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Rumors are 9th edition in 2015. What has been your experience with 8th edition? Love it, hate it?

One thing I loved is Stomp, Thunderstomp. It was such easy changes but had a huge effect.

The combo of steadfast + megaspells + limiting power dice is always going to be tricky. I don't think they got the mix quite right, but I think they have the right ideas. The problem is, as long as there are army book spell lists, you will have laggers. If they wiped out all the mega spells from the BRB you still have Dread 13th, Maw, rancid visitation, etc. They fixed part of that by moving most magic items to the BRB. But they left it broken with spells. I think that was a mistake.

Whenever official measuring came in it was welcome. I know rule number -50 is play fair and such and such, but if you know a table is 4 feet long...I mean, it's just how the brain works.

I think they could clear up some issues with special rules and especially movement. But they could do that with FAQs too.

I think there should be more magic items and more diverse magic items. Now that the BRB is the big daddy, you find a lot of heroes using the exact same items. Like, "I'm the Ogre Slaughtermaster from a gazillion miles over there wielding my great great great grandfather's Fencing Blades." Vs. "I am the greater daemon of filth from realities beyond knowing...I'll give you two guesses what I'm carrying."

I think war machines could be cleaned-up too. Bolt throwers are suck. Cannons are pretty OP.

Too gimicky for me and starting to get more abstract - something that JJ always pledged to avoid.

Yeah I like 8th it is pretty good but a few things need fixing.

1. Magic Phase- Some of the mega spells torch whole armies so lets take the extra casting dice some use and make this much more eve. Ohh and lets make the miscast tabl;e a lot more painful 6 dicing should be a desperate tactic not a calculated gamble.

2. Fix bolt throwers and bring their power level up some.

3. Laser guided cannons need to scatter somehow. (Skaven can ridiculously abuse people with this.)

4.flanking cavalry needs to break steadfast.

I think 8th is perfect save for a few things. Here are the changes I'd make:

1 - Monsters automatically count as having X amount of ranks for determining steadfast (note: they do not gain rank bonuses from this). I'm not sure how high X would be, some playtesting would be needed. I'd say 2 or 3.

2 - Steadfast can be broken by a unit charging in the flank or rear that does more than X casualties. Again, I'm not sure what X would be. I'm thinking somewhere between 6-9.

3 - Cannons do D3 wounds. Additionally, characters in a unit that gain a LOS roll, automatically pass it when trying to avoid a cannonball

4 - The penalty for long range shooting is removed.

5 - Magic is toned down somewhat. I'm not quite sure how this would be done (as Duke says, it's pretty tricky). I would perhaps be inclined to bring the old limit for using dice back in (Wizard Level +1), but I'm not so sure.

Other than that, I'm a big fan of 8th edition and I hope it doesn't change much when 9th comes along!

Have mixed feelings on 8th;
Seems like one of the major overhauls was to make the game infantry centric, which was good and bad. Adding in steadfast to represent how a huge infantry block wouldn't break to inferior numbers is a good mechanic, however the current ruleset basically nerfed cavalry too much. A flank charge from a heavy cavalry unit would rout even the most well disciplined infantry regiments. Should change steadfast to be "unless flank charged by unit type cavalry, monstrous creature etc)

 captain collius wrote:
Yeah I like 8th it is pretty good but a few things need fixing.

1. Magic Phase- Some of the mega spells torch whole armies so lets take the extra casting dice some use and make this much more eve. Ohh and lets make the miscast tabl;e a lot more painful 6 dicing should be a desperate tactic not a calculated gamble.

2. Fix bolt throwers and bring their power level up some.

3. Laser guided cannons need to scatter somehow. (Skaven can ridiculously abuse people with this.)

4.flanking cavalry needs to break steadfast.

1. Very few spells hit more than 1 unit. I'd like to see more spells that do a little damage over a wide area, and a few more spells that hit every model in the unit. Both of these are good counters to MSU and Death Stars.

It's not the final product that I would in an "ideal" game by any means, but I'm having more fun playing this edition than any other.

There are a few things that I would really like to see tweaked or toned down a bit (for example, magic has too much reward for too little risk and I feel that disruption should negate Steadfast), but overall I'm quite happy with the game.

I like it 8th, but apparently the sales figures indicate that this is a minority opinion.

Steadfast does need something changed, I would agree; there isn't a huge incentive right now to take flankers. But I would also say that the core concept (strength in numbers) is fine. Just fine-tuning. Perhaps the easiest is a unit cap, which I see very commonly in Comp documents. If nobody could have more than 40 models, and steadfast was broken by flank chargers doing lots of wounds as The Shadow suggests, then I doubt that we'd have the same degree of griping about it.

