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I've managed to persuade a gaming buddy to try this out tonight. I'm basically gonna use the quick start rules plus lieutenants and guts rolls. Plus anything we feel comfortable with after that. Any pitfalls to watch out for?

A question on Lieutenants. I thought I read somewhere you dont have to reveal who is your Lieutenant, which would mean you dont declare when you are using his order as it would give him away. Is this correct because I cant find that info now?

Cheers

Yep on the order. Aside from the extra conditions on it, you use it just like a regular order.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And also, good luck with the game, hope the both of you stay.

Thanks for the reply.

I'm trying to get as much learned as poss before we start so I have another question.

In CC I cannot see anywhere that it says as the active player you must spend an order to attack in CC after a charge.

So I read it as the active player could use one order to make a charge of two short MOV skills to get into base contact and is not required to spend another order to attack.

Doesnt seem right, can someone point me to the page if not?

CC is listed as a short skill, so you use 2 short skills to get into CC you need to use another order to attack. You can use it as the second part of an order though (e.g. charge + CC).

But i cant see where it says you have to attack. I could move in to base and then force my opponent to use an order to attack in his active turn while i use the rest of my orders on other units.

True, but if you use both skills to just move into b2b, he can just SHOOT you as an aro (unless you are a camo marker until b2b, for example.) and you can't do anything about it.

You don't get a free attack JUST by moving into b2b. You have to spend an order to attack: CC to swing at them.
That said, you could just move into b2b on your last order, survive the ARO shot and, force HIM to reserve an order for his model that is in b2b (which reduces his reserve for everything else) in his turn.

But he can also use his orders to move other models in to attack you and then do co-ordinated orders of Attack:CC. He'll get +3 to CC for each friendly in b2b (unless you have MA ...) for EACH of them in the coordinated order.

Can he not shoot as an ARO anyway?

I completely missed where is says you gain an extra attack, can you give me a page number please?

This is the first time I've learned a completely new system in many a year!

Yes, he can just shoot you.

That's the hardest lesson for those who learned to game with GW.

In infinity, those who live by the sword generally get shot by those who don't.

 chromedog wrote:
Yes, he can just shoot you.

That's the hardest lesson for those who learned to game with GW.

In infinity, those who live by the sword generally get shot by those who don't.

Lol in the second ever game I played I had a Hassassin Regik drop like 4 inches away from a Myrmadion hacker thinking I would just charge in and slaughter the poor girl. So I say Move, CC my opponent responds with an ARO of shoot. A pistol at close range is +3 I have no cover so now she's hitting on a 16 I've got a CC of 14. Rolls are done, I get a 12, which I thought was decent. Of course my opponent rolls a 16 BLAM! Pistol shot straight to the face and the Regik falls over. That taught me everything I need to know about cc in Infinity. If you're sneaky and plan well it can be useful (I get cc kills all the time with my Fiday) but thinking you can just run in anywhere you please is just going to get you shot very quickly.

Make sure you have enough scenery on the table. 50% coverage at least and no line of sights from one deployment zone to the other.

cretinator wrote:

 chromedog wrote:
Yes, he can just shoot you.

That's the hardest lesson for those who learned to game with GW.

In infinity, those who live by the sword generally get shot by those who don't.

Lol in the second ever game I played I had a Hassassin Regik drop like 4 inches away from a Myrmadion hacker thinking I would just charge in and slaughter the poor girl. So I say Move, CC my opponent responds with an ARO of shoot. A pistol at close range is +3 I have no cover so now she's hitting on a 16 I've got a CC of 14. Rolls are done, I get a 12, which I thought was decent. Of course my opponent rolls a 16 BLAM! Pistol shot straight to the face and the Regik falls over. That taught me everything I need to know about cc in Infinity. If you're sneaky and plan well it can be useful (I get cc kills all the time with my Fiday) but thinking you can just run in anywhere you please is just going to get you shot very quickly.

Ragik has Valourogged, so you could keep going if you still had orders to spend on him.

Otherwise, yea, crit happens

One thing that came up was about coordinated orders.

If 3 models declare move and shoot against one enemy and the enemy declares dodge ARO what is the order of operations? Do all 3 combine shooting or is each one worked out individually thus allowing a successful dodge to move the target out of LOF of any remaining models?

Also it seemed strange that after a model goes unconscious it still adds an order to the pool and stays unconscious indefinitely. Is that right?

bobman wrote:
One thing that came up was about coordinated orders.

If 3 models declare move and shoot against one enemy and the enemy declares dodge ARO what is the order of operations? Do all 3 combine shooting or is each one worked out individually thus allowing a successful dodge to move the target out of LOF of any remaining models?

