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Hi folks!

So I've been working to shoehorn a Tau Riptide in to my 500pt tau patrol style group, and just wanted to check and see what folks think. So far, here's what I've come up with:

Cadre Fireblade (60)

Riptide w/ Ion Accelerator and EWO (190)

12 FW (108)

10 Kroot w/ Sniper Rounds (70)

HYMP Broadside w/ EWO (70)

Leaving me with 2 points left.

Original ideas when we had an Ethereal and 2 small FW squads were to use the remaining points to bulk up the FW squads, or take a third squad of 6. Or a Kroot squad of 10. OR drop the second FW squad to 6 and take a second Broadside and give it Targetlock instead of EWO. The constraints I'm working with are as follows:

FOC:
0-1HQ
0-1Elite
1-3Troop
0-1Fast
0-1Heavy

Vehicles have gimped AV, capped at 12 on any facing. So that makes HYMP much more dangerous on the table, I'm personally expecting Rhinos and MEQ/CSM and then likely a few Eldar players.

Thoughts/Suggestions?

Grey

I would like to point out that in most 500 point games with adjusted force org, and limitations on AV, there also tend to be restrictions on 2+ armour and multiple wounds. I would expect there to be a strong possibility that the Riptide and possibly even the broadside to be illegal as well.

I would definitely double check to make sure that you aren't missing a restriciton on multiple wound models / armour save.

This is a terrible thing to do to anyone and you should feel bad .

another option would be pathfinders for support, with bear minimum 4 you should at least ignore cover on one of your shooting.

that and im not too sure about the ethereal as there isnt really that much to buff up compared to mid/ high points game.

would rather see a dark strider which buffs at full distance and has some deployment and combat tricks. another alternative is the fireblade whos benefit is about as nice as the ethereal imo + extra marker lights

 akaean wrote:
I would like to point out that in most 500 point games with adjusted force org, and limitations on AV, there also tend to be restrictions on 2+ armour and multiple wounds. I would expect there to be a strong possibility that the Riptide and possibly even the broadside to be illegal as well.

I would definitely double check to make sure that you aren't missing a restriciton on multiple wound models / armour save.

I played with a group that didn't do this once. It only took 1 carnifex to get that rule added.

Here's the restriction:
500 Points:
• Force Org:
o HQ: 0-1
o Troops: 1-3
o Elites: 0-1
o Fast Attack: 0-1
o Heavy Support: 0-1
• Vehicles are AV 11 max (one dedicated transport can have an AV of 12 max)
• Vehicle upgrades that increase an armor facing may only raise the armor value to a maximum of 12 (this includes Necron Quantum Shielding)
• No allies
• No fliers
• No fortifications
• Psykers may use max one warp charge per game turn
• No Special/Unique/Named Characters
• Game played on a 4x4 table

I think I'm in the clear on the Riptide. And with the AV limits to vehicles my feeling (correct me if I'm wrong) is that MCs will likely be the breadwinners, along with Volume of Fire tactics.

That's a good idea on the Darkstrider, unfortunately the rules list no characters (not that you could have known) and I don't have a fireblade unfortunately. Perhaps they might let me use him as a "playing as" Fireblade, but I'd have to ask.

If I swap the Ethereal out for a Fireblade, that leaves me with 53 points. I could combine the two squads into 1 squad of 12 leaving me with 62 points remaining. Thoughts then? I wish I had some pathfinders, but no dice on that.. Perhaps 60 points of Kroot?

 akaean wrote:
I would like to point out that in most 500 point games with adjusted force org, and limitations on AV, there also tend to be restrictions on 2+ armour and multiple wounds. I would expect there to be a strong possibility that the Riptide and possibly even the broadside to be illegal as well.

The problem is, whatever rules you add to prevent stupidity just changes the definition of stupidity. With an AV11 max, I've seen green tide kanwalls + some grots dominate these sorts of things.

A better rule is Don't be a Dick. Don't give people a line they can go all the way up to as long as they don't cross it, simply ask they respect the concept of the event.