I'd also like magic to be somewhat toned down, even as a TK player. There are spells which are just too powerful, and, in the attempt to present (poor) counters to mega units, remove too much of the tactics from a game. It also makes me want to take fighty characters less, when my opponent can just pie-plate him away. If I wanted to be sniped, I'd run the risk of a Warsphinx or something.*


* Actually, I wouldn't, but the Warsphinx is a garbage mount for many reasons, few to do with the rulebook.

 Charles Rampant wrote:
I like it 8th, but apparently the sales figures indicate that this is a minority opinion.

Exactly, anyone still reading/posting here probably likes it! But many people just faded away from playing in 8th...

I think the changes had the right idea, but had a counter-effect, too: now to get started, you have to buy/paint a gazillion models! (Even moreso than before) That, combined with the attrition of players who didn't like all the changes, has meant a much reduced player pool / amount of play, from what I have seen.

That varies by area, of course, but if you read the thread in N&R on fantasy, it certainly seems GW thinks fantasy is not selling well enough and is going to try to do something about it.

But with the current rules requiring so many models, and the core models of most armies being old sculpts that are priced way too high (with the price of orc boyz almost doubling when their book was re-done... or rather, the contents of the box being cut in half, which amounts to the same thing ) the entry level is just too high for new players, and even discouraging for current players who might want to try a different army or make an old army competitive in 8th edition.

All that said, I think 8th edition is fine. I'm just getting back into fantasy myself and am looking forward to playing it . But I hope that 9th edition brings rather radical changes, and makes the game a lot more accessible for more players (allowing people to use a variety of models in a single army is one way to do that, as is rumored).

I'm still amazed that WHFB exists in 2013. We aren't even in the computer age, we're in the smart phone age. I'm playing browser games. Pretty soon I'll be playing online games with the microchips embedded in my eyeballs--or butt.

I was in my local GW store recently and I stopped to look at some 40K models and I was like, man, look at all those flat surfaces. I think all you need is a can of blue spray paint and a gold sharpie and you're SM-compliant. It's certainly a lot easier.

If they made (viable) games for like 250pts and other ultra low values, it could be an entry point for new gamers. But continuously raising prices on such an expensive game seems counter-productive.

Have to agree there, the rising price means that if I want to do a new army (and I frequently do) getting much more from the rules from GW (and even then from an online retailer) isn't really viable for me.

That said, I'm finding a lot of mileage in playing online on Universal Battle- it's not as good as a physical game, but it's a pretty decent alternative that you can play from your own home without needing to buy any of the models at all.

The Australian tournament scene has died significantly since 8th ed. Even hardcore hobbyists are deserting the scene.

Somerset wrote:
The Australian tournament scene has died significantly since 8th ed. Even hardcore hobbyists are deserting the scene.

That seems to be GW overall though, not just fantasy.

Having never played any other edition I very much enjoy fantasy everyone who plays both fantasy and 40 k all agree that fantasy is better. We're after getting 4 new players in the last month as well. I do agree that cannons are to good at killing monsters tho. Every game I've played against lizards I've killed his stegadon first turn always rolling a six for the wounds. Magic I feel is fine. Lets I'm going up against a scaven slave army. How else am I supposed to win if I don't dweller the gak out of them.

The best games of 8th I've played were low point affairs.

I think the game could go a long way just by re-introducing upper limits on units (say 40-ish models)

I like 8th a lot. Everything I think is set up well and can all work well with or around everything else. One thing I really don't want to see though is the implementation of flyers. With a lot of new flying units, and there is potential for more to come, that in 9th Edition a flying type phase or set of rules will be made, and I do not want that to happen. I personally don't like 40k with these flyers, and it would ruin Fantasy.

 wana10 wrote:
The best games of 8th I've played were low point affairs.

I think the game could go a long way just by re-introducing upper limits on units (say 40-ish models)

You need to be careful with things like that though, 40 HE phoenix guard are still a tough nut to crack, but 40 VC zombies or skaven slaves is the minimum you need in most circumstances.

I'm not keen. It started well, but slowly died off as the big spells and stupid stuff making units disappear got tired pretty quickly. Add the design for armies looking quite similar now ("everyone must have monstrous cav and a big plastic monster kit added to the army book!") and other things began to look a lot more interesting.

WFB went from being game #1 to almost non existent at my local club.

