Eldar I thought it was rather fitting to see Eldar as childish, which is IMO a neat inversion for an ancient race. This take on the race fits the trope of "fey folk" (aka actual elves from pagan foklore) as child like and inquisitive, but mercurial and capricious as well.

Of course this is all just my take on it and I can see how coming from your perspective you would not enjoy the series. Is your vision of Eldar more like something "Tolkeinesque"?

That all being said I agree on Korlandril: sure he was a self-aggrandizing jerk for a while, who at best was comical in his flailing around with his peers (which is a good thing IMO was fun to read the Artist section of the book). However, I also found myself sympathetic to his descent into rage, of course sympathy is a very subjective thing and I can understand some people just not empathizing with the whole kernel-of-hate-expanding-into-encompassing-one's-whole-character theme. I feel like if as the reader if there wasn't some of yourself reflected in Korlandril, which is to say some dark anger hidden away in yourself, then he probably seemed like just a very angsty individual.

Also what do you mean by "Anakin Skywalker"? The analogy is lost on me, care to elaborate for a Star Wars noob?

It is my understanding that Anakin Skywalker, in star wars episodes 1-3, was... just awful. Basically, if My Chemical Romance and Good Charlotte (bands) were all blended into a single character, it would resemble Hayden Christianson's (spelling?) resemblance of Anakin Skywalker, the boy who grew up to be Darth Vader. Personally, I find the characters of Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader to be so extremely opposite of one another that I flat out refuse to see them as the result of a character progression and separate them into two different characters. But I digress.

While I understand the inversion of the "wise elf" trope, I feel like it's... misplaced here. My understanding of craftworld eldar is the aspiration to the ideal of discipline, something I see as sorely lacking in this book by nearly every character in the novel aside from the exarch of the Deadly Shadow shrine. He alone met the concept I had when first opening the novel.

Here's the thing: You have exodite Eldar, which I understand to be rather simple and agrarian, attaining discipline through simplicity. Then you have the Dark Eldar, hedonistic relics of the Eldar empire trapped by their own depravity in so much that they must feed it as they do themselves in order to continue their existence, and thus value nothing aside from their own life. You also have the Eldar corsairs, which I feel would have been an infinitely better setting for the inverse trope you mentioned as they seem like the type to be fickle, unpredictable, and melodramatic. Lastly , you have the craftworld Eldar who I would have depicted as something far more... well, disciplined. Think Samurai minus the obvious Oriental tropes and influence. I don't expect a floating Rivendelle (spelling?) complete with a Lord Elrond, but I do expect to read something that makes the Eldar out to be a noble race, firm in their resolve to not fade into the annals of history, beset on all sides by ignorant foes. Instead, what I got was two forays into battle, one of which was finished in a wholly unsatisfying way (kills 1 ork, takes an axe to the gut), and the second which played out more like an effortless genocide of an imperial world caught woefully unprepared, something I'd expect from Dark Eldar.

Perhaps it's juvenile of me, but I was hoping for something a little more noble, more desperate, and yes, more awesome. Perhaps not as "Michael Bay" as the handful of space marine novels, but something to get me jazzed up about fielding my army when I play. If the fault is mine, fair enough, but I still feel the Eldar of Alaitoc were not represented well in Warrior (I play Ulthwe btw).

All of what you posted are fair points. I guess in a sense I was lucky to have my vision of the eldar match Thorpe's and so the depiction of the eldar didn't chafe me. Seems a matter of expectations then I got what I expected and you obviously did not and so we have contrasting opinions. Of course I don't think you, I or Gav Thorpe are the final arbiters of the eldar character and I don't think anyone one take on the race is anymore correct than the other, and that's all a good thing. Different voices create a more fully realized fiction in my opinion.

Thankfully one of the settings strengths is its flexibility and diversity like you illustrated with the different "flavours" of eldar. And perhaps you are right a different brand of eldar would have fit the characters better and perhaps craftworlder should be our "high elves". Then again I like the idea of showing all approaches to eldar life as being flawed; the vampirism of dark eldar, the aloofness of the exodites and the discipline of the path all equally flawed due to the innate nature of the eldar. Of course that's just my take on it. I wouldn't mind a more noble eldar story and I hope you find one to read yourself!

P.S. wrote this on my phone I apologize if it's all wonky.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Forgot to add if they went the noble approach I think the characters would be harder to relate to. But that just then ties back to your earlier point that these characters may have been better suited to a corsair setting rather than Alaitoc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh another addendum don't worry about seeming juvenile or anything you bring up valid concerns. Also who doesn't want to see their favorite faction look awesome?

I did read Path of the Warrior, but have yet to get into the other books as well.

I felt Path of the Warrior wasn't terrible. I think it did a good job of representing the Eldar mindset, but as most stuff is when referencing Eldar...far understates the ability of Eldar units of war.

Is Eldar Prophecy by Goto any good?

The 2nd half is much better then the first, the parts before he becomes a Warrior are unsufferably whiney.

deathmagiks wrote:
Is Eldar Prophecy by Goto any good?

Not if you like books that have a least a passing resemblance to the established fluff. It has such gems as guardians blocking the route of a bunch of warp spiders (who apparently forget they could just teleport around them) and the craftworld lead by a farseer who spends more time drinking than divining the future to name just two.

... Arguments of merit or lack of it aside for the Path series, are there any "good" Eldar books?

As with many trilogies, you won't see a resolution until the end of the 3rd book.
All 3 books take place over the same time period, each from different points of view.

I might rather have read an overarching story line, but the path series was enjoyable. Mostly because of the unprecedented close-up of life on a Craftworld, in an Aspect Shrine, as a Pirate, as a Pathfinder, Seer, Farseer, Harlequin, etc. As well as a glimpse of what happens on a Crone World and where the Eldar get their Spirit Stones.

I think the purpose of the series was to enlighten fans of the Eldar and give them more information to digest. As well as being interesting to read. I think it succeeded overall. The third book felt like it began to drag but I think I was just in a hurry to see how it ends, having been twice robbed of an ending with the 2 previous books.

I have to say, I thought the ending of the 3rd book was terrible.

deathmagiks wrote:
Is Eldar Prophecy by Goto any good?

You answered the question of it's quality with the identity of the author.

William King did one just called "Farseer" which is still my favorite Eldar based book.

The "Path of" series I really enjoyed, including the ending, which i wont spoilerfy here by discussing.