Also it seemed strange that after a model goes unconscious it still adds an order to the pool and stays unconscious indefinitely. Is that right?

I'm really not sure about the coordinated attacks and would be interested in knowing the answer as well. As for unconscious models, they no longer add an order to the order pool. So if you had 6 orders and one guy goes unconscious, you now have 5.

bobman wrote:
One thing that came up was about coordinated orders.

If 3 models declare move and shoot against one enemy and the enemy declares dodge ARO what is the order of operations? Do all 3 combine shooting or is each one worked out individually thus allowing a successful dodge to move the target out of LOF of any remaining models?

Also it seemed strange that after a model goes unconscious it still adds an order to the pool and stays unconscious indefinitely. Is that right?

All 3 models in the coordinated order shoot at the same time, so the model being shoot could dodge one guys in a FtF roll, while the other 2 get unopposed rolls. Even if the guy getting shot at, fire back he can still one target 1 of the guy while the other 2 still get the unopposed roll.

Noir wrote:

bobman wrote:
One thing that came up was about coordinated orders.

If 3 models declare move and shoot against one enemy and the enemy declares dodge ARO what is the order of operations? Do all 3 combine shooting or is each one worked out individually thus allowing a successful dodge to move the target out of LOF of any remaining models?

Also it seemed strange that after a model goes unconscious it still adds an order to the pool and stays unconscious indefinitely. Is that right?

All 3 models in the coordinated order shoot at the same time, so the model being shoot could dodge one guys in a FtF roll, while the other 2 get unopposed rolls. Even if the guy getting shot at, fire back he can still one target 1 of the guy while the other 2 still get the unopposed roll.

I'm not sure if this is true... I admit I'm new to the game though. Looking at the official Wiki under Dodge we see this. "In ARO, a Dodge roll will face all the shots of the Burst (B) or all actions done by the miniatures under Coordinated Order (Dodge all blows in Close Combat, dodge different opponents’ shots etc.)"

I think if you had 3 guys doing a coordinated shoot and the target could ARO he has two options 1. ARO shoot in which case you would do a BS F2F with one of the active models, while the other two get normal BS rolls. or 2. ARO dodge in which case you get 3 separate F2F rolls with each attacking model only getting half their burst. That's how I read it anyway. If this is correct when facing down three barrels simultaneously, it's almost always best to dodge and run.

 chromedog wrote:
Yes, he can just shoot you.

That's the hardest lesson for those who learned to game with GW.

In infinity, those who live by the sword generally get shot by those who don't.

Unless you manage to get behind someone, who can then only move to face you, then F2F the CC roll.

I had that situation come up in my last game. My brother got a Domaru Butai behind one of my Ghulam, so all I could do was turn in reaction to his move order, then F2F his CC attack.

Fortunately, his Butai rolled a 20 for his 19CC, so be basically tripped and fell into my Ghulams knife.

bobman wrote:I've managed to persuade a gaming buddy to try this out tonight. I'm basically gonna use the quick start rules plus lieutenants and guts rolls. Plus anything we feel comfortable with after that. Any pitfalls to watch out for?

A question on Lieutenants. I thought I read somewhere you dont have to reveal who is your Lieutenant, which would mean you dont declare when you are using his order as it would give him away. Is this correct because I cant find that info now?

Cheers

bobman wrote:I've managed to persuade a gaming buddy to try this out tonight. I'm basically gonna use the quick start rules plus lieutenants and guts rolls. Plus anything we feel comfortable with after that. Any pitfalls to watch out for?

A question on Lieutenants. I thought I read somewhere you dont have to reveal who is your Lieutenant, which would mean you dont declare when you are using his order as it would give him away. Is this correct because I cant find that info now?

Cheers

The Lieutenant order is simply an extra order, usable only by the lieutenant. It is used exactly as a normal order, so you don't say whose order it is (the lt). It can also be used to pass a guts roll or make a link team, in which case you need to notify that you are using the lt order.

And don't forget to roll the guts roll.

bobman wrote:Thanks for the reply.

I'm trying to get as much learned as poss before we start so I have another question.

In CC I cannot see anywhere that it says as the active player you must spend an order to attack in CC after a charge.

So I read it as the active player could use one order to make a charge of two short MOV skills to get into base contact and is not required to spend another order to attack.

Doesnt seem right, can someone point me to the page if not?

There is no charge. There is only a move.

If you declare move-move to get to base contact with the enemy, you don't need to hit. If you would, you couldn't do move-dodge to get to close combat.

You can also shoot as the second skill (or hack, drop a mine, forward observe and so on.

The reserved for CC applies only to the start of active turn.

bobman wrote:One thing that came up was about coordinated orders.