This army is going to be getting used against definite veterans, so I have little qualms about rolling with the best I can put out there.


My suspicion is they won't have any problems bringing the best they can within the confines of these rules.

Edit: Oh and additional question! Which would you guys suggest, Fusion, Plasma, or SMS on the Riptide? I'm thinking Plasma for more efficient killing of MEQ, but feel free to tell me otherwise! Since AV is limited, I'm not expecting I'll need Fusion.. but with the limited board size he'll likely be in range to use it more frequently. Also with the assault profile it gives him an extra attack in Melee correct? Which is unfortunately likely to happen on a 4x4 board, I would assume with the intention of bogging down the Riptide.

 Redbeard wrote:
The problem is, whatever rules you add to prevent stupidity just changes the definition of stupidity. With an AV11 max, I've seen green tide kanwalls + some grots dominate these sorts of things.

A better rule is Don't be a Dick. Don't give people a line they can go all the way up to as long as they don't cross it, simply ask they respect the concept of the event.

Absolutely, I always advocate for totally unrestricted 500 point games. I firmly believe that often times these rules just end up helping the armies are already the most powerful at this points level, Guard, Wolves, etc, and making them stronger while at the same time gimping Eldar or Tyranid lists which are already going to have problems. I merely wanted to point out that limits on Save and Wounds tend to be common things in an event that also limits armour values, something I wanted the OP to be aware of. I agree with you 100%.

To Emphasize another point Redbeard makes, you need to look at your list and ask yourself how are you going to deal with 60+ orc shoota Boyz- before they stroll to within 18 inches of you and unload with shootaz. Unless your opponent is silly and doesn't know what 2 inch coherancy is, your Riptide will not deal with them in adaquet numbers before they get to dakka and eventually charge range.

I would drop the second group of fire warriors and run a group of kroot with sniper rounds and a shaper..

No worries guys, wouldn't post here if I didn't expect some gameplay and advocacy suggestions

Akaean that's a great point regarding a tide army (of either nids or orc) now if I'm facing a 500pt orc army, how many units of how many orcs (assuming he goes horde and not some form of mech... which why wouldn't he right?) do I need to be prepared to deal with?

At the volume of fire side of things, I would likely want my riptide with SMS, and I'd be novacharging for either ordenance shots or for ripple fire with SMS. Without a Stim I don't dare take Novacharge on the heavy burst cannon or in 3 rounds it becomes fairly likely I'll destroy my own riptide!

The HYMP Broadside can, from what little backfield I have, lay down quite a lot of shots each turn. And with the Fireblade my FWs should get 2 solid turns of shooting (1 if I'm unlucky) correct? 2 shots out to 30" and 3 shots within 15"? What else do I/should I use? Perhaps a forward line of 10 kroots?

Seems like a hard matchup for any army.

Ok I've updated the original post to reflect the various suggestions. I like the idea of swapping the Ethereal out for the Cadre Fireblade, and I think if I do that I do myself no favors if I go with anything less than 12 FWs. That leaves me space for a 10man squad of Kroot with sniper rounds. No room for a Shaper though, or for a Hound to get the hound's initiative or Acute Sense special rule.

Thoughts? Perhaps drop 1 FW to get in 2 hounds?

On a 4x4 board out flank wont help that much. should keep it simple and use the kroot as bubble wrap and support for your riptide, or infiltrate them out as a distraction

 Desubot wrote:
On a 4x4 board out flank wont help that much. should keep it simple and use the kroot as bubble wrap and support for your riptide, or infiltrate them out as a distraction

Question Desu. Since the Riptides have JSJ, and wouldn't get any cover save (not that you'd need it with a 2+ armor and 5/3+ Invuln) from being behind them. Shouldn't, with JSJ, the user be able to keep the Riptide reasonably far away from any assaulters? Or at least, as far back as could be expected. Also, I wouldn't want to even remotely risk getting multi-charged with a Riptide, sounds like a great way to get swept and lose my Riptide for really a crummy reason!

