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OK, we ran into an interesting question last night.

SO, a squad of marines containing a Meltagunner is firing at my Avengers. My Exarch is the closest to the marines, and can be seen by the rest of the squad, but not by the meltagunner, a wall is between them. Like this:

M 0 0 0 0
--- 0 0
E
X X
XX X XX

If the marines resolve the meltagun first, can the meltagun wound be allocated to my exarch? Is he an "eligible target" for the "mixed wounds" group that is the S8 attack? Or does one of the X need to removed instead?

My thoughts so far:

First, you see if it can shoot

p13 When checking range, simply measure from each firer to the
nearest visible model in the target unit. Any model that is found
to be out of range of all visible enemy models in the target unit
doesn't shoot - his shots would not be not accurate enough to
hit anything."


Reading the rules, i'm not sure, cause you break those weapons into "mixed wounds" that have "different Strengths, AP values or special rules" But you do this AFTER you roll to wound! bottom of page 15. Then you go to:

Out of sight p 16 "If no models in the firing unit can see a particular model, then
wounds cannot be allocated to it, and must be instead allocated
to the nearest visible model in the target unit."

But maybe when you are checking range, as above, is when you determine who is the nearest model, and thus the first removed. Does the firing unit become two units for the sake of who is in range and visible?

Complex I know...what do you think?

1) Can the Meltagunner shoot? If he can see one of the Avengers, then yes.

2) assuming the Meltagun scores a hit and wounds against the majority toughness of the target unit, the wound goes into the pool.

3) There are Bolter and Melta wounds in the pool. The firing player chooses to allocate the Melta first.

What counts now is what the unit can see. The unit can see the Exarch, so the Melta wound goes on the closest model, the Exarch.

Of course, you will first try to Look out Sir the Melta shot. And if that doesn't work clearly you'll still get a 4+ cover save for the intervening wall..

Yeah, if the UNIT can see you, then all the models can fire at you, but if certain weapons are utilizing different profiles then the line of sight for cover saves are drawn from the actual firing unit majority. Only one melta, behind a wall, maximum cover save.

See also BRB page 15, top right.

Baktru - intervening units give a 5+ cover save. A wall likely gives a 4+ save, which is what I assume you mean

Anbutou - a model gains a cover save if a firing model grants them a cover save. No majority any longer

Nos: Yes I meant the wall. The most likely value for a wall sounded like a 4+ to me.

From the description by OP there is no intervening unit, the Exarch as joined the Avengers. Otherwise the question whether the Melta could allocate its wound to the Exarch would not come up.

Yes, the meltagunner can see an avenger on the farside of the unit, and yes the exarch is part of the unit

Then, also assuming the one Avenger the Meltagunner can see is within range of the Melta, resolving the meltagun wound first makes it hit the closest model, which is the Exarch.

It'll still probably just kill an Avenger though, as the Exarch gets a good Look Out Sir as an IC AND if he misses that still a 4+ Cover Save from the wall.

Baktru wrote:
Then, also assuming the one Avenger the Meltagunner can see is within range of the Melta, resolving the meltagun wound first makes it hit the closest model, which is the Exarch.

It'll still probably just kill an Avenger though, as the Exarch gets a good Look Out Sir as an IC AND if he misses that still a 4+ Cover Save from the wall.

Exarchs are not ICs. Just characters.

Baktu- the melta gun does not have to be in range of the exarch, the exarch just has to be in range of a firing model. FAQ to brb

Couple of things here...Hitting and Wounding have different rules, mixing these rules causes confusion.

Hitting;

-Must have LOS and range to a model from the target unit to 'hit' (Essentially, fire the weapon.)

M 0 0 0 0
--- 0 0
E
X X
XX X XX

In your scenario the red X would be to determine if the melta can be shot (as the closest visable model, here is where you check the range).


Wounding
-Must be the closest model.
-Must be within range of the firing units longest ranged weapon. (Once in the wound pool, the only range which matters to that pool is the longest range of the weapons fired)

So wounds will be allocated to 'E' first and be continued to allocate there until the model is dead.
However, in this scenario 'E' (and some of the X's by the look) is granted a cover save from '---' as he is +25% obscured from one of the models in the firing unit



From what I can fathom, anyway

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Baktu- the melta gun does not have to be in range of the exarch, the exarch just has to be in range of a firing model. FAQ to brb

Actually, whilst streictly speaking the Exarch doesn't need to be in range of the Melta, in the situation here it would have to be. But what I meant is, when deciding which models can shoot, the Melta had to be in range and LOS of at least one Avenger to shoot to begin with.

At the moment of allocation it doesn't matter indeed whether the Exarch is in range and LOS of the Melta, as long as it is in range of at least one marine and in LOS of at least one marine.

"as long as it is in range of at least one marine "
Which is where you are still wrong. At the time of allocation you only have to be in range of the longest firing weapon in the firing unit. NOT the range of the weapon that caused the wound you are currently allocating

As far as I can tell, nosferatu1001 has "disagreed" twice with Baktru in this thread, without actually disagreeing with anything Baktru actually wrote either time.