If 3 models declare move and shoot against one enemy and the enemy declares dodge ARO what is the order of operations? Do all 3 combine shooting or is each one worked out individually thus allowing a successful dodge to move the target out of LOF of any remaining models?

Also it seemed strange that after a model goes unconscious it still adds an order to the pool and stays unconscious indefinitely. Is that right?

One dodge vs all shooting.

Unconscious models don't generate orders even though they are on the table. V:NWI is an execption.

 -Loki- wrote:

 chromedog wrote:
Yes, he can just shoot you.

That's the hardest lesson for those who learned to game with GW.

In infinity, those who live by the sword generally get shot by those who don't.

Unless you manage to get behind someone, who can then only move to face you, then F2F the CC roll.

I had that situation come up in my last game. My brother got a Domaru Butai behind one of my Ghulam, so all I could do was turn in reaction to his move order, then F2F his CC attack.

Fortunately, his Butai rolled a 20 for his 19CC, so be basically tripped and fell into my Ghulams knife.

Butai should have used berserk. That +9 to CC means he crits on a 12 or BETTER and can't miss.
(can only be used in cc, and it must be against a CC skill or aro).

 kaapelikala wrote:



There is no charge. There is only move.

Page 145 describes the charge move.


Apart from the coordinated order issue the game went pretty smoothly. I like the dice system and it is certainly an involving game. I'm still unsure of where it says fire from coordinated orders is simultaneous though.

bobman wrote:

 kaapelikala wrote:



There is no charge. There is only move.

Page 145 describes the charge move.


Apart from the coordinated order issue the game went pretty smoothly. I like the dice system and it is certainly an involving game. I'm still unsure of where it says fire from coordinated orders is simultaneous though.

I think they just meant that a charge move doesn't really provide any extra benefit. Pg. 145 says "This term defines a Movement that finishes with two figures in base contact and engaging in CC. It does not provide any kind of additional advantage..." It really is just a Move+CC order. They just kinda gave it an extra name.

As for coordinated orders being simultaneous you'd have to give me an example of what you mean. On page 136 there's the following "Both Skills in the Order are used at the same time as part of a single Order. Therefore if a figure Moves and then Shoots to answer an Automatic Reaction Order (ARO) of his enemy, he can Shoot before, during, or after the Movement." That shows that both skills in an order happen simultaneously and I would argue because a coordinated order is really multiple models using the same order, all their actions happen simultaneously.

I think I'm just reading it differently.

It seemed to me as if 3 figures carried out a coordinated order to move and shoot they would declare all parts of the order. Then the target could declare dodge and after saving the first round of fire could in theory dodge out of LoF from the other firers. Without something to say the actions are simultaneous it would be possible to do that.

It appears I'm wrong in my understanding of it because everyone else interprets it as dice are rolled in batches, ie ftf, then any ARM of all firers at once.

I think I'm just misinterpreting the dice mechanic.

bobman wrote:
I think I'm just reading it differently.

It seemed to me as if 3 figures carried out a coordinated order to move and shoot they would declare all parts of the order. Then the target could declare dodge and after saving the first round of fire could in theory dodge out of LoF from the other firers. Without something to say the actions are simultaneous it would be possible to do that.

It appears I'm wrong in my understanding of it because everyone else interprets it as dice are rolled in batches, ie ftf, then any ARM of all firers at once.

I think I'm just misinterpreting the dice mechanic.

Yeah, I admit I'm new to the game so I could very well be wrong, but I know the way I played it was declare the full coordinated order (they have to declare both actions ahead of time if they're coordinating) declare any AROs, then roll dice. And in fact if you declared an ARO of dodge I think it would just be one set of rolls. For example three guys with a burst 3 weapons in a coordinated shoot would roll 2+2+2= 6 dice and you would roll your one dodge, then you could move half your first move value away... least that's how I'd play it.

Under dodge it says if performed in an ARO you roll against all shots in the burst. So would dodge each shot. I think I was just interpreting something that wasn't there tbh.

Cretinator is correct.

3 model equipped with combi rifles decide to declare a coordinated order against Heavy Infantry enemy

- Declared that you are activating those 3 models and subtract 3 orders from your pool
- Declare Move + Shoot and move the models into position
- Enemy declares Dodge ARO
- All skills conflict with each other so you have a massive FtF roll

The HI rolls one dodge and compares it to all enemy incoming shots.

HI is PH 13 and rolls a 9
Model A is modified BS 10 and rolls 3, 4
Model B is modified BS 14 and rolls 10, 1
Model C is a modified BS 14 and rolls 11, 20

End result is the HI getting hit by the 10 and 11. He must now make 2 armor saves and doesn't get to move his half move value.