I was thinking the Kroot as less "bubble wrap" but more as a forward road bump to getting to my Firewarriors, perhaps exactly 6" up to limit the chance for a consolidated/moving assault that nails both squads and to get a solid killing field up to 30" forward of my FW line. Meanwhile the Broadside can anchor on either side of this double line, and the Riptide roams/JSJ around ahead of the line causing issues and doing its best to keep from being caught up in assault.

I dunno at 500pts but normal troops can move up to 9-10" ish if they don't shoot. usually should take something like 3 turns to get into assault range if you sit way back. but that is dependent on the individual models.

probably 2 turns for jump troop/bikes. 1 turn of getting shot at with death wing 1 turn of full out and a turn of getting shot with troop in a transport etc.

at least by bubble warping /speed bump you can prevent them from getting into combat , then jump away during your turn for another turn of shooting later. its basically the same thing.

 akaean wrote:

To Emphasize another point Redbeard makes, you need to look at your list and ask yourself how are you going to deal with 60+ orc shoota Boyz- before they stroll to within 18 inches of you and unload with shootaz. Unless your opponent is silly and doesn't know what 2 inch coherancy is, your Riptide will not deal with them in adaquet numbers before they get to dakka and eventually charge range.

I dunno, I like the riptide in this scenario actually. The orks need 5s to hit, 6's to wound, and a 2+ save. That's an average of roughly 1 wound per 100 shots. Meanwhile, the overcharged accelerator can drop pie plates, not to mention firewarriors helping. 60 shootaboyz is pretty much the entire 500 points for orks if they take PK nobs, which means they could very well spend 5 whole turns shooting that riptide without finishing it off.

Ok feeling pretty good about this list so far.

Any other potential threats I should keep an eye out for? I'd imagine poison weapons or Monster Hunter could cause some issues if it allowed an opponent to quickly remove the Riptide.

 Redbeard wrote:

 akaean wrote:

To Emphasize another point Redbeard makes, you need to look at your list and ask yourself how are you going to deal with 60+ orc shoota Boyz- before they stroll to within 18 inches of you and unload with shootaz. Unless your opponent is silly and doesn't know what 2 inch coherancy is, your Riptide will not deal with them in adaquet numbers before they get to dakka and eventually charge range.

I dunno, I like the riptide in this scenario actually. The orks need 5s to hit, 6's to wound, and a 2+ save. That's an average of roughly 1 wound per 100 shots. Meanwhile, the overcharged accelerator can drop pie plates, not to mention firewarriors helping. 60 shootaboyz is pretty much the entire 500 points for orks if they take PK nobs, which means they could very well spend 5 whole turns shooting that riptide without finishing it off.

I suppose, I always figure that in a match up like that though, the Orks will just ignore the Riptide. They don't need to kill it to win, and indeed due to the high toughness and good armour save should probably be the last thing they deal with. Were I playing Orks, I would totally ignore the Riptide, Dakka the Fire Warriors and Kroot while walking up to the broadside, and rely on bodies to whither the storm. Its only a 4x4 board, its not like there is much room to hide from 60 Orks- especially agaisnt a mostly foot slogging list. Also note that the Tau list doesn't afford many Marker Lights, meaning the KFF that will likely be there to give most of the Orcs a cover save will effective.

Where the Riptide I believe will excell would be in killing Marines, Eldar, and Dark Eldar lists which rely on multiple small elite units in low point games. Since those armies don't have the bodies to absorb the Riptide's low AP fusilage.

I think the best way to build the list imho would be to actually drop the Broadside, and really focus on anti infantry fire power. the Riptide will handel a match up vs most elite armies by itself, the rest of your army should dedicate itself to dealing with Hordes.

Fair enough akaean. Question being then, if I remove the Broadside for 70 points what do I plug in in its place that fills the role. I have no more elite/HQ slots left, and 1 Troop 1 Fast and 1 Support slot to work with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any thoughts folks on things I need to worry about? This is also part of a painting challenge so whatever my list is I need to assemble and paint it by the end of the month Always fun when your local gaming store does something like this.

But I'm feeling good about this list, and the feedback was great so far!