Good step in the right direction. Exceptionally well-written army books so far (with the exception of the usual crap Mat Ward poops out), melee changes were good.

Movement got dumbed-down (loss of difficult terrain changed the gameplay a lot), magic phase is a disaster balance-wise.

Needs restrictions to work well on a competitive level, but in that case, really plays out well and makes for enjoyable games.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 wana10 wrote:
The best games of 8th I've played were low point affairs.

I think the game could go a long way just by re-introducing upper limits on units (say 40-ish models)

You need to be careful with things like that though, 40 HE phoenix guard are still a tough nut to crack, but 40 VC zombies or skaven slaves is the minimum you need in most circumstances.

Jono has the right idea, but the cap you need to implement should not be in terms of number of models, but rather in terms of points. So, perhaps say that no single unit can be taken if it costs more than X amount of points (not including characters who join the unit). The only problem is, I'm not sure how that would work in terms of explaining the ruling...

You could limit the point value % per unit. Though that becomes harder with characters. Maybe you just include them after the initial % check.

If they are going to reduce point values of games, they need a way to reduce min unit size as well. Otherwise you simply can't take some units.

We enjoy it a lot. I wish personally 9th wasn't arriving until early 2015. Changes may be good however.

Shrapnel, I don't think 9th is slated until 2015 from what I have heard, anyway.

Points caps on units are an odd thing. They can sometimes tend to make undercosted units just THAT much better, as less points-efficient units can't even be bumped up in size to compete.

Also, it tends to favor people putting tons of characters in one unit, effectively making it cost a lot more without actually doing so (as Duke implied above). Those are the 2 things I have seen dominate in "point cost limit per unit" events.

I would like to see a couple things:

1) Loose steadfast if disrupted. Suddenly, flankers, counter-flankers and Cavalry (As flankers) become pretty important. Guys should lose their nerve when surrounded.

2) Cause terrain to slow units again, but not quite so severely as previously.

3) Nerf the Uber-spells. These would no longer be needed to help check big units that are now stuck in terrain and panicking because they are surrounded.

4) Change "Thunderstomp" to "Trample". It sounds less like it was designed by a 6-year-old.

How I feel what they can do better:

1) Fix the Magic phase so we do not have the "LOL THIS SPELL KILLS ALL" nonsense and imbalances the game.

2) Take out Pre-measuring out of the equation. It kind of takes the fun out of it (my personal opinion). And makes the Guess Range weapons easier to hit than it should.

3) Tone down the Steadfast a bit so flanking and Cavalry matters now.

4) Fix terrain so it slows units again, but not as much in the previous editions as it was.

Then again, my thoughts on the issue that is.

I think steadfast needs some sorting. I don't think when my 3 ranks of corsairs hit a unit of 50 slaves in the flank and reduce them to 4 ranks, they should be steadfast.

Other than that, I think magic needs a little working. Stuff like Final Trans is far too damaging in uncomped. At least Purple sun has a chance of killing the caster, no matter how slim it may be.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 wana10 wrote:
The best games of 8th I've played were low point affairs.

I think the game could go a long way just by re-introducing upper limits on units (say 40-ish models)

You need to be careful with things like that though, 40 HE phoenix guard are still a tough nut to crack, but 40 VC zombies or skaven slaves is the minimum you need in most circumstances.

AFter reading some of the rumours in N&R about where fantasy is going I had the Warhammer Armies book from 3rd ed on the brain which is where this idea popped from. Maybe make it so that more elite units have a lower cap (20-25ish) whereas giant horde types (gobbos, slaves, skinks, zombies) stay up near the 40ish limit.

8ths style is what got me into fantasy to begin with. my only niggling issue is that some magic lores really should have been balanced a bit better. Along with magic rules in general. but other than that I think it's great fun. if it had echoed more like the previous recent editions i'd have just stuck to painting second hand tyranids and eldar in my spare time.

The deal with Final Trans and Dwellers and such is they directly scale with how many points you put in a unit.

If you got your 900pt HE caster unit with World Banner and such, if you get hit by one of those spells you are going to get smeared.

I think there should be multiple counters to any of these hard tactics. Because not every army will be able to field a direct unit counter. Like if Monsters only had a counter of war machines, what do you do if your army book doesn't have any?

But for all the steadfast hate, that simple rule made junky units actually valuable. Instead of Core being crap you had to take you can get good use out of them.

You don't want the pendulum to swing all the way back again where only Ogres and Chaos Warriors and Lizardmen are worth buying and you hide your packs of spearmen as far from combat as possible.